The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

[unofan]

Came across this piece on how kids do better with a mother and father. Lots of scholarship and citations for those who are pleased by such things.

http://www.adfmedia.org/files/HollingsworthAmicusSocialScienceProfessors.pdf

It's even got Justice Brennan weighing in.

That's fine, but has nothing to do with anything considering plenty of people who are married don't or can't have kids. Why does Arizona allow first cousins to marry provided they are barren if that's the rationale for marriage?

 

[Kepler]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Came across this piece on how kids do better with a mother and father. Lots of scholarship and citations for those who are pleased by such things.

http://www.adfmedia.org/files/HollingsworthAmicusSocialScienceProfessors.pdf

It's even got Justice Brennan weighing in.

Put it right beside this.

 

[Foxton]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Put it right beside this.

I always prefer this

 

[LynahFan]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Came across this piece on how kids do better with a mother and father. Lots of scholarship and citations for those who are pleased by such things.

http://www.adfmedia.org/files/HollingsworthAmicusSocialScienceProfessors.pdf

It's even got Justice Brennan weighing in.

If the state had any sort of compelling interest in making sure that children are only ever raised in the most optimal of situations, there would be a whole lot fewer hetero marriages, too. There's no "parental suitability test" that hetero couples need to pass to get a marriage license, so automatic disqualifying of same-sex couples on their presumed unsuitability is an unequal application of the law.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Came across this piece on how kids do better with a mother and father. Lots of scholarship and citations for those who are pleased by such things.

http://www.adfmedia.org/files/HollingsworthAmicusSocialScienceProfessors.pdf

It's even got Justice Brennan weighing in.

Here's the way I look at it Bob.

Do I think the odds of children "doing better" (assuming everyone can even agree what to "do better" is), increases in a household with a father and a mother? I do. I think there are certain things a father brings to parenting that a mother may have more difficulty with, and vice versa.

But do I think kids growing up say in southern Connecticut have a higher chance at that same better outcome than a kid growing up in Nogales, AZ, or Meridian, MS? I do.

Just like I think that a kid growing up in a white household currently has a higher chance at a better outcome than a kid growing up in an African American household.

Those odds are created by a variety of socioeconomic and racial issues that presently exist in this country.

But just because your odds are not as good, just because kids may not do as well in a non-traditional household, according to certain opinions, does that mean that those in non-traditional households don't at least get to try?

 

[burd]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

I've seen some men that wasn't men and some women that wasn't women. There's that.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Well, I'm impressed and awarding you full both ears and the tail.

In SCOTUS news, deciding by not deciding. People are now free to marry in Indiana, Oklahoma, Utah, Virginia and Wisconsin. When a position is too troglodytic for Oklahoma and Utah... um... I guess Mississippi is left?

That's more or less what I expected would happen. With no circuit split, I'm not sure why people were expecting the court to take it up.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

And to come with announcement, a challenge to Alaska's ban is being heard on Friday. Granted, it's in District Court and Alaska is part of that bastion of "liberal activist judges" the 9th Circuit.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Put it right beside this.

No connection whatsoever, but your scare tactics do work on some of the sheeple.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Here's the way I look at it Bob.

Do I think the odds of children "doing better" (assuming everyone can even agree what to "do better" is), increases in a household with a father and a mother? I do. I think there are certain things a father brings to parenting that a mother may have more difficulty with, and vice versa.

But do I think kids growing up say in southern Connecticut have a higher chance at that same better outcome than a kid growing up in Nogales, AZ, or Meridian, MS? I do.

Just like I think that a kid growing up in a white household currently has a higher chance at a better outcome than a kid growing up in an African American household.

Those odds are created by a variety of socioeconomic and racial issues that presently exist in this country.

But just because your odds are not as good, just because kids may not do as well in a non-traditional household, according to certain opinions, does that mean that those in non-traditional households don't at least get to try?

I posted it because we've had a variety of folks on here in the past that claim that there is no difference whatsoever regardless of who the parents are and there isn't any inherent value in having male and female parents for children. I knew a bunch of those same folks would go on a whingefest, but at least they can't claim they haven't been presented solid evidence that rebuts their position.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Put it right beside this.

The comments section on that site is just wild. I especially like the person pretending to be a black woman who's talking and agreeing with the white racist about her inferiority. I'm really curious as to what the content of the deleted coments were. Those had to be some posts made by a sane person who happened to stumble upon that garbage.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

It sure would be nice if we had a male dad and a female mom for every kid, but, we don't. In many cases we only have one parent families. What's the study on one parent households vs. gay parent households? I bet a stable loving gay family is better than a one parent one.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Amazing the amount of hate the traditional nuclear family gets. One of many signs that the social fabric of the nation continues to tear. One good thing about the influx of Hispanics is that they tend to value family a lot more than Anglo American white culture does anymore.

