The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

[FreshFish]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Nothing to see here, move along.....

WASHINGTON — A tech firm linked to a campaign-donor crony of President Obama not only got the job to help build the federal health-insurance Web site — but also is getting paid to fix it.

Anthony Welters, a top campaign bundler for Obama and frequent White House guest, is the executive vice president of UnitedHealth Group, which owns the software company now at the center of the ObamaCare Web-site fiasco.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

How can someone as intelligent as yourself not realize that living in a society means that you're always going to be paying for stuff that you don't want or use?

That makes no sense, unless you are talking about tax dollars. No one forces me against my will to buy stuff I don't want.....until PPACA, anyway.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Is there such a thing as an individual policy?

Yes....or at least, there used to be, before PPACA.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

But can't we make those decisions after meeting the doctor? If the person you're seeing is no good, you don't just say "well this doctor sucks and keeps giving me prostate exams when I went in for a sinus problem, but I'm gonna stick with him". That doesn't make sense. What I will qualify this with is that I live next to a major city so perhaps my choices are plentiful, but geesh when I looked at the Doc Find for the insurance like 500 general practice doctors came up within 10 miles of where I live.

Rover-Just getting a list of doctors is like looking at a list of cars. You really need to do the work to find out who it is you are entrusting the most important thing in your life-YOU. i know lots of very fine physicians. I also know a fairly large number that i would not slice a cabbage for me much less decide about my life. I have friends who are doctors-who I would never go to myself and certainly not refer a patient to. In NJ we are able to go online and research a doctor-find out where and when he went to school, whether he passed or failed his board exams, whether he has a long list of malpractice claims against, lots of stuff. What it does not tell you is whether he is a nice friendly guy(which means little to me) or whether he is an arrogant SOB. For me, the most important information is simply does he know what he is doing? The rest-is is friendly, is he on time, is he caring-i can find out in a face to face in a few moments. I just think your life(and of course by that I mean your healthcare) is just too important to leave decisions to others to make. The trend that we are seeing unfortunately is that the decision as to who you get to see is being made by some non medical person(not even yourself) and is made solely based on what is the cheapest way to go as opposed to the most qualified or the best results.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

All true enough, except I am unconvinced that there is going to be the huge drop-off in the level of care due to the ACA. Time will tell, but I remain a skeptic. Of course all I want out of my primary care doctor is to prescribe my one maintenance drug, and have enough smarts to refer me to a specialist when necessary. Of course, I am a firm believer that health care starts with what we do to ourselves.

We are not really in disagreement here. But what you just said is extremely important-you want him to have enough smarts to refer you to someone who also has enough smarts to do what is best for you. How do you know when the triage officer(in this case your GP) indeed has enough smarts? Doctors, and certainly non doctors trying to do the referring would be best served if they admitted when they simply do not know something-but they rarely do that. They will give you a diagnosis and try some sort of treatment for something that they have no clue about. Their misdiagnosis, or mistreatment, or sometimes worse-their delay in sending you to someone who really does know-can be lethal.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

If we gave tax breaks for people who haven't been laid in 20 years, would that make you, Opie, Flaggy, etc happy?

What you seem to be too stupid to understand is that you WILL pay for stuff you won't use because we're all in this together. If you don't like it move to North Korea which is the true embodiment of a conservative society. I'm not in any danger of being hijacked by Somali pirates. However, I have no problem with using tax dollars to protect fellow citizens over there who might be in harm's way. Get over yourself already. The world doesn't revolve around you.

Another logical inversion. Amazing.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

I was wondering the other day. How many times in 2014 are we going to see a political ad for a republican candidate that include Obama's sound bite "you like your old policy, you get to keep it"?

I'd like just a buck for each time. Even worse, I read this morning that Louisiana Democrat Mary Landrieu said as recently as August: (paraphrasing) "If I had to vote for it again, I would." Boy, howdy, she's going to be in gumbo up to her lips.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

I like it Opie! In fact, lets team up! I'm going to hand out the "Unskewed Polls" Award every week in conjunction with your award. In honor of people like yourself who didn't realize the country was about to soundly defeat Republicans yet again in 2012 because you're all as popular as sh !t. So, to kick us off, lets give you what I'm sure will be the first of many citations as our inaugural Unskewed Polls award winner for this week! Keep on thinking a slow website for a month is going to stop the demographic doom your ideology faces.

