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The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

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Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Kepler said:
You adjust like with every other program in history. But when the other side is obsessed with a repeal drag act that will instantly remove 14 million people from insurance, you have to wait until you control Congress to do it.

Nice try, though.
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Lots of words. You could've just cut to the chase, and to what Pres HRC will say on Day 2:

Single. Payer.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

The Sicatoka said:
Gov. Mark Dayton (D, MN) says Affordable Care Act has become unaffordable, needs reforms
He stressed it helps many, but has "serious blemishes."

http://www.startribune.com/dayton-s...-become-unaffordable-needs-reforms/396864871/

What do you do when your signature legislation, the Affordable Care Act, ... isn't.
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You fix it...

Why is it people on the Right cant seem to understand you dont have to just burn the house down when the rook leaks...
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Handyman said:
You fix it...

Why is it people on the Right cant seem to understand you dont have to just burn the house down when the rook leaks...
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The correct analogy is when a Republican's electricity bill goes up he burns down the houses in the poor part of town to reduce demand.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

The Sicatoka said:
Me? Nope. SEP*.
You're the Minnesotan with the MNSure problems. You fix it. ;)


*someone else's problem
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I am not on MNSURE so no. ;)

And I think you understand that "you" meant "those in charge". But here lets put it another way...

The GOP Congress has tried to repeal ObamaCare like 40 times...none of those times have any sort of fix for it or replacement, just get rid of it and see where the chips land. I am all for getting rid of something that doesnt work (and I have hated ObamaCare since Day 1) as long as we have something better than or at least equal to it as a replacement. They dont like it cause the Mean Muslim Kenyan put it through. And before you deny that...remember in none of those repeals, or in the hours of yelling and *****ing about it did they ever even discuss ways to fix the holes...it is either repeal it or ITS THE END OF THE WORLD CAUSE OF SOCIALISM!!1!!!!!!!!111 (cause not one nimrod on the Right actually knows what Socialism is...they just overuse the buzzword like they are Millennial trying to sound smart)

Newsflash to the Right Side of the Aisle just because your tire pressure is low doesnt mean you douse your car in gasoline and set it on fire! You find the problem and fix it. I know that requires thinking, and these people are so flipping stupid they think science is some sort of liberal lie, but that is your job.
 
Handyman said:
I am not on MNSURE so no. ;)

And I think you understand that "you" meant "those in charge". But here lets put it another way...

The GOP Congress has tried to repeal ObamaCare like 40 times...none of those times have any sort of fix for it or replacement, just get rid of it and see where the chips land. I am all for getting rid of something that doesnt work (and I have hated ObamaCare since Day 1) as long as we have something better than or at least equal to it as a replacement. They dont like it cause the Mean Muslim Kenyan put it through. And before you deny that...remember in none of those repeals, or in the hours of yelling and *****ing about it did they ever even discuss ways to fix the holes...it is either repeal it or ITS THE END OF THE WORLD CAUSE OF SOCIALISM!!1!!!!!!!!111 (cause not one nimrod on the Right actually knows what Socialism is...they just overuse the buzzword like they are Millennial trying to sound smart)

Newsflash to the Right Side of the Aisle just because your tire pressure is low doesnt mean you douse your car in gasoline and set it on fire! You find the problem and fix it. I know that requires thinking, and these people are so flipping stupid they think science is some sort of liberal lie, but that is your job.
Click to expand...

Maybe the best solution is not a federal solution??
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Handyman said:
it is either repeal it or ITS THE END OF THE WORLD CAUSE OF SOCIALISM!!1!!!!!!!!111 (cause not one nimrod on the Right actually knows what Socialism is...they just overuse the buzzword like they are Millennial trying to sound smart)
Click to expand...

I've been noticing a resurgence in "Orwellian" lately.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

joecct said:
Maybe the best solution is not a federal solution??
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So think of something better...something that wont screw all those people who have insurance now but didnt before and that is a start. We can discuss repealing it when you can replace it completely.
 
Handyman said:
So think of something better...something that wont screw all those people who have insurance now but didnt before and that is a start. We can discuss repealing it when you can replace it completely.
Click to expand...

The way the policies are currently constructed, you can't afford to have a major medical expense. Not with super high deductibles.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

That is an awesome soundbyte...problem is it means nothing. People had the same issues under the old system (google the stats on bankruptcies due to health issues) so in reality it is just an empty platitude. That is all the Right has about this...a bunch of rhetoric but zero solutions. That is why their repeals go nowhere...

Again I dislike ObamaCare as much the next guy but I will still rip the GOP for their ridiculousness on this subject until they prove it is more than just hollow words said to make a few bucks. Problem is, almost every day that party gives people reason to believe they dont give two craps about them so why should anyone trust them on this issue? Add in that they have no idea what they want to do to make sure people have access to good rates and coverage (and dont you dare say Market Forces because that is what got us here in the first place...bad health care at high prices cause of Market Forces) and they look like fools.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

joecct said:
The way the policies are currently constructed, you can't afford to have a major medical expense. Not with super high deductibles.
Click to expand...

The way the old policies were constructed you wouldn't have medical insurance and it would bankrupt you financially.

For some reason in this country it's ok to charge 1000 dollars for a pill that costs 1 dollar to make while at the same time saying we can't reduce costs and cover everybody. The entire system is broken. The system was broken before. It's still broken.

