The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

None of that takes into account payroll taxes or insurance.

What's your point?

 

[mookie1995]

None of that takes into account payroll taxes or insurance.

*** insurance have to do with taxes???

Way to stray off topic

 

[joecct]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

A bit high?? Les? Doc??

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/12/105068-bill-stirred-lot-conversation-look-closely-see/

Forget the commentary, the pics are scary.

 

[unofan]

Bull sh**. When Obama and Romney released their taxes for the 2012 campaign, they paid an effective rate of 14.8% for Romney, and the President was in the 14% range, too, with both of them earning in the 8-digit range for incomes. For the standard taxpayers such as you or me, we pay an average effective tax rate of roughly 11.7%, per the IRS's figures.

Here's a link to the Tax Foundation (conservative group) that includes a table using the IRS's metadata for filings in the 2009 tax year. Those tax rates will be roughly the same in 2011, which is when the candidates were releasing their figures.
http://taxfoundation.org/blog/romneys-tax-returns-and-effective-tax-rates-rich

Romney's was only that high because he failed to utilize several deductions. Once he lost the presidency, anyone want to bet he went back and amended that return to claim those deductions?

 

[Scott W]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Romney's was only that high because he failed to utilize several deductions. Once he lost the presidency, anyone want to bet he went back and amended that return to claim those deductions?

So it's his fault that he would use deductions which are legal that many rich people on both sides of the political spectrum's use? Maybe we should think about demanding politicians finally start eliminating some of those deductions?

 

[unofan]

So it's his fault that he would use deductions which are legal that many rich people on both sides of the political spectrum's use? Maybe we should think about demanding politicians finally start eliminating some of those deductions?

No, but do you recognize the disingenuity of releasing tax returns with a higher than necessary rate to avoid political backlash? The question isn't why shouldn't he take the deductions, but why he didn't do so from the start. I can't remember what his exact rate would've been with those deductions, but it was markedly lower.

I also would like to know why he refused to release more than one year.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

What's your point?

That's been my point all along. I could give two ****s that Romeny's effective federal rate is 14% when my payroll taxes are more than that all by themself.

*** insurance have to do with taxes???

Way to stray off topic

As for what insurance and taxes have to do with each other, apparently everything, according to Justice Roberts they can now tax me if I don't carry insurance.

 

[Scott W]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

No, but do you recognize the disingenuity of releasing tax returns with a higher than necessary rate to avoid political backlash? The question isn't why shouldn't he take the deductions, but why he didn't do so from the start. I can't remember what his exact rate would've been with those deductions, but it was markedly lower.

I also would like to know why he refused to release more than one year.

Of course it is disingenuous, isn't that what being a politician has become? Show or say whatever you need to try to get elected.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

That's been my point all along. I could give two ****s that Romeny's effective federal rate is 14% when my payroll taxes are more than that all by themself.

Your payroll taxes are 6.2%. Your employer pays a matching tax. Romney likely made most of his money through capital gains, but when he's not running for office, he would have had a job paying a wage/salary greater than $113,700, meaning that while his effective rate would be lower than mine, his lifetime benefit will be, too, since Social Security has means testing for for all payouts.

So, again, what's your point other than an opportunity to whine some more?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Your payroll taxes are 6.2%. Your employer pays a matching tax. Romney likely made most of his money through capital gains, but when he's not running for office, he would have had a job paying a wage/salary greater than $113,700, meaning that while his effective rate would be lower than mine, his lifetime benefit will be, too, since Social Security has means testing for for all payouts.

So, again, what's your point other than an opportunity to whine some more?

Wrong again. His lifetime benefit is more because he's not flushing money down the toilet just for insurance. Insurance doesn't build wealth. Social Security/Medicare is not a wealth building tool it's an insurance policy.

My contribution via percentage for that insurance is 12%. Romney's is about 0.5% or so?

Big difference.

But you can live in la la land with the rest of the folks who exclude payroll taxes from the discussion of tax policy.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Here's a question, though... Are they pulling a Canada and making you prove you have a health plan in order to get a bank account?

 

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Wrong again. His lifetime benefit is more because he's not flushing money down the toilet just for insurance. Insurance doesn't build wealth. Social Security/Medicare is not a wealth building tool it's an insurance policy.

My contribution via percentage for that insurance is 12%. Romney's is about 0.5% or so?

Big difference.

But you can live in la la land with the rest of the folks who exclude payroll taxes from the discussion of tax policy.

His insurance payments dictate the dollar value of his social security payments how? You're not making sense in the least. He pays 6.2% to the SSA on the first $113,700 of his wages. You pay the same. It's the law, feel free to look it up in any number of resources, like the IRS for one. How is your 6.2% now 12% on that $113,700 and his now 0.5%?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

His insurance payments dictate the dollar value of his social security payments how? You're not making sense in the least. He pays 6.2% to the SSA on the first $113,700 of his wages. You pay the same. It's the law, feel free to look it up in any number of resources, like the IRS for one. How is your 6.2% now 12% on that $113,700 and his now 0.5%?