I'm trying to recall the number of "arguments" in your quiver. Three? Four? Whatever. It's a very small number. And you keep repeating them like "Rainman," usually when they don't apply to the subject at hand. You're obviously intoxicated with your own "brilliance." Most of the rest of us would rather have a drink.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

That makes no sense, unless you are talking about tax dollars. No one forces me against my will to buy stuff I don't want.....until PPACA, anyway.

Which was upheld by John Roberts of the Supreme Court. Which you don't get either. Too funny.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

We are not really in disagreement here. But what you just said is extremely important-you want him to have enough smarts to refer you to someone who also has enough smarts to do what is best for you. How do you know when the triage officer(in this case your GP) indeed has enough smarts? Doctors, and certainly non doctors trying to do the referring would be best served if they admitted when they simply do not know something-but they rarely do that. They will give you a diagnosis and try some sort of treatment for something that they have no clue about. Their misdiagnosis, or mistreatment, or sometimes worse-their delay in sending you to someone who really does know-can be lethal.

Dr. Pio used to refer to an "index of suspicion." Nurse practitioners giving flu shots and the like is not quite the same as diagnosis. When you hear someone b*tching that "my doctor charged me $100 and didn't find anything wrong," you're dealing with fairly high level ignorance.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Is there such a thing as an individual policy? Far as I know insurance doesn't work unless you're in a pool of some sort. It's kind of like Communism without being Communism. Get my drift? You want an individual policy then get rid of insurance altogether cause it doesn't work that way.

Oh, and if you think you're not "subsidizing" a big payout from a motorcyle policy when it happens with the other insurance you have from that company you're kidding yourself.

It may not be individual in terms of 300 million different policies for 300 million different people. But you had some coverage options, things you may or may not need.

Again, compare to auto coverage. I have to buy liability coverage. Maybe I choose comprehensive or collision, maybe not. Depends upon my risk tolerance.

Same with health insurance. Before, maybe I had prescription coverage, maybe I covered preventative care, maybe I covered care outside of my provider network. You had some choices, based upon your situation, lifestyle, etc...

I don't think Obamacare seeks to make everyone's health insurance identical. But what it seems to do is say the basic level of coverage, and the things you have to pay for, are a lot higher than many people want, need, or are willing and able to pay for.

I think they'll find they could have done a better job if they had started with requiring just a very basic, minimal level of coverage to hit catastrophic events, and let people pick and choose plans with "add ons" that they find important or necessary.

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

I'm trying to recall the number of "arguments" in your quiver. Three? Four? Whatever. It's a very small number. And you keep repeating them like "Rainman," usually when they don't apply to the subject at hand. You're obviously intoxicated with your own "brilliance." Most of the rest of us would rather have a drink.

If this is your idea of an acceptance speech, its a pretty sh! tty one. Of course I wouldn't expect any less from you! Looks like my tax break idea for you hit a little too close to home.

SJHovey, you ARE paying for the bad drivers already with your car insurance. So with your car you are sharing the responsibility already. Why should healthcare operate any differently.

 

[joecct]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

If this is your idea of an acceptance speech, its a pretty sh! tty one. Of course I wouldn't expect any less from you! Looks like my tax break idea for you hit a little too close to home.

SJHovey, you ARE paying for the bad drivers already with your car insurance. So with your car you are sharing the responsibility already. Why should healthcare operate any differently.

But unmarried males under 25 don't have to pay for health coverage!

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

It may not be individual in terms of 300 million different policies for 300 million different people. But you had some coverage options, things you may or may not need.

Again, compare to auto coverage. I have to buy liability coverage. Maybe I choose comprehensive or collision, maybe not. Depends upon my risk tolerance.

Same with health insurance. Before, maybe I had prescription coverage, maybe I covered preventative care, maybe I covered care outside of my provider network. You had some choices, based upon your situation, lifestyle, etc...

I don't think Obamacare seeks to make everyone's health insurance identical. But what it seems to do is say the basic level of coverage, and the things you have to pay for, are a lot higher than many people want, need, or are willing and able to pay for.

I think they'll find they could have done a better job if they had started with requiring just a very basic, minimal level of coverage to hit catastrophic events, and let people pick and choose plans with "add ons" that they find important or necessary.

