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The Stock Market thread: BUY! BUY! BUY! Sell, sell, sell...

Re: The Stock Market thread: BUY! BUY! BUY! Sell, sell, sell...

LLY now dropping. Looks like the excitement of the announcement has subsided, and I wouldn't be surprised if went down to 50. Although I didn't max out, I got out at a good time.

Yes you did. If it was me-i would simply watch it for a while and let the market for it stabilize-then think about buying in again. But then again I do like the yield and have considerable information at my disposal about the future pipeline for drugs in the major companies. I watch LLY, PFE and BMY all the time. Currently I only own BMY. I cannot say I have made a monster amount in the drug companies but I have not lost anything and during the time I have owned them have cashed quite a bit in dividends.
 
Re: The Stock Market thread: BUY! BUY! BUY! Sell, sell, sell...

Yes you did. If it was me-i would simply watch it for a while and let the market for it stabilize-then think about buying in again. But then again I do like the yield and have considerable information at my disposal about the future pipeline for drugs in the major companies. I watch LLY, PFE and BMY all the time. Currently I only own BMY. I cannot say I have made a monster amount in the drug companies but I have not lost anything and during the time I have owned them have cashed quite a bit in dividends.

Obviously you aren't doing it now because you need to live off the dividends, but when you were still working, did you participate in a DRIP, whether your broker did it automatically, or you had to manually get it? I don't like to do it with some of my investments because I need to sacrifice principal to avoid paying a penalty yet still make money. I will consider doing it on my long-term investments (SCCO, SB, debating it on the royalty trusts), but other investments it just isn't worth it to me.
 
Re: The Stock Market thread: BUY! BUY! BUY! Sell, sell, sell...

Obviously you aren't doing it now because you need to live off the dividends, but when you were still working, did you participate in a DRIP, whether your broker did it automatically, or you had to manually get it? I don't like to do it with some of my investments because I need to sacrifice principal to avoid paying a penalty yet still make money. I will consider doing it on my long-term investments (SCCO, SB, debating it on the royalty trusts), but other investments it just isn't worth it to me.

I am still working some-but only as a consultant. The hustle and bustle of the office practice is something I miss though. I did do some automatic dividend reinvesting with some of the bond funds i had. My advisor (and boy did I ever need one-a doctor may know medicine but is taught nothing about finance at all) is one who really individualizes for each client. We speak often-he knows how much my life has changed and we have completely altered how and what we invest in. I have been with him for 20+ years. I have always had a conservative side-I hate to risk much and i am not a big time gambler. I figured i worked hard and long for what i had and did not want to risk losing it. I started realtively young and had time on my side-plus I was fortunate that the market had some very good years during that span. But as you put it in previous posts-you have to just be careful and not get greedy. Bulls and bears you know-pigs and chickens etc. I still am optimistic enough to feel that I have enough years left that I need to look for some growth-but as each year passes-I am more and more content with preservation of capital and yield. Thinking back when i was your age-I would be a very different investor for 2 reasons. One of course is that you have lots of years to make up for any downturns and mistakes. The other is simply that the world is a different place now. Look at real estate-40 years ago you almost could not go wrong buying anything. Everything was a good investment and surely you would make a profit on residential or commercial stuff. It seemed like it would never end. But now-I don't know that the real estate market will ever be the same. Some are saying 10 years from now, some say 20-I am not sure it will ever be like it was. Similarly with the stock market-you have to be vigilant-you have to watch. Nothing can be just left alone. Things happen too fast and the country and the world are very different places. I think it is just so much harder now to know what to do. You have the talking heads on CNBC and Bloomberg and the influence of the internet. I read your postings-you seem to have a very good handle on things and the right approach.
 
Re: The Stock Market thread: BUY! BUY! BUY! Sell, sell, sell...

