The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

[joecct]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

What's funny is that Buffett supports Obamacare and criticizes it for not going far enough. Given the gates foundation's history of supporting medicine, I'm guessing he has similar views.

You really want to use them as your examples?

You missed the point. They are wealthy enough that most, if not all, dire medical conditions would equal about one day's earnings on the money they hold. They, personally, don't need insurance.

For the rest of us, do we need all the doo dads that the current policies have? Would we be better served by paying for the day to day stuff and have a policy that covers the bad stuff that may happen every once in a while. If we have monthly trips to the ER (like I did with the kids when they were little for stitches and assorted other stuff), then my rate would go up as I was more of a risk than somebody who did not need the ER, OR, or whatever.

 

[joecct]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

You can. What's stopping you?

Really? Honestly, where can I find a policy that covers just the bad stuff with a reasonable ($1K or so) deductible??

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

I had heard that The LA Times leaned more to the left than to the right....

Thousands of Californians are discovering what Obamacare will cost them — and many don't like what they see.

These middle-class consumers are staring at hefty increases on their insurance bills as the overhaul remakes the healthcare market. Their rates are rising in large part to help offset the higher costs of covering sicker, poorer people who have been shut out of the system for years.

Fullerton resident Jennifer Harris thought she had a great deal, paying $98 a month for an individual plan. She got a rude surprise this month when the company said it would cancel her policy at the end of this year.

Now Harris, a self-employed lawyer, must shop for replacement insurance. The cheapest plan she has found will cost her $238 a month.

"It doesn't seem right to make the middle class pay so much more in order to give health insurance to everybody else," said Harris, who is three months pregnant. "This increase is simply not affordable."

middle-income consumers face an estimated 30% rate increase, on average, in California due to several factors tied to the healthcare law.

Pam Kehaly, president of Anthem Blue Cross in California, said she received a recent letter from a young woman complaining about a 50% rate hike related to the healthcare law.

"She said, 'I was all for Obamacare until I found out I was paying for it,'" Kehaly said.

Nearly 2 million Californians have individual insurance, and several hundred thousand of them are losing their health plans in a matter of weeks. [emphases added]

All of these people were contented enough with their insurance plans. After all, the California Department of Insurance has quite a reputation nationally as being one of the most stringent and demanding among all the states. Yet these insurance plans were all acceptable to the California Insurance Commissioner (California is just about the only state in the country where the insurance commissioner is an elected office; in nearly every other state it's an appointed one).

 

[Priceless]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

You'd think so, but not so much the case anymore.

First of all, the stigma of filing for bankruptcy, like the stigma of divorce, is gone.

Second, someone who has received a bankruptcy discharge is actually a pretty good credit risk. First, they don't have a pile of debt. Second, they are limited, iirc, with respect to how soon they can receive a second discharge, should they default on your loan.

You're still missing the point. It's very difficult to file bankruptcy now. You have to go through credit counseling and jump through 5 other hoops before you can get it approved now. It isn't simple anymore. My bill from Mass General for my brain tumor was over $170K. Depending on how much my insurance covered, I was looking at filing bankruptcy. I was really looking forward to the counseling. "How could you have avoided gong into debt?" 'Let the tumor kill me.'

 

[Priceless]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Hmmm

We’ve known for several years that once the Affordable Care Act is implemented, substandard insurance plans would be replaced with better, stronger coverage. Nevertheless, as lots of folks learn that their old plans are being replaced, this has led to a variety of overheated reports featuring shocked consumers. (That insurers routinely dropped Americans’ coverage under the old system is often overlooked.)

Leading much of the coverage is a woman named Dianne Barrette, a 56-year-old resident of Winter Haven, Fla., who’s made a flurry of television appearances after Blue Cross/Blue Shield informed her that her old plan is being replaced with a new one, and her new coverage will be more expensive. “What I have right now is what I’m happy with, and I just want to know why I can’t keep what I have,” she said on CBS. “Why do I have to be forced into something else?”

