FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
No referendums for NYS this time around.
No referendums for NYS this time around.
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The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
- Thread starter Kepler
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Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
???
This makes no sense. It doesn't speak to the topic at all.
???
This makes no sense. It doesn't speak to the topic at all.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
Look who you are talking to. Flaggy makes Alex Jones look like George Will
Look who you are talking to. Flaggy makes Alex Jones look like George Will
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
Paul LePage.
Voted in twice with less than 50% in elections with a strong independent candidate (plus a few other single digit candidates). This is why there has been a major push in Maine for this.
Paul LePage.
Voted in twice with less than 50% in elections with a strong independent candidate (plus a few other single digit candidates). This is why there has been a major push in Maine for this.
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
yeah, instant run-off
the ballot measure defines it this way:
"the method of casting and tabulating votes in which voters rank candidates in order of preference, tabulation proceeds in sequential rounds in which last-place candidates are defeated and the candidate with the most votes in the final round is elected."
yeah, instant run-off
the ballot measure defines it this way:
"the method of casting and tabulating votes in which voters rank candidates in order of preference, tabulation proceeds in sequential rounds in which last-place candidates are defeated and the candidate with the most votes in the final round is elected."
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
Looks like I have two referendums:
1. School district wants more money.
2. Shall the Minnesota Constitution be amended to remove state lawmakers’ power to set their own salaries, and instead establish an independent, citizens-only council to prescribe salaries of lawmakers?
------
1. Sure.
2. I have no idea on that second one. My gut says vote to remove that power. My head says this is more complex than face value.
Looks like I have two referendums:
1. School district wants more money.
2. Shall the Minnesota Constitution be amended to remove state lawmakers’ power to set their own salaries, and instead establish an independent, citizens-only council to prescribe salaries of lawmakers?
------
1. Sure.
2. I have no idea on that second one. My gut says vote to remove that power. My head says this is more complex than face value.
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Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
Who knows, though? Le Page might have won anyway.
The reason I like IRV is it puts a dagger in the heart of the "don't waste your vote" argument. It lets you vote for whoever you want. If/when that candidate fails the cut your vote rolls on to your next surviving choice.
It also allows you to put the really, truly dangerous candidate dead last. For instance, in the last election there were something like 6 candidates standing on the MD ballot. With IRV, Obama would not have been my #1 and Romney would not have been my #6. Some loony leftist would have my pole position (er,...) and some loony theocon would have been my cellar dweller.
To rank everybody hifo voters need to research everybody, not just the top 2. (Lofo voters will be lazy and probably just mark their 1 -- this doesn't matter, they're simply not taking advantage of the gradations and since you roll until you hit .50 it doesn't matter.)
A few decades of this will give real third parties a shot, force the majors to be more responsive, and not hurt anything.
The only difficulty I see is it doesn't play well with the 12th amendment. If we get significant minor parties that start winning states we will need to either ditch the EC or allow a plurality winner.
Who knows, though? Le Page might have won anyway.
The reason I like IRV is it puts a dagger in the heart of the "don't waste your vote" argument. It lets you vote for whoever you want. If/when that candidate fails the cut your vote rolls on to your next surviving choice.
It also allows you to put the really, truly dangerous candidate dead last. For instance, in the last election there were something like 6 candidates standing on the MD ballot. With IRV, Obama would not have been my #1 and Romney would not have been my #6. Some loony leftist would have my pole position (er,...) and some loony theocon would have been my cellar dweller.
To rank everybody hifo voters need to research everybody, not just the top 2. (Lofo voters will be lazy and probably just mark their 1 -- this doesn't matter, they're simply not taking advantage of the gradations and since you roll until you hit .50 it doesn't matter.)
A few decades of this will give real third parties a shot, force the majors to be more responsive, and not hurt anything.
The only difficulty I see is it doesn't play well with the 12th amendment. If we get significant minor parties that start winning states we will need to either ditch the EC or allow a plurality winner.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
Number two is happening because of the Republicans whining about Dayton paying his employees market rates.
Number two is happening because of the Republicans whining about Dayton paying his employees market rates.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
Or you repeal the 12th amendment and go back to the electors having two votes. Since most states already tell the electors how to vote, you have 2-0 and 1-1 scenarios.
Or you repeal the 12th amendment and go back to the electors having two votes. Since most states already tell the electors how to vote, you have 2-0 and 1-1 scenarios.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
Right now salaries of the legislature are set by the legislature. Rubes will think that's not fair that they can just set their own pay.
