Re: The States: Why does Minnesota wanna be Kansas?
Budget issues. I understand it, but it still sucks.
Budget issues. I understand it, but it still sucks.
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The States: Why does Minnesota wanna be Kansas?
- Thread starter ScoobyDoo
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Re: The States: Why does Minnesota wanna be Kansas?
I don't agree with it, but I understand it. There is a difference.
I don't agree with it, but I understand it. There is a difference.
Re: The States: Why does Minnesota wanna be Kansas?
Step back, and look at the PR to the average citizen: schools are suffering (budget cuts), roads/construction, crime, whatever....."Oh, 100K to blow stuff up?"
It's not the same, you and I know that. Mickey O'Hallarhan in St Paul doesn't.
Step back, and look at the PR to the average citizen: schools are suffering (budget cuts), roads/construction, crime, whatever....."Oh, 100K to blow stuff up?"
It's not the same, you and I know that. Mickey O'Hallarhan in St Paul doesn't.
Re: The States: Why does Minnesota wanna be Kansas?
I like fireworks, but I won't miss them.
I like fireworks, but I won't miss them.
D
Deleted member 3166
Guest
And some of us don't exactly feel like celebrating America right now either...I sure as hell don't.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
D
Deutsche Gopher Fan
Guest
Re: The States: Why does Minnesota wanna be Kansas?
“Wisconsin’s GOP-controlled legislature gave Taiwanese tech manufacturer Foxconn nearly $4.8 billion in tax breaks, incentives, and taxpayer dollars to build a new factory that President Trump claimed credit for. If Foxconn delivers all 13,000 jobs it has promised, that works out to about $370,000 per job.”
http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/394618-foxconn-deal-raises-concerns-of-taxpayer-giveaways
“Wisconsin’s GOP-controlled legislature gave Taiwanese tech manufacturer Foxconn nearly $4.8 billion in tax breaks, incentives, and taxpayer dollars to build a new factory that President Trump claimed credit for. If Foxconn delivers all 13,000 jobs it has promised, that works out to about $370,000 per job.”
http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/394618-foxconn-deal-raises-concerns-of-taxpayer-giveaways
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: The States: Why does Minnesota wanna be Kansas?
While I think this kind of giveaway is grossly inappropriate, I think that we have to look at the lifetime benefits and costs. $370,000 per year? One-time? If it's a one-time thing, then it might come out to $37,000 per job over ten years. I don't know, but perhaps there's even a net benefit (doubtful) over time. If you're building a $4.8 billion plant, it's going to be around a few years. Intel's Fabs all had multi-year or multi-decade lives.
From the article, 10,000 of those jobs are construction. Those are certainly relatively short-lived jobs. Maybe 1-3 years. So that's ideal. So yeah, if if it's only those 3,000 jobs that are permanent, it looks even worse than the $370,000.
While I think this kind of giveaway is grossly inappropriate, I think that we have to look at the lifetime benefits and costs. $370,000 per year? One-time? If it's a one-time thing, then it might come out to $37,000 per job over ten years. I don't know, but perhaps there's even a net benefit (doubtful) over time. If you're building a $4.8 billion plant, it's going to be around a few years. Intel's Fabs all had multi-year or multi-decade lives.
From the article, 10,000 of those jobs are construction. Those are certainly relatively short-lived jobs. Maybe 1-3 years. So that's ideal. So yeah, if if it's only those 3,000 jobs that are permanent, it looks even worse than the $370,000.
aparch
Acetaminamerican
Re: The States: Why does Minnesota wanna be Kansas?
The other side of that are the long term ecological effects this plant will have. They're requesting to siphon 5.8 Million gallons of water per day, and only return 60% of that into Lake Michigan after treating it for contaminants from their manufacturing process.
They're also being allowed to fill in 26 acres of wetland. Wetland that retained water for, and drains into the Des Plaines river. Illinois towns on the border (Lincolnshire and Gurnee) already experience increased flooding due to development along the Illinois/Wisconsin border, and now they'll have to deal with the increase from the Foxconn plant.
The US Army Corp of Engineers disagrees and said the 26 acres of wetland don't connect to any waterways and gave the blessing to fill the wetland without any additional studies or permits needed.
The other side of that are the long term ecological effects this plant will have. They're requesting to siphon 5.8 Million gallons of water per day, and only return 60% of that into Lake Michigan after treating it for contaminants from their manufacturing process.
They're also being allowed to fill in 26 acres of wetland. Wetland that retained water for, and drains into the Des Plaines river. Illinois towns on the border (Lincolnshire and Gurnee) already experience increased flooding due to development along the Illinois/Wisconsin border, and now they'll have to deal with the increase from the Foxconn plant.
