The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

[unofan]

Joe, you seem more like an old-school, traditional Republican than the newer alt-right, Tea Bagger model. As such, the thinking displayed in your posts contains the usual gaping logical shortcomings, profound lack of awareness, and refusal to connect even the most connectable of dots if it doesn’t suit your position but stops way short of the literally insane, outright fascist lunacy that’s in favor in the party at this time. (Tangent, how do you not see that you have far more in common with the current Democratic Party than this collection of sociopaths? Is it really a case of “I decided at 18 I was a Republican and it would be a sign of weakness to ever change that”? This isn’t Red Sox / Yankees for godssake, it’s slightly more important, and bottom line, your party left you, that’s already happened, done deal, for you to not see that or act accordingly is a whole other level of psychology that needs looking into.)

There are 3 animating principles of the Republican Party, and only 3:
• Do anything and everything to enrich their plutocrat masters
• Oppose anything any liberal ever said might even slightly be a good idea (clean water is now a liberal thing…?)
• Dismantle anything the Kenyan Muslim did

(And even those last 2 are more for chits and giggles than anything else, and are never to interfere with the first one.)

Education, health care, clean air/water, the rule of law, upward mobility, peace – no interest whatsoever. That’s not just a party leadership thing, that goes to the marrow of the party. That is who they are. I know self-delusion has always been a big favorite with conservatives but some of you old-school guys are taking it to a new extreme with your continued, knee-jerk support of a party that was hi-jacked from you wholesale over the last 15 years.

Joe is a single issue voter. He thinks abortion is murder, and that belief trumps any other consideration (pun intended).

 

[unofan]

I really think King has been a huge disappointment.

Of course you do.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

Joe, you seem more like an old-school, traditional Republican than the newer alt-right, Tea Bagger model. As such, the thinking displayed in your posts contains the usual gaping logical shortcomings, profound lack of awareness, and refusal to connect even the most connectable of dots if it doesn’t suit your position but stops way short of the literally insane, outright fascist lunacy that’s in favor in the party at this time. (Tangent, how do you not see that you have far more in common with the current Democratic Party than this collection of sociopaths? Is it really a case of “I decided at 18 I was a Republican and it would be a sign of weakness to ever change that”?

I'm sure joe will speak for himself but I believe he has said abortion prevents him from voting Democratic. My parents were both ardent Catholics and it was with misgivings that they voted Democratic. My Dad, who was the far more doctrinaire one (being a hardcore intellectual Jesuit convert) did so only about half the time when he saw the Republicans as equally in violation of other basic Christian tenets. My Mom did so because when her town was washed away in a flood when she was seven FDR personally handed her a Hershey's candy bar, thus winning what is currently a 70-year straight ticket Democratic voting record. Now that was efficient.

I can understand that. I know many people for whom the racism and misogyny and homophobia of the GOP make it impossible to vote for them even when they agree on policy. In short I understand why joe doesn't vote D, though given his apparent good sense I can't for the life of me figure out how he can vote R.

 

[Drew S.]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

The Democrats have been the centrist mainstream party ever since Bill Clinton. What we need is for both parties to slide to the left and become a reasonable left and a reasonable right, and then to gently oscillate between those two. What we have had for twenty years is staggering jolts between a center platform and a radical right wing Utopian political experiment that has failed.

Both parties want to think they represent the center. Lets agree that it has ebbed and flowed the last 25 years.

I think Republicans need to acknowledge there is an element in the party that is very undesirable. In a lot of respects, it is equivalent to the inner city welfare crowd that always go for democrats. You're completely right that the decent people in both parties need to take charge for the good of the country. It seems like post 9/11 we've completely lost our way.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

Both parties want to think they represent the center. Lets agree that it has ebbed and flowed the last 25 years.

No. It ebbed and flowed from the 1860s up to the late 1970s. Then the GOP was hijacked by radicals who have since pushed it so far to the right that it is now a mongrel crossbred between a 21st century Eastern European white nationalist party and a mid-19th century monarchist/industrialist Bonapartist party.

Indeed, the GOP is no longer even a political party. It's a diseased reactionary movement dangerously similar to that which spawned fascism in the 1930s.

 

[unofan]

Both parties want to think they represent the center. Lets agree that it has ebbed and flowed the last 25 years.

I think Republicans need to acknowledge there is an element in the party that is very undesirable. In a lot of respects, it is equivalent to the inner city welfare crowd that always go for democrats. You're completely right that the decent people in both parties need to take charge for the good of the country. It seems like post 9/11 we've completely lost our way.

The GOP in no way can legitimately claim to represent the center.

 

[alfablue]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

I think Republicans need to acknowledge there is an element in the party that is very undesirable. In a lot of respects, it is equivalent to the inner city welfare crowd that always go for democrats. You're completely right that the decent people in both parties need to take charge for the good of the country. It seems like post 9/11 we've completely lost our way.