But, haters gonna hate. Nothing one can do about that.

 

[Rover]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

If the state had any sort of compelling interest in making sure that children are only ever raised in the most optimal of situations, there would be a whole lot fewer hetero marriages, too. There's no "parental suitability test" that hetero couples need to pass to get a marriage license, so automatic disqualifying of same-sex couples on their presumed unsuitability is an unequal application of the law.

There's no place for logic in this discussion Lynah. Get with it, will ya?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Amazing the amount of hate the traditional nuclear family gets. One of many signs that the social fabric of the nation continues to tear. One good thing about the influx of Hispanics is that they tend to value family a lot more than Anglo American white culture does anymore.

LOL

Maybe if more kids grew up in good nuclear family homes there wouldn't be so much hate? You see too much black and white, Bob. There's a big big world of grey out there.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

No connection whatsoever, but your scare tactics do work on some of the sheeple.

The connection is people trying to rationalize their prejudice by cherry-picking data.

You're accusing me of scare tactics? You're the one implying that gay marriages will produce unhappy children. That is a scare tactic.

Ask yourself this, Bob. Is there any possible weight of empirical evidence that would change your opinion on gay marriage? And then go further and ask your conservative self this: even if there was such evidence, would it be powerful enough -- if it were on the other side -- to negate your default position that people should be free to make their own decisions and live their own lives?

 

[Kepler]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Amazing the amount of hate the traditional nuclear family gets. One of many signs that the social fabric of the nation continues to tear. One good thing about the influx of Hispanics is that they tend to value family a lot more than Anglo American white culture does anymore.

But, haters gonna hate. Nothing one can do about that.

Yes, because we are trying to stop people from having nuclear families; we're writing laws that say people can't have nuclear families. Haven't you heard about the No More Hetero Families Bill in Congress?

Listen to yourself. Your side are the ones using law for coercion. If not fear and hatred, what is that motivated by? My side isn't saying jack about nuclear families -- I am the product of one and I have created one with my family. I support them. My side is comfortable with having all sorts of families make up the world. Your side is saying "No, one flavor only! If you live your life your way that makes ME uncomfortable! So uncomfortable I'm going to stop you!"

Your position burdens everyone with your preference. My position burdens nobody -- it just lets people live.

 

[GrinCDXX]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Yes, because we trying to stop people from having nuclear families; we're writing laws that say people can't have nuclear families.

Listen to yourself. Your side are the ones using law for coercion. If not fear and hatred, what is that motivated by? My side isn't saying jack about nuclear families -- I am the product of one and I have created one with my family. I support them. My side is comfortable with having all sorts of families make up the world. Your side is saying "No, one flavor only! If you live your life your way that makes ME uncomfortable!"

Your position burden's everyone with your preference. My position burdens nobody -- it just lets people live.

This idea of hatred for the traditional family is right up there with the concept of the oppressed white christian male. What's actually amazing, is things like this can be uttered with a straight (no pun intended) face.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

There's no place for logic in this discussion Lynah. Get with it, will ya?

Yes, there is. Bob is logical. From many of his posts he seems to be a kind and gentle person. I believe he takes the responsibility to love one another seriously and acts on it in his daily life.

I am frustrated that I cannot show him that what he's doing is the exact equivalent of our ancestors who gave "reasons" why interfaith marriage and interracial marriage were socially and personally damaging. He's trapped here.

To be fair to Bob, I don't think he's grimly holding on because he grew up in a world where this bigotry was universal and he's not accepting that the world has changed. That would be an illogical position and no arguing with it. I believe even if he grew up in a world where gay marriage had been legal and socially accepted he would still be against it with the same vehemence, because it comes from a moral core that says things like "murder is wrong, no matter whether society approves it." I respect that and I believe it is motivated from a logical center. But because I really like Bob (I mean, he is my running mate) I would like to at least be able to have a conversation that drills down to the central logical difference.

Putting it another way, let's say you had a friend who was completely logical in every way except he hated Belgians. How would you go about even setting up a fair hearing on the hatred of Belgians for the purpose of one of you convincing the other? (I mean, after all, I suppose he could be right about Belgians.) I'm not smart enough to figure out how to set up a critical test that would be acceptable both parties.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Amazing the amount of hate the traditional nuclear family gets. One of many signs that the social fabric of the nation continues to tear.

<img src=http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/images/smilies/facepalm.gif></img>

If Bob says it, it must be true. We're doomed!

Ask yourself this, Bob. Is there any possible weight of empirical evidence that would change your opinion on gay marriage? And then go further and ask your conservative self this: even if there was such evidence, would it be powerful enough -- if it were on the other side -- to negate your default position that people should be free to make their own decisions and live their own lives?

Don't you know the KJV Bible trumps all that liberal science?