To his credit, the Washington Post’s Erik Wemple took a closer look at the anecdotal evidence.

More coverage may provide a deeper understanding of the ins and outs of Barrette’s situation: Her current health insurance plan, she says, doesn’t cover “extended hospital stays; it’s not designed for that,” says Barrette. Well, does it cover any hospitalization? “Outpatient only,” responds Barrette. Nor does it cover ambulance service and some prenatal care. On the other hand, says Barrette, it does cover “most of my generic drugs that I need” and there’s a $50 co-pay for doctors’ appointments. “It’s all I could afford right now,” says Barrette.

In sum, it’s a pray-that-you-don’t-really-get-sick “plan.”

If this woman had a serious ailment and was forced to stay in the hospital for a while, her old plan would have likely destroyed her financial life permanently, leaving her bankrupt. Now, thanks to “Obamacare,” in the event of a disaster, she’ll be protected with coverage her insurer can’t take away – with no annual or lifetime caps.

In other words, the new horror story for critics of the health care law features a middle-aged woman trading a bad plan for a good plan, and health care insecurity for health care security.

What’s more, while much of the coverage of Barrette’s situation has focused on the higher monthly cost of her new, better insurance plan, there’s another detail that’s been overlooked by some: she’ll be eligible for subsidies under the Affordable Care Act. The cost of the coverage isn’t what she’ll actually have to pay out of her own pocket.

If it seems like this keeps coming up, with Republicans and news outlets latching onto anecdotes that seem to cast the health care law in a negative light, only to look much better upon closer scrutiny, that’s because this keeps happening. If the law were as awful as detractors claim, shouldn’t it be easier to find legitimate victims?

 

[Old Pio]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Hmmm

"If you like the plan you have, you'll be able to keep it," except for the millions who won't.

Mule Boy and Neville's conceit here is that the lady in question is too dumb to know what's good for her. And can't make rational choices about how to allocate her income. She "needs" a "better" plan, and by Chr*st, we're gonna see that she gets it, whether she wants it or not or can afford it or not.* And her vastly increased monthly premiums will be paid for with OPM. Oh, in that case, never mind.

Have the band strike up some popular tunes while we load the lifeboats.

*no pre-natal care? Zounds. She's 56, for the love of God!!!!!!

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

We're still waiting to hear what the Republican plan for Health Care is, if you know please enlighten us?

 

[walrus]

We're still waiting to hear what the Republican plan for Health Care is, if you know please enlighten us?

So a president who flat out lies is great, fine and dandy, A-OK, as the repubs have no plan. No sticky

 

[Old Pio]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

So a president who flat out lies is great, fine and dandy, A-OK, as the repubs have no plan. No sticky

If I still had his number, I'd call Ben Nelson and ask him what he thinks of the fustercluck (and all of the creative lying) that cost him his senate seat.

 

[LynahFan]

Then why do millions of Americans not have health insurance? Why is one of the leading causes of personal bankruptcy medical debt?

Because they took delivery of a product (service) that they didn't pay for. Boo freaking hoo that getting your million dollar heart transplant should come at some personal cost. Why should that be when we could easily (apparently) have the government just hand them out for free*?

*free = other people's money.

 

[unofan]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Because they took delivery of a product (service) that they didn't pay for. Boo freaking hoo that getting your million dollar heart transplant should come at some personal cost. Why should that be when we could easily (apparently) have the government just hand them out for free*?

*free = other people's money.

Then that low cost insurance option for poor people that Fishy is spouting off about must not actually be that great of a deal, is it? If it covers nothing and still leaves you bankrupt, sounds like a scam by the insurance companies. God forbid we regulate that.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

So these subsidized insurance plans, how many people are in for a rude awakening when their $200/month premium is actually more like $400/month and that it only becomes $200/month after you file your annual taxes? How many people are planning their monthly cash outlays/budgets for one number only to find out that they'll really need much more? See, when you sign the insurance contract, it specifically states that insured person owes the full premium, that the government money is more of an annual reimbursement/tax credit. 2014 and up through the 2015 tax filings should be an interesting and sad event.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

So these subsidized insurance plans, how many people are in for a rude awakening when their $200/month premium is actually more like $400/month and that it only becomes $200/month after you file your annual taxes? How many people are planning their monthly cash outlays/budgets for one number only to find out that they'll really need much more? See, when you sign the insurance contract, it specifically states that insured person owes the full premium, that the government money is more of an annual reimbursement/tax credit. 2014 and up through the 2015 tax filings should be an interesting and sad event.