I am still working some-but only as a consultant. The hustle and bustle of the office practice is something I miss though. I did do some automatic dividend reinvesting with some of the bond funds i had. My advisor (and boy did I ever need one-a doctor may know medicine but is taught nothing about finance at all) is one who really individualizes for each client. We speak often-he knows how much my life has changed and we have completely altered how and what we invest in. I have been with him for 20+ years. I have always had a conservative side-I hate to risk much and i am not a big time gambler. I figured i worked hard and long for what i had and did not want to risk losing it. I started realtively young and had time on my side-plus I was fortunate that the market had some very good years during that span. But as you put it in previous posts-you have to just be careful and not get greedy. Bulls and bears you know-pigs and chickens etc. I still am optimistic enough to feel that I have enough years left that I need to look for some growth-but as each year passes-I am more and more content with preservation of capital and yield. Thinking back when i was your age-I would be a very different investor for 2 reasons. One of course is that you have lots of years to make up for any downturns and mistakes. The other is simply that the world is a different place now. Look at real estate-40 years ago you almost could not go wrong buying anything. Everything was a good investment and surely you would make a profit on residential or commercial stuff. It seemed like it would never end. But now-I don't know that the real estate market will ever be the same. Some are saying 10 years from now, some say 20-I am not sure it will ever be like it was. Similarly with the stock market-you have to be vigilant-you have to watch. Nothing can be just left alone. Things happen too fast and the country and the world are very different places. I think it is just so much harder now to know what to do. You have the talking heads on CNBC and Bloomberg and the influence of the internet. I read your postings-you seem to have a very good handle on things and the right approach.

Thanks. I take a lot of inspiration from my uncle who worked a small shop job that would be considered part-time today for over 30 years, but made his money in the market. I didn't necessarily like that he would always watch CNBC and CNNFN whenever I visited him (obviously CNNFN has since folded, gosh darn commies, and many TV network distributors replaced it with Bloomberg, FOX Business is now available and was even on RPI's TV listing when I was there), heck I wrote a song about it when I was young, and even now I don't watch it all that often, but I keep a good eye on it for any potential short-term or long-term plays. I don't like playing the penny stocks because that's the gambling hall, but I will go for the dollar stocks after checking up on particulars. Right now I only play dividend stocks (with exception to something VERY short term), but this may change after Taxmageddon since that advantage will be gone. I'm cool with managing my own investments (I do have a minor in Economics), and have done decently, even if I had a huge advantage in starting at March 2009.
 
Re: The Stock Market thread: BUY! BUY! BUY! Sell, sell, sell...

Thanks. I take a lot of inspiration from my uncle who worked a small shop job that would be considered part-time today for over 30 years, but made his money in the market. I didn't necessarily like that he would always watch CNBC and CNNFN whenever I visited him (obviously CNNFN has since folded, gosh darn commies, and many TV network distributors replaced it with Bloomberg, FOX Business is now available and was even on RPI's TV listing when I was there), heck I wrote a song about it when I was young, and even now I don't watch it all that often, but I keep a good eye on it for any potential short-term or long-term plays. I don't like playing the penny stocks because that's the gambling hall, but I will go for the dollar stocks after checking up on particulars. Right now I only play dividend stocks (with exception to something VERY short term), but this may change after Taxmageddon since that advantage will be gone. I'm cool with managing my own investments (I do have a minor in Economics), and have done decently, even if I had a huge advantage in starting at March 2009.

When i first started i felt overwhelmed. I made a very decent living in Medicine and getting an RPI degree helped in ways only an RPI graduate would understand. I was very fortunate to find someone who not only advised-but taught. There is just so much out there. Just avoid the touts and those who suggest with an ulterior motive. I have shifted to dividend instruments as my hedge against a downturn-earning decent yield allows you to hold some things that might be losing a bit of money for you since at the same time they are earning some. I learned quickly though that for each percentage point of yield above treasury interest, you are adding a corresponding amount of risk. The key for me is diversity. No matter what I have-i spread it out among as many industries and different kinds of things as possilbe. Some bonds (in all different industries) some stocks (in different sectors) some funds (again in different sectors) some metals (all pretty much in gold and platinum and some precious stones) some REITs (again different kinds) etc. The one thing they all have in common-all have some sort of yield. Overall averaging about 7% which means I must have some fairly risky items at 11% but much more in safer (but of course still risky) 6% and less. For every GGN or QRE with high yield (and risk) I have much more DTK or DTT with less yield and risk. My favorite-I love to find preferreds in decent rated companies (I'll accept BB or better) that sell for under par (25 or less) and collect the yield and then allow them to call them at par for a small gain on top of the yield. It isn't very exciting I'll admit-but earning 7% overall while banks are offering me 1% on CDs has allowed me to grow my assets nicely. If the situation changes and other investments start to shine I am always ready. The other key is managing your life and careful planning as to how you want to live. I love nice jewelry and German cars-that are my only vices. Outside of that we live modestly-vacations and travel mean little to us. We have no children as expenses (my daughter is grown and entirely self sufficient). I have numerous friends who make tons of money-and yet have nothing to show for any of their hard work except maybe a big house and boat with huge mortgages on them and paying incredible real estate taxes. They are still working (and trust me-not because they enjoy it) well past age 70 while Jenny and I semi retired at 53. It depends a lot on how you want to live and what is important to you. You not only have the right ideas, you are starting even earlier than I did.
 
