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The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

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Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

Patman said:
"progressive" has been code for "socialist" for years even before 2000... hence the "progressive caucus"... since Dems believe their beliefs as the ultimate of social progress that makes them "progressive"... also who would disagree with "progress"?
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For some years, sure. Just not all that many years. The original progressives were Republicans, not socialists.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

WeWantMore said:
They were called Republicans, their policies were left of center though
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Eh, I think they're a little harder to pin down that that. From today's perspective they're all over the map. Some reforms would be embraced by Dems, some would be embraced by Repubs. The most accurate label, I think, would be populist.

My point was mainly that there were actual, honest-to-God socialists at the time, and they were not Progressives. The equation of progressivism with socialism came later.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

I imagine the 8 straight justices will be enough to ensure our rights as heterosexuals are not trampled by the gay mob at the gates.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

BoomGoestheDynamite said:
I imagine the 8 straight justices will be enough to ensure our rights as heterosexuals are not trampled by the gay mob at the gates.
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Oh noes- any exposure might polute the poor ignorant masses and swing them the other way. You do know that the slightest exposure will make us all forget our heterosexual leanings.:eek:

Sometimes I want to ask these people why they are so convinced there are so many weak people just waiting to convert to what ever they are protecting us against.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

In these matters, the Constitution explicitly requires the Senate to provide advice and sanctimony.

These folks are just making sure Congress upholds its duty.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

amherstblackbear said:
Eh, I think they're a little harder to pin down that that. From today's perspective they're all over the map. Some reforms would be embraced by Dems, some would be embraced by Repubs. The most accurate label, I think, would be populist.

My point was mainly that there were actual, honest-to-God socialists at the time, and they were not Progressives. The equation of progressivism with socialism came later.
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Oh, I definitely agree with your 2nd paragraph. Which reforms do you think would be embraced by Republicans?
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

WeWantMore said:
Oh, I definitely agree with your 2nd paragraph. Which reforms do you think would be embraced by Republicans?
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Reform is probably the wrong word. Maybe ethos is better. The ethos that government has a role in engineering social progress seems consistent with present-day liberals. But there was more of a place for local government in progressivism than there is among today's liberals. Progressive support for public education is consistent with today's liberals. But it was tied to weird combination of nationalism and evangelical protestantism (social gospel movement) that would be utterly alien to current liberals. In their way, Progressives favored judicial restraint and rolling back the strategic use of entitlements to maintain political support (e.g., the dramatic expansion of the Union Army Pension Fund from a relief program to a central cog in the Republican Party machine).

There's definitely ammunition if you want to compare progressives to liberals of today. But they'd be very, very, very weird liberals.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

amherstblackbear said:
Reform is probably the wrong word. Maybe ethos is better. The ethos that government has a role in engineering social progress seems consistent with present-day liberals.
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But it's hardly unique to present-day liberals; political activists and that darned government have been forcing this crap on us since the Thirteenth Amendment.

(My point, before anyone misconstrues it and claims I'm calling conservatives racists or whatever, is simply that "government as an engine for an egalitarian society" is hardly something that just popped up within the last 40 years.)
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

jmh said:
"government as an engine for an egalitarian society" is hardly something that just popped up within the last 40 years.
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From Noah Webster, An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, 1787:
A general and tolerably equal distribution of landed property is the whole basis of national freedom: The system of the great Montesquieu will ever be erroneous, till the words property or lands in fee simple are substituted for virtue, throughout his Spirit of Laws.
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An equality of property, with a necessity of alienation, constantly operating to destroy combinations of powerful families, is the very soul of a republic--While this continues, the people will inevitably possess both power and freedom; when this is lost, power departs, liberty expires, and a commonwealth will inevitably assume some other form.
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Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

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That's a man baby!!!!!!
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

amherstblackbear said:
There's definitely ammunition if you want to compare progressives to liberals of today. But they'd be very, very, very weird liberals.
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The issues of the day were different and their intellectual and ideological underpinning, both for Progressives and their opponents, were all different. The political system of the Progressive Era was just a different world. What can you say about a movement whose platform included all of the following:

Union busting
Trust busting
Creation of the Federal Reserve
Tariff reduction
Direct primaries
Ballot initiative, referendum and recall
Creation of the Civil Service
Temperance
Creation of the National Park System
Sale of public lands to build dams and canals for industry


They were all over the ****ing map.
 
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Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

Kepler said:
What can you say about a movement whose platform included all of the following:

Union busting
Trust busting
Creation of the Federal Reserve
Tariff reduction
Direct primaries
Ballot initiative, referendum and recall
Creation of the Civil Service
Temperance
Creation of the National Park System
Sale of public lands to build dams and canals for industry
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A loose coalition of special interests?
 
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