And for those who do itemize deductions-to take a medical deduction you now have to exceed 10% of your AGI instead of previously when it was 7.5%. So higher premiums charged which are also less deductible? "No one who makes under $250,000 will see an increase in their taxes" can be added to "If you like your health plan, you can keep it." This makes me quite upset-but it could be worse-for the most part i am my own doctor and Jenny's doctor, so at least the part about "if you like your own doctor you get to keep him." (although i am not sure we can afford me with my taxes going up due to the lower allowed medical deduction)

 

[Tiggsy]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

We're still waiting to hear what the Republican plan for Health Care is, if you know please enlighten us?

I know what it is... it's not forcing people out of their insurance plans and current doctors. Sounds like an improvement to me with what's going on.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

So a president who flat out lies is great, fine and dandy, A-OK, as the repubs have no plan. No sticky

George lied to me. Numerous times. Seems to me every President since I've been alive has lied except maybe Jimmy.

I know what it is... it's not forcing people out of their insurance plans and current doctors. Sounds like an improvement to me with what's going on.

That did wonders for the millions of uninsured and the 3 out of 5 bankruptcies that occur due to Health Care. Try again.

Here's another great part of the Republican Plan.

From Wikipedia:

In 2005 CEO Dr. McGuire's compensation was estimated to be between $59,625,444 and $124,800,000.

On October 15, 2006, it was announced that Dr. McGuire would step down immediately as chairman and director of UnitedHealth Group, and step down as CEO on December 1, 2006. McGuire's exit compensation from UnitedHealth, expected to be around $1.1 billion, would be the largest golden parachute in the history of corporate America.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

You're still missing the point. It's very difficult to file bankruptcy now. You have to go through credit counseling and jump through 5 other hoops before you can get it approved now. It isn't simple anymore. My bill from Mass General for my brain tumor was over $170K. Depending on how much my insurance covered, I was looking at filing bankruptcy. I was really looking forward to the counseling. "How could you have avoided gong into debt?" 'Let the tumor kill me.'

Actually, no it's not, but that was a nice little bit of media frenzy that created a big boon for bankruptcy attorneys back in 2005 when the law was changed.

If you look at the Federal bankruptcy court statistics going back to 2001, and dealing with the "non-business" filings (since we got onto this topic due to individuals being overwhelmed by medical bills), you'll see the numbers for Chapters 7 (liquidation), 11 (big income, big debt reorganization) and 13 (limited debt, limited income reorganization). http://www.uscourts.gov/Statistics/BankruptcyStatistics/12-month-period-ending-december.aspx

Chapter 7, the complete startover method is far and away the most common method selected.

Between 2001 and 2004 Chapter 7 filings ran between 1,031,493 and 1,156,274, or about 1.1 million annually, on average.

Then 2005 came and the big burst of coverage proclaiming the impossibility of filing for bankruptcy when the law became effective at the end of the year, and we see a 50% spike to 1,631,011.

Then, of course, the numbers dropped off remarkably in 2006, likely due to multiple factors, including many who would have filed in 2006 hurried up and filed in 2005, while others accepted the impossibility of their situation and likely didn't even try.

By 2009 and 2010 we were back up over one million filers annually in Chapter 7, and back to the 1.4-1.5 million total in the non-business category.

To me the only interesting, and noticeable change in bankruptcy filings over the last dozen years (minus the 2005 spike), is the fact that Chapter 11 filings, those with unlimited incomes and unlimited debts, have doubled, on average. Admittedly it's a small number anyway, but you used to see around 900-1000 annually, and now they run as high as 1900 annually, and 1500-1600 on average.