Re: The Stock Market thread: BUY! BUY! BUY! Sell, sell, sell...

When i first started i felt overwhelmed. I made a very decent living in Medicine and getting an RPI degree helped in ways only an RPI graduate would understand. I was very fortunate to find someone who not only advised-but taught. There is just so much out there. Just avoid the touts and those who suggest with an ulterior motive. I have shifted to dividend instruments as my hedge against a downturn-earning decent yield allows you to hold some things that might be losing a bit of money for you since at the same time they are earning some. I learned quickly though that for each percentage point of yield above treasury interest, you are adding a corresponding amount of risk. The key for me is diversity. No matter what I have-i spread it out among as many industries and different kinds of things as possilbe. Some bonds (in all different industries) some stocks (in different sectors) some funds (again in different sectors) some metals (all pretty much in gold and platinum and some precious stones) some REITs (again different kinds) etc. The one thing they all have in common-all have some sort of yield. Overall averaging about 7% which means I must have some fairly risky items at 11% but much more in safer (but of course still risky) 6% and less. For every GGN or QRE with high yield (and risk) I have much more DTK or DTT with less yield and risk. My favorite-I love to find preferreds in decent rated companies (I'll accept BB or better) that sell for under par (25 or less) and collect the yield and then allow them to call them at par for a small gain on top of the yield. It isn't very exciting I'll admit-but earning 7% overall while banks are offering me 1% on CDs has allowed me to grow my assets nicely. If the situation changes and other investments start to shine I am always ready. The other key is managing your life and careful planning as to how you want to live. I love nice jewelry and German cars-that are my only vices. Outside of that we live modestly-vacations and travel mean little to us. We have no children as expenses (my daughter is grown and entirely self sufficient). I have numerous friends who make tons of money-and yet have nothing to show for any of their hard work except maybe a big house and boat with huge mortgages on them and paying incredible real estate taxes. They are still working (and trust me-not because they enjoy it) well past age 70 while Jenny and I semi retired at 53. It depends a lot on how you want to live and what is important to you. You not only have the right ideas, you are starting even earlier than I did.

Amen to diversification. Even when I started doing stocks, I was diversified. SLB, NTRI, and F were my original choices; I think there was one other. No sense in putting all your eggs in one basket, because look what happened to the GM basket in 2008. The only time I won't do that sort of diversification is when I am investing in a market ETF or mutual fund (SPY, VTSMX, or something similar) because it's already diversification in and of itself. I keep the pre-tax 401k in the S&P 500 and commodities since that's the place to be with all of these QEs, Twists, and other Fed actions to tax the people through inflation. Once Bernanke's done messing around, I'll probably head back to S&P 500. Obviously my vices are blackjack and craps, along with road trips for hockey games, but other than that not much. I'm a single apartment dweller with no debt, so I can afford to put a bunch of money towards the market. Most of my friends are getting married, buying houses, partying, and I'm fairly simple. The best way to make money is to not spend it. Sure, people might get ticked that it's all I like to talk about, but hey, I find this sort of stuff interesting.
 
Re: The Stock Market thread: BUY! BUY! BUY! Sell, sell, sell...

Most of my friends are getting married, buying houses, partying, and I'm fairly simple. The best way to make money is to not spend it. Sure, people might get ticked that it's all I like to talk about, but hey, I find this sort of stuff interesting.