Wait, are you comparing racist xenophobes with poor people?

Or implying that inner city welfare crowd are somehow undesirable?

I kinda doubt that people living in the inner city on welfare actually enjoy being like that. Whereas the racist xenophobes do. Many revel in it.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

Wait, are you comparing racist xenophobes with poor people?

Or implying that inner city welfare crowd are somehow undesirable?

I kinda doubt that people living in the inner city on welfare actually enjoy being like that. Whereas the racist xenophobes do. Many revel in it.

The Black Horde is an old conservative chestnut. In their fever dreams they believe society will break down and the darkies will spill out of the cities like army ants coming for their crops and daughters.

It's why they stockpile all the guns.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

Both parties want to think they represent the center. Lets agree that it has ebbed and flowed the last 25 years.

I think Republicans need to acknowledge there is an element in the party that is very undesirable. In a lot of respects, it is equivalent to the inner city welfare crowd that always go for democrats. You're completely right that the decent people in both parties need to take charge for the good of the country. It seems like post 9/11 we've completely lost our way.

No, 9/11 is when we lost our minds.
We lost our way in 1980 when we decided that Ayn Rand was God.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

I'm sure joe will speak for himself but I believe he has said abortion prevents him from voting Democratic. ...though given his apparent good sense I can't for the life of me figure out how he can vote R.

Killing people post birth seems to be 100% ok with Joe, great sense...

 

[Kepler]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

No, 9/11 is when we lost our minds.
We lost our way in 1980 when we decided that Ayn Rand was God.

This is an interesting take on the whole situation.

We know that Donald Trump Jr. and people high up in the Trump campaign were actively seeking to meet with Russians. . . to obtain information about their opponent Hillary Clinton, and were disappointed when they didn’t get it, which is collusion by any standard. But also know...that Trump has been inept. He’s embarrassed us on the world scene. He seems to lack knowledge or curiousity. we know that his healthcare is a debacle, that his travel ban was worse. But he’s embarrassed us. He lies at every turn, and he continues to not lose support among his core constituents, even though his approval rating is around 36% with people who I call of average intelligence. People who continue to support him, it’s 85%-89% among Republicans that support him. I have an interesting reason as to why that is.

I think that those people. . . the idea of America. . . you would think if somebody betrayed America by dealing with a foreign power, it would be the height, that would be it, that would be intolerable. But I’ll tell you why I think that hasn’t happened. I think that those people who still support Trump believe that America left them a long time ago. It left them when it got a black President. It left them when it let all these immigrants in. It left them when it gave gays the right to marry. It left them when women excelled. It left them a long time ago. . .

The country that they once knew and loved is gone. And then all of a sudden they hear a man say all of the things they wish they could say, and couldn’t, who’ll deliver America back again. It’ll be theirs again. **** all these foreigners! . . .

He looked them right in the eye and told ‘em, he was going to give it back. And Russia was his instrument. Russia delivered their ‘Messiah’ to them, and they don’t care how it happened. If you were drowning, would you care from where your help came? You wouldn’t care at all. And I think the thing for them is that that is more important than anything else — their goal of getting America back, ‘cuz America is dead to them. The America that they know is dead to them. It’s interesting, ‘cuz I was trying to find a way to encapsulate all of this and I ran across this script’ . . . not that I read the Bible all the time, trust me, but this seemed to typify exactly my thoughts on this thing. It is from 1 Kings, Chapter 3, 16-18.

There were two prostitutes that came to the king and stood before him. One of them said, ’pardon me my lord, this woman and I lived in the same house, and I had a baby while she was there with me. The 3rd day after my child was born, this woman also had a baby. We were alone, there was no one in the house but the two of us. During the night, this woman’s son died because she lay on him. So she got up in the middle of the night and took my son from my side while I, your servant, was asleep. She put him by her breast and she put her dead son by my breast. The next morning, I got up to nurse my son and he was dead. But I looked at him closely in the morning light, and I saw that it wasn’t by son who I had born. The other woman said, “No, the living son is mine, the dead one is yours. The living one is mine.” And they argued before the king. The king said: “This one says my son is alive and your son is dead, while the other one says, no, your son is dead and my son is alive. . . Bring me a sword.” So they brought the king a sword. He then gave the order: “Cut the living child into two and give half to one, and half to the other.”

The woman whose son. . . was alive, was deeply moved out of love for the son and said to the king. . . “please my lord, give her the living baby, do not kill him.” But the other said, “Neither I, nor you shall have him. Cut him in two.”

So there was one woman who loved that baby so much that she said I don’t care if you’re with me or not, as long as you’re alive. The joy of you being alive is what I’m after. It’ll hurt me that you’re not with me, but live, and be with someone else. The other woman said, no, I don’t want the baby, and I don’t want you to have it. I want us both to know the pain of loss. I want you to cut this baby in half. I want it to be dead to both of us.