You don't think my wages are artificially deflated because my employer has to pay the 6% to the government for hiring me?

Please, are you really this dense?

I make perfect sense. You live in la la land where I'm leeching off the government and paying less a % of my income in taxes as Mitt Romney. It's just not true.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

You don't think my wages are artificially deflated because my employer has to pay the 6% to the government for hiring me?

Please, are you really this dense?

I make perfect sense. You live in la la land where I'm leeching off the government and paying less a % of my income in taxes as Mitt Romney. It's just not true.

We don't know exactly what your wages are reduced by the employer's portion of the tax. It's mostly thought to be an incomplete pass through tax, but the exact value is unknown. It's not likely to be that 6.2% they pay, however. As a matter of your overall percentage paid in income taxes, it's absolutely factual. Simply because you choose to ignore the IRS's figures doesn't mean it's any less true.

You leeching off the government isn't la-la land at all. It's also a mere matter of fact for anyone sending their children to public schools and not earning a very large sum of money. People earning large sums of money don't tend to make use of public schools.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

We don't know exactly what your wages are reduced by the employer's portion of the tax. It's mostly thought to be an incomplete pass through tax, but the exact value is unknown. It's not likely to be that 6.2% they pay, however. As a matter of your overall percentage paid in income taxes, it's absolutely factual. Simply because you choose to ignore the IRS's figures doesn't mean it's any less true.

You leeching off the government isn't la-la land at all. It's also a mere matter of fact for anyone sending their children to public schools and not earning a very large sum of money. People earning large sums of money don't tend to make use of public schools.

You should run for office. You and Mitt make a perfect pair.

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

His insurance payments dictate the dollar value of his social security payments how? You're not making sense in the least. He pays 6.2% to the SSA on the first $113,700 of his wages. You pay the same. It's the law, feel free to look it up in any number of resources, like the IRS for one. How is your 6.2% now 12% on that $113,700 and his now 0.5%?

I don't believe he does because he's not getting a paycheck. His earnings are via the returns he received yearly on his Bain investments. IIRC Romney's last paycheck from an employer would have been the Commonwealth of Mass at the beginning of 2007 which would have included payroll taxes. His capital gains income from Bain would not.

So, apples to apples Scooby is correct. You can't say you paid 15% and Romney paid 15% to the feds so its all fair, when you're also paying an extra 6.2% in payroll taxes.

 

[mookie1995]

I don't believe he does because he's not getting a paycheck. His earnings are via the returns he received yearly on his Bain investments. IIRC Romney's last paycheck from an employer would have been the Commonwealth of Mass at the beginning of 2007 which would have included payroll taxes. His capital gains income from Bain would not.

So, apples to apples Scooby is correct. You can't say you paid 15% and Romney paid 15% to the feds so its all fair, when you're also paying an extra 6.2% in payroll taxes.

really?
soc sec sends me a stupid form every year to show how much i made in income and how much i'd get if i retire here or there - and start living the life of luxury .
therefore if you say romney made no 'income' and didn't pay in, he isn't getting anything out, no?

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

really?
soc sec sends me a stupid form every year to show how much i made in income and how much i'd get if i retire here or there - and start living the life of luxury .
therefore if you say romney made no 'income' and didn't pay in, he isn't getting anything out, no?

Correct. Presumably he wouldn't be collecting social security, even though I believe he's reached the age (isn't he like 66-67?). Not everybody gets Social Security for a variety of reasons. He may not have accepted his salary while Gov of Mass.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

really?
soc sec sends me a stupid form every year to show how much i made in income and how much i'd get if i retire here or there - and start living the life of luxury .
therefore if you say romney made no 'income' and didn't pay in, he isn't getting anything out, no?

In order to qualify for social security, though, you must go into government single payer medicine, otherwise known as Medicare. Also, the cost of Medicare goes up if you don't get it at 65.

Also, if you get Medicaid, the cost is that all of your bequeaths go to the government.

 

[ericredaxe]

I don't believe he does because he's not getting a paycheck. His earnings are via the returns he received yearly on his Bain investments. IIRC Romney's last paycheck from an employer would have been the Commonwealth of Mass at the beginning of 2007 which would have included payroll taxes. His capital gains income from Bain would not.

So, apples to apples Scooby is correct. You can't say you paid 15% and Romney paid 15% to the feds so its all fair, when you're also paying an extra 6.2% in payroll taxes.

It depends on how he filed and what type of income. There is a "self employment tax" that you have to pay if you are self employed and not paying a payroll tax and a portion (maybe all?) of that self employment tax goes towards social security.