You just summarized by entire outlook. My father was the brightest man i ever knew-he was not college educated as the family with 4 boys just could only afford to send one to college. But he read-constantly and everything. His advice to me way back was exactly what you just said. He also said there is nothing wrong with marrying a rich woman(which of course i was not smart enough to do):). But even with funds-diversify them into completely different kinds and industries. And always remember nothing is sacred or written in stone. My biggest losses ever were in GM securities (mostly bonds). Who could ever imagine a bankruptcy-and even then-bondholders should have been high on the list to receive any monies allocated.
I have suffered considerable losses this week-yesterdy and today were brutal. But it happens-it is never a straight up path. But during a week like this I take some solace in the 7% yield which is still coming in. It appears that the talk of possible rising inflation and interest rates are affecting the bond funds especially-PIMCO funds are pretty much down 4-8% in 2 days across the board. is this the beginning of something? or is it a chance to buy in and get high yields and sit on them? Who knows-but this is just one of many things to watch.
 
Re: The Stock Market thread: BUY! BUY! BUY! Sell, sell, sell...

You just summarized by entire outlook. My father was the brightest man i ever knew-he was not college educated as the family with 4 boys just could only afford to send one to college. But he read-constantly and everything. His advice to me way back was exactly what you just said. He also said there is nothing wrong with marrying a rich woman(which of course i was not smart enough to do):). But even with funds-diversify them into completely different kinds and industries. And always remember nothing is sacred or written in stone. My biggest losses ever were in GM securities (mostly bonds). Who could ever imagine a bankruptcy-and even then-bondholders should have been high on the list to receive any monies allocated.
I have suffered considerable losses this week-yesterdy and today were brutal. But it happens-it is never a straight up path. But during a week like this I take some solace in the 7% yield which is still coming in. It appears that the talk of possible rising inflation and interest rates are affecting the bond funds especially-PIMCO funds are pretty much down 4-8% in 2 days across the board. is this the beginning of something? or is it a chance to buy in and get high yields and sit on them? Who knows-but this is just one of many things to watch.

Taxmageddon could have something to do with it. However, looking at the S&P 500 year-to-year, with the exception of 2008 and somewhat 2007, there has been a good rally at the end of this month. My advice would be to start buying up some stocks, ones which you anticipate will have some good 3rd quarter earnings reports. If they miss, you can always sell. If they're a hit, play accordingly. If it's a new stock you went with, obviously sell because you decided to play the earnings. If it's a long-term, you probably picked a good time to buy.
 
Re: The Stock Market thread: BUY! BUY! BUY! Sell, sell, sell...

Taxmageddon could have something to do with it. However, looking at the S&P 500 year-to-year, with the exception of 2008 and somewhat 2007, there has been a good rally at the end of this month. My advice would be to start buying up some stocks, ones which you anticipate will have some good 3rd quarter earnings reports. If they miss, you can always sell. If they're a hit, play accordingly. If it's a new stock you went with, obviously sell because you decided to play the earnings. If it's a long-term, you probably picked a good time to buy.

I used to be very wary of september and october-most years those 2 months were not very good for me. not so sure any more that this holds true. I do always expect December and January to be positive months for me as end of year and beginning of year pension money gets deployed into the market. But now I do not put as much emphasis on this as world events and changes in the US economy just seem to happen at warp speed at at any time. This year we have to add in the effect of the election. I have spent a lot of time agonizing over what effects it could have on me only to come to the conclusion that if i remain vigilant-it really shouldn't matter all that much. I am just proceeding as if my taxes will go up (I am sure that will happen sooner or later) and that my deductions will be more limited. i just include tax planning into the rest of my financial world. I worked hard for what i have and just try to protect it and make the most of it. I resent when others tell me how lucky I am-I just tell them I agree and that the harder i work at it, the luckier I get.
 
Re: The Stock Market thread: BUY! BUY! BUY! Sell, sell, sell...

I used to be very wary of september and october-most years those 2 months were not very good for me. not so sure any more that this holds true. I do always expect December and January to be positive months for me as end of year and beginning of year pension money gets deployed into the market. But now I do not put as much emphasis on this as world events and changes in the US economy just seem to happen at warp speed at at any time. This year we have to add in the effect of the election. I have spent a lot of time agonizing over what effects it could have on me only to come to the conclusion that if i remain vigilant-it really shouldn't matter all that much. I am just proceeding as if my taxes will go up (I am sure that will happen sooner or later) and that my deductions will be more limited. i just include tax planning into the rest of my financial world. I worked hard for what i have and just try to protect it and make the most of it. I resent when others tell me how lucky I am-I just tell them I agree and that the harder i work at it, the luckier I get.