I submit to you that that is EXACTLY how Trump supporters feel. They would rather have a dead half-a-country than a whole one that exists without them. They would rather cut this country in half, and have it die off than have it been something they felt not a part of. I honestly believe they would rather have a dead country than the America that moves forward. So they don’t care about Russia. They don’t care about walls. They just care about this: ‘If I can’t have this country the way my fathers had it, then it should die. If it can’t be mine, and mine alone, the it should die. I don’t care if it lives without me. Cut this baby in half. I’d rather have a dead half-a-country than a whole one that exists without me.’

 

[Drew S.]

The Black Horde is an old conservative chestnut. In their fever dreams they believe society will break down and the darkies will spill out of the cities like army ants coming for their crops and daughters.

It's why they stockpile all the guns.

My post had zero to do with race. Its sad that is what you would read into it. In any case, my point stands that the wrong people are driving both parties.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

My post had zero to do with race. Its sad that is what you would read into it.

Let's go to the videotape:

I think Republicans need to acknowledge there is an element in the party that is very undesirable. In a lot of respects, it is equivalent to the inner city welfare crowd that always go for democrats.

And now let's get an assist from Lee Atwater:

You start out in 1954 by saying, “N-gger, n-gger, n-gger.” By 1968 you can't say “n-gger” — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “N-gger, n-gger.”

Interview with Alexander P. Lamis (8 July 1981), as quoted in The Two-Party South (1984)‎ by Alexander P. Lamis

And some context:

"Inner city," in short, is imprecise in describing today’s urban reality. It captures neither the true geography of poverty or black America, nor the quality of life in many communities in central cities. But politically, its 1970s-era meaning lingers.

“I think it’s actually very useful, and it’s useful as a synonym for ‘black,’” said N. D. B. Connolly, a historian at Johns Hopkins University who never uses the phrase himself. It doesn’t matter, he says, that the term as Mr. Trump uses it is no longer demographically accurate.

The point is, it doesn’t have to be, because what it does is it conjures a narrative about what happened in America during and after the 1960s,” Professor Connolly said. “The inner city is the place that burned when King was assassinated. It was Watts. It was the place Ronald Reagan had to try to conduct the war on drugs.”

The phrase can also imply, Professor Connolly argues, that the problems of “inner cities” are of their own making — and are not the result of decades of policies that withheld mortgages, abetted discrimination or undermined schools. It might be more accurate to call them “disinvested neighborhoods.” That language acknowledges that society actively chose to withhold investment from these places (but that not all urban neighborhoods suffered that fate). Or “neighborhoods of concentrated poverty” might be a better phrase: If what we really want to talk about is deep poverty, this recognizes that it can be found anywhere, whether in rural Appalachia, suburbia or Detroit.

As we've told Fishy, you can pull that kind of stuff on intellectually slovenly echo chamber sites like Redstate, the Blaze or PJMedia, but the requirements are higher here. Up your game or go back to the minors.

Again, as we've told Fishy, we don't mind you being a talking point dispenser, we only mind if you're lazy about it. Show us some respect when you try to play games.

 

[burd]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

I think Republicans need to acknowledge there is an element in the party that is very undesirable.

62 million of you voted for Trump. That's not an element, it's stage 4.

 

[unofan]

My post had zero to do with race. Its sad that is what you would read into it. In any case, my point stands that the wrong people are driving both parties.

Sure. And when sports announcers refer to some players as scrappy and others as athletic, those also have no racial connotations, either.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

Sure. And when sports announcers refer to some players as scrappy and others as athletic, those also have no racial connotations, either.

Hey, now. Drew doesn't see color. He's just concerned about what's going on in the "inner city."

Any more dog whistles and I expect NAPALM to come running...

 

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

The party is not a joke. The leadership needs to be replaced.

I really think you're missing the boat on this one, joe. How does the party leadership become "The Leadership?" They're put into place for holding unpopular positions within the party? Yes, there will be dissent, but there's always some level of dissent.

 

[mookie1995]

Sure. And when sports announcers refer to some players as scrappy and others as athletic, those also have no racial connotations, either.

Either way tom Brady is a cheater

 

[alfablue]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

My post had zero to do with race. Its sad that is what you would read into it. In any case, my point stands that the wrong people are driving both parties.

So then explain how your deplorable are at all similar with inner city welfare people.

We have racist xenophobes in one corner and poor people (normally of non white race) in the other.

I don't get that connection what so ever.

 

[alfablue]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

This is an interesting take on the whole situation.

that makes a lot of sense, now.

Very much adds to the contempt I have for people who have no problem with the russian investigation, as whole, though.

We won the cold war, but some want us to lose it for the sake of losing it.