And here's the beauty of it. There are a lot of powerful people making a lot of money off the broken system. And they are way more powerful than the average American who needs Health Care.

We have an ethics crisis in this country.
 
joecct said:
Maybe the best solution is not a federal solution??
Click to expand...

It's funny be because in Colorado, those opposed to tge Colorado Care amendment say "it shouldn't be a state solution, it should be done at the federal level"

I guess both just sound like excuses for not trying to fix anything.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

joecct said:
The way the policies are currently constructed, you can't afford to have a major medical expense. Not with super high deductibles.
Click to expand...

Stupid statement on several levels. If you have insurance, even with high deductibles, by law your maximum out of pocket expense is 10K. That's it. Now, 10K is a lot of money for a lot of people. I realize that. However, in the pre-ACA world, your medical costs could be UNLIMITED. That's how people were getting buried in bankruptcy due to medical bills.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

ScoobyDoo said:
The way the old policies were constructed you wouldn't have medical insurance and it would bankrupt you financially.

For some reason in this country it's ok to charge 1000 dollars for a pill that costs 1 dollar to make while at the same time saying we can't reduce costs and cover everybody. The entire system is broken. The system was broken before. It's still broken.

And here's the beauty of it. There are a lot of powerful people making a lot of money off the broken system. And they are way more powerful than the average American who needs Health Care.

We have an ethics crisis in this country.
Click to expand...

You keep bemoaning the $1000 hepatitis C pill, but have you looked at how that pill treatment cost in relation to the old method of treatment? Take some time, put in the small bit of effort, and you'll find that taking the course of pills is still far cheaper and easier than the old method of treatment. Politicians like to make hay on that cost of that pill while insurance companies and medical professionals are ecstatic that it exists.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Handyman said:
That is an awesome soundbyte...problem is it means nothing. People had the same issues under the old system (google the stats on bankruptcies due to health issues) so in reality it is just an empty platitude. That is all the Right has about this...a bunch of rhetoric but zero solutions. That is why their repeals go nowhere...

Again I dislike ObamaCare as much the next guy but I will still rip the GOP for their ridiculousness on this subject until they prove it is more than just hollow words said to make a few bucks. Problem is, almost every day that party gives people reason to believe they dont give two craps about them so why should anyone trust them on this issue? Add in that they have no idea what they want to do to make sure people have access to good rates and coverage (and dont you dare say Market Forces because that is what got us here in the first place...bad health care at high prices cause of Market Forces) and they look like fools.
Click to expand...
This is not a Republican/Democrat issue. Obamacare is, because that's political. But fixing of healthcare issues is an issue between the public (which is disorganized and underfunded) and large, wealthy corporations in either the medical field or health insurance field. There have been opportunities for the Dems to fix this, most notably during the first two years of Bill Clinton's administration, and they failed miserably.

Here is the conundrum as I see it.

First, we got off on the wrong foot. The insurance model really only works if you are insuring unexpected, reasonably rare events, like car accidents or tornadoes or fires. It doesn't work well for something you might use tens or hundreds of days a year. That would be like buying insurance to cover you in case you need to buy food.

But, until someone invents the time machine, it's a very bad system in which we find ourselves. The problem of Obamacare is that it simply pours gasoline on a dumpster fire that already exists. Putting more money into the insurance model is not the way we should be going. Instead, we should be trying to wean ourselves from the insurance model.

The slow, painful way is to change it so the only insurance you buy covers things like major, unexpected medical events. Basically something like an extremely high deductible plan. People will pull back from some care they might otherwise have sought (every single sniffle), and the medical providers will have to start doing some serious pricing analysis. The problem is, that creates pain for insurers, health care providers and the public, and it would take a long time to correct things.

The better solution is to simply rip the band aid off and go to a single payer plan. However, doing so is impeded by at least three large roadblocks. First, there is the general public mistrust of a single payer plan, even though most find Medicare generally acceptable. To push the single payer plan past the public, we basically would just have to say, "ok, medicare starts when you are born (or at conception to gain even more political support) not when you hit your mid-60's." That might help us get past roadblock number 1.

More difficult is the medical community. We've built a medical industrial complex that is, in some instances at least, a for profit model. Going to the single payer plan is essentially nationalizing our healthcare providers. People who you willingly allow to stick a camera up your anus are extremely effective lobbyists, and I don't think they want to be government employees.

The final hurdle is probably the most difficult. To go to a single payer plan is to effectively kill a huge industry. I have no idea how many people are employed in the health insurance industry, and related businesses, but to tell them that they're just going to have to go out and start trying to sell universal life policies or something instead isn't going to happen without an extremely bloody fight. I don't think the country wins that fight. We saw that in '92.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

St. Clown said:
You keep bemoaning the $1000 hepatitis C pill, but have you looked at how that pill treatment cost in relation to the old method of treatment? Take some time, put in the small bit of effort, and you'll find that taking the course of pills is still far cheaper and easier than the old method of treatment. Politicians like to make hay on that cost of that pill while insurance companies and medical professionals are ecstatic that it exists.
Click to expand...

It's systemic. Look at epi-pen for example then. Costs usually go down over time. The cost of that is going up. Value based pricing for Health Care is ethically and morally wrong.
 
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