Chance favours the prepared mind, so I'll tell you good preparation. Elections always play a role, since it's sort of like when a stock goes down because the company will be changing CEOs.
 
Re: The Stock Market thread: BUY! BUY! BUY! Sell, sell, sell...

Chance favours the prepared mind, so I'll tell you good preparation. Elections always play a role, since it's sort of like when a stock goes down because the company will be changing CEOs.

So often though-the market moves, thing go up and down-and then the pundits sit around and come up with all sorts of reasons why. It is relative easy to find reasons after the fact. BTW S&P just lowered Spain debt to BBB- Will it have an effect sure-and the networks will use that as a convenient excuse to explain it. But anyone should have expected it as it was hinted at for some time. Hope my deposits in Santander are safe.;)
 
Re: The Stock Market thread: BUY! BUY! BUY! Sell, sell, sell...

So often though-the market moves, thing go up and down-and then the pundits sit around and come up with all sorts of reasons why. It is relative easy to find reasons after the fact. BTW S&P just lowered Spain debt to BBB- Will it have an effect sure-and the networks will use that as a convenient excuse to explain it. But anyone should have expected it as it was hinted at for some time. Hope my deposits in Santander are safe.;)

You should see how quickly SB tanks once Tom Brokaw (or whomever does newscasts now) even mutters the word "Greece".
 
Re: The Stock Market thread: BUY! BUY! BUY! Sell, sell, sell...

You should see how quickly SB tanks once Tom Brokaw (or whomever does newscasts now) even mutters the word "Greece".
This is why years ago it was easier to play this game. You did not have 5-10 financial TV channels and all of these overpaid experts spouting conjecture and opinion and touting. I just watch CNBC to get a gander at whatever new British babe they get to comment-they usually find some real honey. I honestly can say I have never made any money from something i learned on any of these channels. You can gather information from them-but just make your own judgements and decisions. I usually just get the unemployment report on Thursady 8:30 (330,000 announced today) and the jobs report on the first friday.
 
Re: The Stock Market thread: BUY! BUY! BUY! Sell, sell, sell...

This is why years ago it was easier to play this game. You did not have 5-10 financial TV channels and all of these overpaid experts spouting conjecture and opinion and touting. I just watch CNBC to get a gander at whatever new British babe they get to comment-they usually find some real honey. I honestly can say I have never made any money from something i learned on any of these channels. You can gather information from them-but just make your own judgements and decisions. I usually just get the unemployment report on Thursady 8:30 (330,000 announced today) and the jobs report on the first friday.

British honies are nice. The Scottish ones are even better! However, for sure, times have changed. Not only do various market reporters now provide instantaneous data (as opposed to the 20-minute delay we have seen in the past), but online trading makes it even easier to react to this. It's never an excuse to not review the financials of companies before pulling the trigger. I did have an impulse buy from a CNBC reporter in CPB and SLE, and I've somewhat broke even between the two, but have part of the stock stuck because my broker doesn't do PINK trading. I have had a few others that seemed like good ideas at the time, but turned out to not be. Rule of thumb: Check up on the stock's financials before you buy.
 
Re: The Stock Market thread: BUY! BUY! BUY! Sell, sell, sell...

British honies are nice. The Scottish ones are even better! However, for sure, times have changed. Not only do various market reporters now provide instantaneous data (as opposed to the 20-minute delay we have seen in the past), but online trading makes it even easier to react to this. It's never an excuse to not review the financials of companies before pulling the trigger. I did have an impulse buy from a CNBC reporter in CPB and SLE, and I've somewhat broke even between the two, but have part of the stock stuck because my broker doesn't do PINK trading. I have had a few others that seemed like good ideas at the time, but turned out to not be. Rule of thumb: Check up on the stock's financials before you buy.
Absolutely-but in my case I am not a wizard at understanding all of the stuff that goes into these financials-which is why a quick call to NY and my advisor is so necessary.
 
Re: The Stock Market thread: BUY! BUY! BUY! Sell, sell, sell...

