The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

Y'all ain't gonna top Moose's Tooth in the pizza department so whatever.

Been there. It’s not bad. Would definitely go again.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

Restaurant options in the TC have infinitely improved the past 20 years and I imagine even more so the past 4 years I've been away. There are still the chains and conglomerates, but plenty of other options across a wide spectrum are now available and it's been a chef-driven revival. this explains why.

FYI my wife was the GM for Patrick's Cafe for 3 years, for 2 years at Mt. Fuji, and consulted on menus with the owners of Amazing Thailand, and before that the King and I several years prior to their retirement.

Sad to see some former favorites have closed though including Bento Box and Krungthep Thai.

TC restaurants are nothing like 15-20 years ago. It’s incredible. Where places like Hoyt’s, Jax, and St Paul Grille were tops here then, now you have world-class options like Spoon & Stable. Gavin Kaysen is a farking genius and is eventually going to get a Michelin star. I’m shocked he hasn’t earned one yet.

Slap, I’m excited for you to come back and try some of these new places. Travail is going to be pretty incredible when they re-open in their new building. Even the mid-range has become a must try.

 

[burd]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

Do you guys change capes when you go from discussing craft beers to discussing whether The Pizza in This Metro of 8+ million people is better than The Pizza in That Metro of 8+ million people?

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

Man, you have no idea how many discussions this either eliminates you from, or subjects you to serious ridicule on this board.

I stay out of the NY/Chiraq pizza wars, simply because I know Detroit-style Sicilian is the best.

I've posted on GPL long enough to know that lol! Milwaukee does have enough different ethnic groups to have some really restaurants, Mader's for instance is great if you like German food. Also the south side has a ton of great Mexican restaurants.

For the most part when I go back I tend to go to the places that my family liked, Kopps has great custard and it's certainly worth going to if the flavor of the day/month looks good and their burgers aren't the specialty burgers you get at some high end place with Lucy's but they're your typical good greasy hangover food that isn't trying to be overly pretentious (and it's a burger so it probably shouldn't be to begin with). Also Oakland Gyros is similar in the sense that it's located near a college but is open late and you get a very good portion size for the price.

That said I don't think it has as many high end options as the Twin Cities or as much variety nor the top chefs like DX mentioned.

And before someone like trix calls me out for hypocrisy, I don't consider Detroit-style "American pizza". It's definitely it's own thing. I guess there are some shops in NY that do squares, but they don't bake it like we do.

I'm not looking to get overly pretentious about pizza haha, like I said I don't eat it nearly as often as I used to and my waistline has thanked me for it.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

TC restaurants are nothing like 15-20 years ago. It’s incredible. Where places like Hoyt’s, Jax, and St Paul Grille were tops here then, now you have world-class options like Spoon & Stable. Gavin Kaysen is a farking genius and is eventually going to get a Michelin star. I’m shocked he hasn’t earned one yet.

Slap, I’m excited for you to come back and try some of these new places. Travail is going to be pretty incredible when they re-open in their new building. Even the mid-range has become a must try.

I plan to gain some weight whenever that is.

 

[bostonewe]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

TC restaurants are nothing like 15-20 years ago. It’s incredible. Where places like Hoyt’s, Jax, and St Paul Grille were tops here then, now you have world-class options like Spoon & Stable. Gavin Kaysen is a farking genius and is eventually going to get a Michelin star. I’m shocked he hasn’t earned one yet.

Slap, I’m excited for you to come back and try some of these new places. Travail is going to be pretty incredible when they re-open in their new building. Even the mid-range has become a must try.

I grow less enamored with the Michelin star as I learn more about it. While I do think that it is a great way to benchmark some places (particularly France as that was where it was developed), I'm not sure that it is a worthwhile benchmark in the US. Currently there are now only 4 cities in the US that are reviewed by Michelin reviewers - NY, Chicago, San Fran, and Washington DC. While I can respect that the country is larger than those in Europe and it is easier to survey more restaurants in a smaller area, I find it hard to believe that it isn't worthwhile to visit some of the other large cities in the US and find even 1 star Michelin level dining and service in those cities. I agree with your sentiments on Kaysen (despite not yet having had the opportunity to eat in his restaurants) as well as about Travail (we did get to enjoy their tasting menu with melmac and her husband when we were all out there in 2017 for the FF).

 

[Kepler]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

Michelin can only be used to compare restaurants in those cities. AFAIK they make no pretensions about being exhaustive and always say there are plenty of restaurants that would be 3 stars all through the world which they don't get to.