Maybe, but probably not. Here's one major reason things are different.

The Affordable Care Act’s requirement that insurers cover maternity care is a major manifestation of its broader prohibition against gender rating. Before Obamacare, it made sense actuarially for insurers to charge women more than men for coverage on the individual market. The fact that women, rather than men, incur maternity costs was a big part of their justification, though women were also generally charged more for equivalent coverage. By prohibiting the practice, Obamacare doesn’t just strike a blow for moral reasoning. It effectuates a billion-dollar transfer of wealth from men to women.

By undertaking to foist the costs of maternity care back onto women alone, Ellmers was proposing, perhaps unwittingly, to transfer all of that wealth from women back to men.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/has-man-ever-delivered-baby

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

There's no way to explain away or rationalize away this woman's story:

My health-care policy was cancelled, and the Obama administration's explanation that policies are being cancelled because they were "substandard" and issued by "bad apple" insurers is absolutely not true.

I had a very comprehensive policy, with a large and solid national health insurer, and the reasons my policy was not "ACA compliant" is because I now have to pay for maternity coverage, general pediatric coverage and pediatric dental coverage, as prescribed by ObamaCare. I'm 55 years old, have no children and don't plan to have children. Clearly, I am beyond childbearing age, and without children. Why would I have to purchase pediatric dental insurance? Or general pediatric care?

ObamaCare is forcing people to purchase a product that they don't want and can't ever use. I do not need maternity or pediatric services but have to purchase them. The new policy that would have been "comparable" to my current policy is more expensive with higher deductibles.

It is really sad. Typically, when an honorable person makes a mistake, the honest thing to say is "oops, I goofed. This isn't turning out the way I planned." Yet the sycophants here are so deeply invested that they cannot even acknowledge the obvious!

I have to give a big-time shout out to ericredaxe for being honorable even though we may disagree on substance. He supports the law's intentions and has enough character to acknowledge that there is something wrong with its execution.

I said at the outset of the predecessor thread that there are plenty of good intentions behind the impetus to do something. This situation now is beyond horrible. It's fraudulent. If any business tried this we'd all be howling for a criminal prosecution.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

She'd purchase that for the same reason I pay for Medicare. Same thing.

I guess the bottom line is people look at taxes and insurance in two completely different ways. The real world, and fantasy land. That 55 year old woman lives in fantasy land.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

There's no way to explain away or rationalize away this woman's story:




It is really sad. Typically, when an honorable person makes a mistake, the honest thing to say is "oops, I goofed. This isn't turning out the way I planned." Yet the sycophants here are so deeply invested that they cannot even acknowledge the obvious!

I have to give a big-time shout out to ericredaxe for being honorable even though we may disagree on substance. He supports the law's intentions and has enough character to acknowledge that there is something wrong with its execution.

I said at the outset of the predecessor thread that there are plenty of good intentions behind the impetus to do something. This situation now is beyond horrible. It's fraudulent. If any business tried this we'd all be howling for a criminal prosecution.

Let's give her a bill that just says she's paying for A, B, C and D even though it also covers E, F and G because she will feel better about her policy if it doesn't list the things she doesn't "need". Sure, she will still be paying the same amount, but she'll feel so much better about it.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

She'd purchase that for the same reason I pay for Medicare. Same thing.

I guess the bottom line is people look at taxes and insurance in two completely different ways. The real world, and fantasy land. That 55 year old woman lives in fantasy land.

I'll agree with you there, Tinkerbell.

 

[SteveP]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Does that qualify as oxymoronic?

How 'bout just moronic?

And there's your sign

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304073204579169711152265686

First, it's not only men who are forced to buy maternity coverage they are physically incapable of using. So are women in the stage of life between childbearing age and Medicare eligibility.

Second, under-30s are exempt. That's right, the geniuses who wrote ObamaCare are forcing everyone to buy maternity care except the age cohort that includes women at peak fertility.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

And there's your sign

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304073204579169711152265686

The policies will include those services whether it is on the bill or not. If it makes people feel better, just ignore it.

It's like when I go to a hotel with a pool and a gym. I'm not going to use the pool and the gym, but I don't demand a lower price for my room or get angry with the people at the front desk for offering it.