This is why years ago it was easier to play this game. You did not have 5-10 financial TV channels and all of these overpaid experts spouting conjecture and opinion and touting. I just watch CNBC to get a gander at whatever new British babe they get to comment-they usually find some real honey. I honestly can say I have never made any money from something i learned on any of these channels. You can gather information from them-but just make your own judgements and decisions. I usually just get the unemployment report on Thursady 8:30 (330,000 announced today) and the jobs report on the first friday.

Flash-looks like the unemployment numbers may be considerably inaccurate as they do not include the largest state number-California. That might change the numbers considerably. Now how does that kind of thing happen? And why shouldn't that have been made public before the market opened when the numbers were announced?
 
Re: The Stock Market thread: BUY! BUY! BUY! Sell, sell, sell...

There are many who have knocked Altria for as long as I have owned it-and what Almington and others have said is very important. But in spite of those thoughts-all of which I agree with and firmly believe-it has been my best gaining stock. During that time it has not only gone well up in value, it has split off Kraft and Philip Morris to me-Kraft i sold but PM I hold-and has consistently paid an extremely good dividend. I have already made my money from it many times over but i still hold some of it-it is an extremely well managed company that somehow seems to find a way no matter what the government has thrown in front of it. Not to mention that in the great down turn of 2008-2009 those dividends came very much in handy and allowed me to buy other stocks that became depressed in price. Going forward? Who knows? MO could collapse-but you could say that about a great number of companies and their track history has been superb. Just my 2¢ and I do not claim any special investment knowledge or training.

I'm a value investor with a long time horizon, and I just don't see Altria as being a good value (particularly compared to other companies). Both Kraft and PM-International have much more growth potential and in the quest for dividend yield I feel that the stock has become overvalued.

While I stay apprised of changes in the market, I don't make changes based on day-to-day fluctuations, but I do evaluate my holdings on a quarterly basis to ensure that the reasons I purchased the company still hold and that my overall allocation is still correct.
 
Re: The Stock Market thread: BUY! BUY! BUY! Sell, sell, sell...

I'm a value investor with a long time horizon, and I just don't see Altria as being a good value (particularly compared to other companies). Both Kraft and PM-International have much more growth potential and in the quest for dividend yield I feel that the stock has become overvalued.

While I stay apprised of changes in the market, I don't make changes based on day-to-day fluctuations, but I do evaluate my holdings on a quarterly basis to ensure that the reasons I purchased the company still hold and that my overall allocation is still correct.

Everything you have posted has made a tremendous amount of sense. I simply was demonstrating what MO has done for me over the past 20 years. I still hold some but not nearly what I have had in the past. I have some PM also. I am very nervous about this market and although considerably invested, I diversify into so many industries and instruments it is hard to even keep track some times. As they always say, past performance is in no way a guarantee of the future. I have had lots of successes (and a fairly large number of failures) over the years. MO has been one of my best long term holds.
 
Re: The Stock Market thread: BUY! BUY! BUY! Sell, sell, sell...

I'm a value investor with a long time horizon, and I just don't see Altria as being a good value (particularly compared to other companies). Both Kraft and PM-International have much more growth potential and in the quest for dividend yield I feel that the stock has become overvalued.

While I stay apprised of changes in the market, I don't make changes based on day-to-day fluctuations, but I do evaluate my holdings on a quarterly basis to ensure that the reasons I purchased the company still hold and that my overall allocation is still correct.

You certainly shouldn't make a decision on a long-term investment based upon a day-to-day fluctuation, otherwise it isn't a long-term investment. However, sometimes even the quarter is too late. I'd recommend looking every 1-2 weeks or so, but no less frequent than a month. Most of all, though... ALWAYS STICK TO YOUR PLAN. Short term investment, plus good or bad news, does NOT mean it is a long term investment.
 
Re: The Stock Market thread: BUY! BUY! BUY! Sell, sell, sell...

You certainly shouldn't make a decision on a long-term investment based upon a day-to-day fluctuation, otherwise it isn't a long-term investment. However, sometimes even the quarter is too late. I'd recommend looking every 1-2 weeks or so, but no less frequent than a month. Most of all, though... ALWAYS STICK TO YOUR PLAN. Short term investment, plus good or bad news, does NOT mean it is a long term investment.

I'm far too paranoid to look or adjust quarterly-I may not make a lot of trades or adjustments-but I do look constantly. Besides, being semi retired-what else have i got to do with my time?
 
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