Filing for bankruptcy is not the Sisyphean task some make it out to be. They make you jump through some hoops, but obviously it's being done, and if not at the same levels as before the law changed, not remarkably different.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Filing for bankruptcy is not the Sisyphean task some make it out to be. They make you jump through some hoops, but obviously it's being done, and if not at the same levels as before the law changed, not remarkably different.

I worked for a bankruptcy attorney for a year. The whole Chapter 7 process is a turnkey approach from start to finish. You enter client data into a software program and it populates all the forms, you print them out, client signs, attorney goes to court: he could do maybe 16 - 20 hearings in a day as each one takes 15 minutes or so.

I'd say about 40% of the filings were due to uninsured medical bills that totalled over $10,000.

Ironically, the health insurance plan that is being trashed in the left-wing press is the same plan that would have saved most people much grief, which is the higher deductible plan. A plan with a $3,000 deductible would still be burdensome, but it also would be affordable and allow people to get the catastrophic coverage they'd need without shifting all the excess costs to be paid by the rest of us.

A higher deductible plan also empowers people to become smarter shoppers, reducing their costs, because they actually see the price tag and respond accordingly.

When I was in my 20s, I had a plan with a $5,000 deductible (probably akin to $12,500 today). I negotiated my fees for routine and customary visits, the doctors always would agree to a lower sum because there was no paperwork involved which reduced their overhead. I have no doubt whatsoever that when private insurance was involved, the doctors and hospitals would adjust their billing upward accordingly.

Now, I'm already starting to look into the "concierge" type plan. While I'm not quite old enough yet for Medicare, it seems absurd to me that we aren't allowed to opt out of Medicare even if we want to. Why are we forced to subject ourselves to second-rate coverage even if we don't want it?

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

I've seen variations of this theme in several places.

Republicans on the [House] committee are expected to talk about a bill they introduced Monday that would authorize insurance carriers to continue offering all plans currently sold on the individual market

Johnson (R- WI) introduced or is introducing a similar bill in the Senate.

These bills seem so reasonable: "if you like your current health insurance plan, you can keep it." How will the Ds vote? To honor their President's promise and uphold his word? or to put their electoral prospects at risk for 2014 to defend an increasingly unpopular bill that now seems to have been deliberately marketed with known falsehoods?


I'm disappointed that so many people are responding "so what if the President deliberately lied? it was for people's own good." Really? you like being treated like an incompetent child? that's your best defense??

 

[Old Pio]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

George lied to me. Numerous times. Seems to me every President since I've been alive has lied except maybe Jimmy.



That did wonders for the millions of uninsured and the 3 out of 5 bankruptcies that occur due to Health Care. Try again.

Here's another great part of the Republican Plan.

And what does any of that self serving agit-prop have to do with the turkey the Democrats delivered to the American people? Why on earth do the ladies of the chorale continue to make the same logical fallacy? Didn't this cheap suit from Chicago tell us he was better than all of that? Smarter, too? Transparent, even. Well, he's transparent, all right. A transparent liar. And the American people are beginning to catch on.

"Bush lied and people died" may still give you a reltney. But it's an artifact of a bygone age. And proves how hollow your arguments are.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

And what does any of that self serving agit-prop have to do with the turkey the Democrats delivered to the American people? Why on earth do the ladies of the chorale continue to make the same logical fallacy? Didn't this cheap suit from Chicago tell us he was better than all of that? Smarter, too? Transparent, even. Well, he's transparent, all right. A transparent liar. And the American people are beginning to catch on.

Good, catch on all they want. They've already caught on to the alternative (Cruz) and they don't like that either. One thing is for certain in all this mess. Obama would have been better off if he had let the Republicans kill this bill before it ever became law.

Seems Microsoft and Amazon offered to help with the website and the Government turned them down. Whoever made the decisions about who to hire to develop this website might be the most incompetent moron ever to serve in Washington.