The US Army Corp of Engineers disagrees and said the 26 acres of wetland don't connect to any waterways and gave the blessing to fill the wetland without any additional studies or permits needed.
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aparch
Acetaminamerican
What grinds my gears with this (and it's not you DX, it's the economists who write this trite drivel) is the "creation of 10,000 construction jobs." This isn't "job creation" moreso "continued employment" for these construction workers. If Foxconn hadn't of built their plant in Wisconsin, those workers would still be working, but not on that project.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: The States: Why does Minnesota wanna be Kansas?
Economists aren't writing those reports. If they are, then we're not receiving what the economists wrote. Time after time, they come out as being against these sorts of things, just like they do govt financing of stadiums while the political operators come out touting it as the greatest thing ever.
Economists aren't writing those reports. If they are, then we're not receiving what the economists wrote. Time after time, they come out as being against these sorts of things, just like they do govt financing of stadiums while the political operators come out touting it as the greatest thing ever.
How does that compare to the Amazon bribes by the various governments?
D
Deutsche Gopher Fan
Guest
Re: The States: Why does Minnesota wanna be Kansas?
Another day, another headline. 2005 but report just released
“Pimp who won GOP primary accused of raping prostitute”
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...-won-gop-primary-accused-of-raping-prostitute
Another day, another headline. 2005 but report just released
“Pimp who won GOP primary accused of raping prostitute”
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...-won-gop-primary-accused-of-raping-prostitute
Re: The States: Why does Minnesota wanna be Kansas?
From my calcs spanning a 30 year life of the factory on 3000 permanent jobs its about 53K a year per employee for each of those 30 years on the $4.8Bn tax break. Not sure how much these people are going to make but assuming an average income tax rate of about 5% on taxable income of 50,000 per employee yields $2,500 per year back to the state for the $53,000 subsidy. That's....not a very good deal.
From my calcs spanning a 30 year life of the factory on 3000 permanent jobs its about 53K a year per employee for each of those 30 years on the $4.8Bn tax break. Not sure how much these people are going to make but assuming an average income tax rate of about 5% on taxable income of 50,000 per employee yields $2,500 per year back to the state for the $53,000 subsidy. That's....not a very good deal.
Re: The States: Why does Minnesota wanna be Kansas?
Foxconn is a terrible piece of corporate welfare in a junk industry. Do not confuse this will all investments...
Its a good time to review the stunning success of US Bank. Truly the best investment this state's made in the last several decades. We've already broke even on the $500m with $370m in economic gains from the superbowl and the final four (expected at $142m).
Before plans to construct a new Vikings stadium took shape in 2011, the eastern part of downtown Minneapolis was famously called “a concrete oasis” by Minnesota Gov. Mark Dayton. A 2010 Great Streets study found that 25 percent of the neighborhood’s land was set aside for parking or vacant lots.
Anchored by the new stadium as well as a $588 million five-block redevelopment called Downtown East built around twin 17-story towers owned by Wells Fargo, a $2B constellation of construction projects shows the city trying to turn a stadium project into a benefit for the entire city. All of this $2B in real estate is taxable. So are the residents. So are the companies. And so is all the money they spend.
http://www.startribune.com/super-bo...-to-a-resounding-win-for-minnesota/484225471/
http://www.startribune.com/2019-fin...ors-to-twin-cities-analysis-claims/481435101/
https://www.curbed.com/2017/11/28/16709820/minneapolis-big-build-super-bowl-52
Foxconn is a terrible piece of corporate welfare in a junk industry. Do not confuse this will all investments...
Its a good time to review the stunning success of US Bank. Truly the best investment this state's made in the last several decades. We've already broke even on the $500m with $370m in economic gains from the superbowl and the final four (expected at $142m).
Before plans to construct a new Vikings stadium took shape in 2011, the eastern part of downtown Minneapolis was famously called “a concrete oasis” by Minnesota Gov. Mark Dayton. A 2010 Great Streets study found that 25 percent of the neighborhood’s land was set aside for parking or vacant lots.
Anchored by the new stadium as well as a $588 million five-block redevelopment called Downtown East built around twin 17-story towers owned by Wells Fargo, a $2B constellation of construction projects shows the city trying to turn a stadium project into a benefit for the entire city. All of this $2B in real estate is taxable. So are the residents. So are the companies. And so is all the money they spend.
http://www.startribune.com/super-bo...-to-a-resounding-win-for-minnesota/484225471/
http://www.startribune.com/2019-fin...ors-to-twin-cities-analysis-claims/481435101/
https://www.curbed.com/2017/11/28/16709820/minneapolis-big-build-super-bowl-52
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