But of course giving themselves a raise is tricky, politically. The minute they vote to give themselves a raise it becomes an election item the next year.
The counter argument is that it's unfair to put legislators in this dicey political situation.
Personally I'm going to vote against #2, for a couple of reasons. First, I just generally oppose constitutional amendments. I think we do far too many of them around the country.
Second, I like for it to be politically tricky for the legislature to give themselves a raise. If it's put in the hands of an "independent commission" (i.e., appointees who themselves will play politics with it), I think we will see an escalation in legislative pay. Between the salary and the per diem, personally I think the compensation level is appropriate. I don't want "legislator" to become an actual profession. I'm in favor of citizen legislators who come from all walks of life, whether it be teaching, farming, law, or whatever.
There is no question the reason for the second one.
Right now salaries of the legislature are set by the legislature. Rubes will think that's not fair that they can just set their own pay.
But of course giving themselves a raise is tricky, politically. The minute they vote to give themselves a raise it becomes an election item the next year.
The counter argument is that it's unfair to put legislators in this dicey political situation.
Personally I'm going to vote against #2, for a couple of reasons. First, I just generally oppose constitutional amendments. I think we do far too many of them around the country.
Second, I like for it to be politically tricky for the legislature to give themselves a raise. If it's put in the hands of an "independent commission" (i.e., appointees who themselves will play politics with it), I think we will see an escalation in legislative pay. Between the salary and the per diem, personally I think the compensation level is appropriate. I don't want "legislator" to become an actual profession. I'm in favor of citizen legislators who come from all walks of life, whether it be teaching, farming, law, or whatever.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
And then Congress decides. I'm sure you'll change your mind should the speaker be a D, though.
That really, really didn't work.
And then Congress decides. I'm sure you'll change your mind should the speaker be a D, though.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
That's why the raise is almost always the first or last thing they do.
That's why the raise is almost always the first or last thing they do.
LePage would not have won his first term in a two way race. The dynamics of his reelection were different due to a hunting referendum question that really drove the rural hick vote.
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
Didn't know. But I assumed it was a partisan issue and voted for congress to retain rights. Regardless, I have no problem rewarding congress...its an extremely valuable role in society and we could use top talent there.
Didn't know. But I assumed it was a partisan issue and voted for congress to retain rights. Regardless, I have no problem rewarding congress...its an extremely valuable role in society and we could use top talent there.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
I think you and I are actually pretty well-aligned on the issue. I don't want to see it become a profession either.
I think you and I are actually pretty well-aligned on the issue. I don't want to see it become a profession either.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
Doesn't necessarily help if we have the speaker. The vote is by state delegation with one vote per state.
Which is weird.
But anyway all the flyover states with a million square miles and 48 people and 1 rep might give the Orcs a majority.
And then Congress decides. I'm sure you'll change your mind should the speaker be a D, though.
Doesn't necessarily help if we have the speaker. The vote is by state delegation with one vote per state.
Which is weird.
But anyway all the flyover states with a million square miles and 48 people and 1 rep might give the Orcs a majority.
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Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
Alaska has two ballot measures up for vote. Nothing really exciting though.
#1 combines the process for voter registration with the Permanent Fund Dividend application. Basically, if you apply for a PFD you can use the same application to register to vote. It's a no brainer one but apparently we have to vote on it.
#2 is a real weird one. It would allow the state to issue bonds to pay for Alaska Student Loan Corporation student loans. I'm not sure how it all works, I'm still doing my research on it.
Alaska has two ballot measures up for vote. Nothing really exciting though.
#1 combines the process for voter registration with the Permanent Fund Dividend application. Basically, if you apply for a PFD you can use the same application to register to vote. It's a no brainer one but apparently we have to vote on it.
#2 is a real weird one. It would allow the state to issue bonds to pay for Alaska Student Loan Corporation student loans. I'm not sure how it all works, I'm still doing my research on it.
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
My county (Montgomery), which had the county council vote themselves a handsome raise and raise property taxes 9%, will have the citizens vote on term limits. It got on the ballot via citizen signatures.
The public unions and county council are against it.
My county (Montgomery), which had the county council vote themselves a handsome raise and raise property taxes 9%, will have the citizens vote on term limits. It got on the ballot via citizen signatures.
The public unions and county council are against it.
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