IINM there is also some pay to play. It still cracks me up that the signature culinary landmark is brought to us by the equivalent of Goodyear. Because nothing says haute cuisine like steel belted radials.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

You haven't been to all of Seattle...

(To be honest, "Seattle only with more Heroin" is Kamloops.)

Too many "Faux Homeless" in Seattle for there to be a Heroin problem. So many Rich White kids who had to rebel and live on the streets with their dogs to show they werent the pansies everyone knows they are. They just smoked lots of weed and did meth

 

[Kepler]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

Too many "Faux Homeless" in Seattle for there to be a Heroin problem. So many Rich White kids who had to rebel and live on the streets with their dogs to show they werent the pansies everyone knows they are. They just smoked lots of weed and did meth

That was a Portland thing when I was there. They would try to hit people up for cash. It was very funny. In real life the employed population of Portland has no time for Fred Armisen and Carrie Brownstein cosplay. We're still three standard deviations to the left but go f-ck yourselves white Millennials.

I'll bet half those kids go to law school and become Republicans like the Summer of Love loafers did. Spoiled flower children are what made Reaganomics possible.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

Do you guys change capes when you go from discussing craft beers to discussing whether The Pizza in This Metro of 8+ million people is better than The Pizza in That Metro of 8+ million people?

Not me...but I also dont drink Craft Beer and think pizzas from all over are great. I also dont go into Starbucks and order drinks that have 12 words and think if you need to water down your alcohol with anything more than ice you should just stop. (and if I am bartending we are always unable to make Old Fashioned you Hipster Dweebs!)

And dont let these guys fool you...they are the same way. They talk like this because they think it makes them sound smart when they get caught getting a cold cut combo from Subway

 

[Kepler]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

The greatest slice of pizza you'll ever have is at 2 am on a winter night while studying for a prelim. That's always been the way it is.

I can't see any objective way to compare NY and Chicago pizza. They're so different they may as well be different food groups. They're both delicious when you're in the mood and neither would suffice when you're not.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

They talk like this because they think it makes them sound smart

This is such a weird thing for you to keep saying about people. You do realize nobody's done this, or thought it, since high school, right?

It's like my Christian right coworkers making sex jokes. It's not that the jokes are gross. It's that they are grown men. Time to maybe put that time of life in the rear view mirror and get on with adulthood?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

The greatest slice of pizza you'll ever have is at 2 am on a winter night while studying for a prelim. That's always been the way it is.

I think you might be right. The evening after an all-nighter writing a senior lab report, I remember walking home by Domino's on the way back to my apartment. I hadn't eaten much since lunch the previous day. Anyways, they were running a BOGO deal and they still had their XL pizzas. I had originally ordered just one pizza but the guy said, "you can get a second one free." Sure. Walked back, started studying for another class, and started eating. Went to go put the leftover pizza away a couple hours later and found I had nothing left of either. :-/

I miss those days where I could eat two farking pizzas and still be skinny.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

This is such a weird thing for you to keep saying about people. You do realize nobody's done this, or thought it, since high school, right?

It's like my Christian right coworkers making sex jokes. It's not that the jokes are gross. It's that they are grown men. Time to maybe put that time of life in the rear view mirror and get on with adulthood?

You seriously dont know people who try to sound smart by speaking this way? Honest question do you actually know anyone in real life? Christ half of Academia does this on a regular basis and I am not talking about when they write papers I mean when they are just talking in general. It isnt enough to just be able to discuss a topic you need to be thought of as an EXPERT on it.

This is what people do. They talk about things they THINK people will respect them more for and hide the things that make them look dumb or cliche. You can always tell because if you question them they will then start using 25 words to explain a yes or no answer. If you call them on it that is when the real fun begins.

We all know people who look down on others for their tastes and who then get caught making similar decisions. People who will go on for hours about how much they love only top flight movies and TV but watch the same dreck as everyone else a lot of the time. People who liked bands before they were big and sold out, directors when they actually had talent, writers before they got commercialized and whiskey before it became popular. They drink only micorbrews (except when they drink Bud Light or something) and never eat fast food...except when they do

Hell one of my best friends in the world is the living embodiment of this and everyone who knows him talks about it.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

There is a place in DT Minneapolis that at 2am has slices (it was a Greek place I believe but I forget) and their slices rocked! I lived 2 blocks from Luce in Uptown for 3 years so that also always hit the spot.

Best walk in slices I had were at Paggliaci's on The Ave in Seattle. Sadly that location closed.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

You seriously dont know people who try to sound smart by speaking this way?

Not adults, no. Honestly.

I know people who try to sound dumber than they are in order to fit in and not irritate the dummies. I know businessmen who try to sound like they have things under control when they are completely clueless -- Dump is a classic example but this is a very common disease among the MBA set.

But no, I don't know anybody who is trying to overplay their intellectual hand by speaking style because the dumber people are the less they value intellectual curiosity and the less they care about seeming "smart." The smart don't need to fake being smart. The stupid despise the smart. So it all works out.

Now what I have run into is dummies who become enraged when somebody is speaking over their head and ascribe that to being "snooty" or "full of themselves." I have this problem sometimes with my coworkers because I had correct (well, Katherine Hepburn 1920 Standard) grammar pounded into me from childhood. I actually use words like "whom," correctly. I use hitherto for god's sake. I'm not proud of it but it's the correct word. I've had people tell me flat out that I shouldn't try to "sound so smart." What can you do with paranoia / insecurity like that? Well, in my case I ignore it, which means for about the first 6 months in every new job in an ex-mil environment things don't go well until they realize that's just my birth defect. I've had coworkers tell me flat out "it took me a couple years to figure out you weren't an as-shole." Which, um, yay? I guess?

Let your freak flag fly and don't worry about other people. And for god's sake stop making assumptions about other people. You'll either be wrong and that makes you an idiot or you'll be right in which case congratulations you successfully predicted somebody is a turd; don't you feel better now?

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

With Handy's post about pretentious people I do know one person who kinda fits the description. Basically she talks about how she only drinks craft beers and is overly snobby about food but isn't particularly knowledgeable about it from my experience. Her mom *****ed out some waitress at Famous Dave's once because she's from the south and "knows good BBQ" (also why the **** did she take her mom to Famous Dave's in the first place...? The third paragraph might explain that)

The funny thing is she came over when people were hanging out at my birthday back in April and brought all these weird craft beers that aren't very good. They were still in my fridge as of last night and I finally got rid of them. some local brewery's porter (fine but I'm not a big Porter guy esp. this time of year), a vanilla bean blonde ale (lol!), and a Boysenberry Sour(ended up pouring most down the drain). I like some craft beers and have drank enough of them over the years to have developed a taste for the various types of beer but honestly if it's summer and it's not a good lager/pilsner I'd rather drink a Coors Light/Mich Ultra/Mich Golden than any of those. Those don't have nearly as much flavor obviously but I can drink regular *** beer and not whine about it. And nowadays I vastly prefer cocktails or even just bourbon/rum on ice (and if I go out it's usually a vodka soda w/ lime). Some of this is due to being more concious about my weight, some of this is due to the fact that beer is just heavy and I feel like it weighs me down/makes me tired especially when I'm out late drinking, and some of it is because like Handy said, I'm not pretending to be something I'm not and don't generally care what others think about my choice of beer. ) Even my Spanish friends give me crap about it sometimes but honestly, what is the difference between Modelo/Corona and Coors other than like 80 extra calories?) Anyhow to me it's funny, she's this beer snob but it doesn't even seem like she has any idea of what she's talking about. I can understand drinking a single porter as a dessert beer but on a summer day there's next to no chance that I'm drinking one out in the sun. Obviously you don't have to follow any rules for drinking beers according to the time of the year or anything but people typically do that for a reason, it just makes more sense to drink lighter beer when it's hot out. I'd also argue acquiring a taste for beer doesn't take as much effort as acquiring a taste for Bourbon/Scotch. Anyhow, long story short, I don't care what she drinks but the fact that she's a snob about beer and judges others for the beer they drink but has no idea what she's talking about is what makes this all funny.

As for food she's the type who might go to fancier places that are expensive and probably have good Yelp reviews but couldn't tell you any of the hole in the wall places that have solid reasonably priced food with decent portions or even been to the places that have been on DDD. For someone who's a BBQ fanatic you'd think she'd know about Qfanatic or Smokey's but apparently not until I took a group there. And then when we went to those places she'd say how they're good but not the south (which is totally believable but at this point her knowledge of that is in question).

So yes, in short, these people exist and I was kinda on the same page as Kepler until I remember that she existed

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

Maybe all these people are here in the flyover wasteland because we’re so insecure about not living on the overpriced east coast

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

The person I was talking about seems like a coastie but grew up in MKE area like I did and lives in the cities. And never spent any considerable time on the coast(s) from what I can tell other than maybe the third coast (parents live in MS).

For what you're describing I think you'd have to live in those cities for a while to really know what you're missing (kinda how I feel when I go visit my brother in Omaha or to a lesser extent, go back to MKE).

 

[Kepler]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

With Handy's post about pretentious people I do know one person who kinda fits the description. Basically she talks about how she only drinks craft beers and is overly snobby about food but isn't particularly knowledgeable about it from my experience. Her mom *****ed out some waitress at Famous Dave's once because she's from the south and "knows good BBQ" (also why the **** did she take her mom to Famous Dave's in the first place...? The third paragraph might explain that)

The funny thing is she came over when people were hanging out at my birthday back in April and brought all these weird craft beers that aren't very good. They were still in my fridge as of last night and I finally got rid of them. some local brewery's porter (fine but I'm not a big Porter guy esp. this time of year), a vanilla bean blonde ale (lol!), and a Boysenberry Sour(ended up pouring most down the drain). I like some craft beers and have drank enough of them over the years to have developed a taste for the various types of beer but honestly if it's summer and it's not a good lager/pilsner I'd rather drink a Coors Light/Mich Ultra/Mich Golden than any of those. Those don't have nearly as much flavor obviously but I can drink regular *** beer and not whine about it. And nowadays I vastly prefer cocktails or even just bourbon/rum on ice (and if I go out it's usually a vodka soda w/ lime). Some of this is due to being more concious about my weight, some of this is due to the fact that beer is just heavy and I feel like it weighs me down/makes me tired especially when I'm out late drinking, and some of it is because like Handy said, I'm not pretending to be something I'm not and don't generally care what others think about my choice of beer. )Even my Spanish friends give me crap about it sometimes but honestly, what is the difference between Modelo/Corona and Coors other than like 80 extra calories?) Anyhow to me it's funny, she's this beer snob but it doesn't even seem like she has any idea of what she's talking about. I can understand drinking a single porter as a dessert beer but on a summer day there's next to no chance that I'm drinking one out in the sun. Obviously you don't have to follow any rules for drinking beers according to the time of the year or anything but people typically do that for a reason, it just makes more sense to drink lighter beer when it's hot out. I'd also argue acquiring a taste for beer doesn't take as much effort as acquiring a taste for Bourbon/Scotch. Anyhow, long story short, I don't care what she drinks but the fact that she's a snob about beer and judges others for the beer they drink but has no idea what she's talking about is what makes this all funny.

As for food she's the type who might go to fancier places that are expensive and probably have good Yelp reviews but couldn't tell you any of the hole in the wall places that have solid reasonably priced food with decent portions or even been to the places that have been on DDD. For someone who's a BBQ fanatic you'd think she'd know about Qfanatic or Smokey's but apparently not until I took a group there. And then when we went to those places she'd say how they're good but not the south (which is totally believable but at this point her knowledge of that is in question).

So yes, in short, these people exist and I was kinda on the same page as Kepler until I remember that she existed

To be fair I wasn't so much thinking of people who act superior. Sure, they exist -- isn't that what Hipsters are? Though I think of that as a 20-something disease when people are still locked in their own heads and haven't had anything serious to worry about. What other people think of your record collection is important until you've had a colicky baby.

And college students act like this ALL THE TIME. My God, it's the stereotype of college kids because it's true.

One thing about academia, though. Academics -- as in tenured tier 1 professors -- are actually the least pretentious people you'll ever meet, because grad school is where your pretensions go to die. If you've been through Grad School and you did it right you have no beliefs left at all, starting with what you thought was important and ending with you yourself. You're left with a razor sharp ability to dissect everything people believe in and discover who put it there for what nefarious purpose, what it gives them, and how it will interact with other people's completely autobiographical "beliefs." Just as Med School allows you to look at a naked body without emotion, Grad School allows you to look at naked ideas without emotion. You won't get fooled again.

People are offended by academics because they use jargon but jargon is important because it allows you to use 4 words as a stand in for 40 in a precise manner. Nobody gets angry at chemists for using molecular terminology or biologists for using taxonomy. I invite anybody to try to understand Heidegger without using his terminology. The first few weeks you'll be tearing your hair out but when it clicks it all comes together and you are having a conversation as deliberate and concise as nuclear physicists.

People are generally upset by the fact that there are things they don't understand. When it's about something they think they ought to understand, just by right of being a human, like politics or aesthetics, this scares or offends them and they react emotionally by reading their own insecurities back into the speaker. But that's on them. I don't get upset when people discuss biomechanics in front of me and I don't understand 80% of the words. So if somebody's going to go Film School on me rather than be upset I shut up and try to learn something. I don't assume my half-as-sed opinion trumps their study.

When people do the opposite we wind up with Dump.