The New WCHA, 2014 Offseason: See-ya, Bruce

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The New WCHA, 2014 Offseason: See-ya, Bruce

Yes. That's why I said I only sort of disagreed with FTB&G. I think Bruce could see what the problem was. He just didn't see a way to reach a conclusion that he could live with. To borrow from The Godfather, there are wartime consiglieres and peacetime consiglieres. Bruce was a good peacetime consigliere, but wasn't able to manage things through when the war broke out.

And to be fair, I'm not sure anyone could have stopped what happen.

 

[giwan]

Re: The New WCHA, 2014 Offseason: See-ya, Bruce

And to be fair, I'm not sure anyone could have stopped what happen.

That was not a situation that needed to be solved when the war hit. It needed solving before that.

Nothing wrong in a changing tide if it helps all the ships to rise. As discussed look at the SEC, big ten, compared to the Big 12 (which is just about Texas)

How long will the now low pegs of the NCHC rethink their decision? Maybe not if they are getting a comparably better check, but if that check is less, or the same and they are now not getting to the playoffs or a tournament invite well....?

 

[JohnsonsJerseys]

Re: The New WCHA, 2014 Offseason: See-ya, Bruce

How long will the now low pegs of the NCHC rethink their decision? Maybe not if they are getting a comparably better check, but if that check is less, or the same and they are now not getting to the playoffs or a tournament invite well....?

Nothing would please me more than to see Miami and Western join Hockey East or SCSU and UMD rejoin the WCHA in about 2-3 years. Not so much to grow those other conferences (I'm really not in favor of HE, ECAC, AH or the WCHA adding a team unless they are an expansion team) but more so just to let DU and UND twist in the wind for a while.

Ryan J

 

[BGFan]

Re: The New WCHA, 2014 Offseason: See-ya, Bruce

Nothing would please me more than to see Miami and Western join Hockey East or SCSU and UMD rejoin the WCHA in about 2-3 years. Not so much to grow those other conferences (I'm really not in favor of HE, ECAC, AH or the WCHA adding a team unless they are an expansion team) but more so just to let DU and UND twist in the wind for a while.

Ryan J

You'll more likely see Miami and Western Michigan leave to join a newly formed CCHA with Bowling Green, Ferris, and whoever else from the current WCHA that want to cut travel costs. There are plenty of other teams in the vicinity to round out a new CCHA. Forming the NCHC was a huge mistake. Economically and geographically speaking, it only makes sense that another reorg will occur. Will the remaining schools in the NCHC swallow their pride and rejoin the WCHA? It would make sense if they did.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: The New WCHA, 2014 Offseason: See-ya, Bruce

You'll more likely see Miami and Western Michigan leave to join a newly formed CCHA with Bowling Green, Ferris, and whoever else from the current WCHA that want to cut travel costs. There are plenty of other teams in the vicinity to round out a new CCHA. Forming the NCHC was a huge mistake. Economically and geographically speaking, it only makes sense that another reorg will occur. Will the remaining schools in the NCHC swallow their pride and rejoin the WCHA? It would make sense if they did.

No chance, and if this whole thing is not handled right it could be that a few schools drop hockey altogether. I realize that a number of teams are unhappy with the travel costs, but that was a super one time good deal. Maybe we could get WMU and miami into the wcha with no other changes, then have an east and a west division.

 

[beaverhockeyfan]

Re: The New WCHA, 2014 Offseason: See-ya, Bruce

No chance, and if this whole thing is not handled right it could be that a few schools drop hockey altogether. I realize that a number of teams are unhappy with the travel costs, but that was a super one time good deal. Maybe we could get WMU and miami into the wcha with no other changes, then have an east and a west division.

If that happened, I could see the NCHC possibly offering an invite to Mankato and Bemidji to stay at 8 teams. Mankato and Bemidji would pick up bus trips to Duluth, Grand Forks, St. Cloud and Omaha in exchange of those to Bowling Green, Ferris State, Lake Superior and Northern Michigan.

I would miss the games with UAH though.......

 

[blackswampboy]

Re: The New WCHA, 2014 Offseason: See-ya, Bruce

here's the list of WCHA guys currently at development camps (courtesy of http://collegehockeyinc.com/pages/ncaa-players-2014-nhl-development-camps

Alaska:
MTL Koberstein, Nikolas Alaska 2015 Draft
STL Parayko, Colton Alaska Jr. Draft
WSH Basara, Marcus Alaska So. FA

Anchorage:
ANA Bailey, Matt Alaska Anchorage Alum Contract
CGY Allen, Scott Alaska Anchorage Sr. FA
WPG Tatchell, Blake Alaska Anchorage Jr. FA

BSU:
WPG Harms, Brendan Bemidji State So. FA

BGSU:
OTT Hammond, Andrew Bowling Green Alum Contract
SJ Carpenter, Ryan Bowling Green Alum Contract
SJ Reichert, Jakob Bowling Green Fr. FA
DET Cooper, Mark Bowling Green Jr. FA
WPG Freibergs, Ralfs Bowling Green Jr. FA

Ferris:
DET Czarnowczan, Scott Ferris State Alum FA
OTT Thompson, Garrett Ferris State Alum Contract
MTL Motte, C.J. Ferris State Sr. FA

LSSU:
NYI Czuczman, Kevin Lake Superior State Alum Contract
OTT Robinson, Buddy Lake Superior State Alum Contract
BOS Globke, Alex Lake Superior State So. FA
DET Globke, Alex Lake Superior State So. FA
WSH Loesch, Zach Lake Superior State Jr. FA

Tech:
WSH Copley, Pheonix Michigan Tech Alum Contract
SJ Jackson, Jake Michigan Tech Fr. Draft
WPG Phillips, Jamie Michigan Tech Jr. Draft
SJ Watson, Cliff Michigan Tech So. Draft
WPG Hanna, Shane Michigan Tech So. FA
DET Johnstone, David Michigan Tech Sr. FA
MIN Kero, Tanner Michigan Tech Sr. FA
WPG Sturos, Reid Michigan Tech So. FA

Mankato:
SJ Hayes, Eriah Minnesota State Alum Contract
NYI Williams, Stephon Minnesota State Jr. Draft
NSH Stepan, Zach Minnesota State So. Draft
CGY Huggins, Cole Minnesota State So. FA
MIN Palmquist, Zach Minnesota State Sr. FA
WPG Franklin, C.J. Minnesota State Fr. Draft

NMU:
DET Coreau, Jared Northern Michigan Alum Contract
EDM Ludwig, C.J. Northern Michigan Alum FA
WSH Epp, Wade Northern Michigan Alum FA

#WeAreBG #RollAlong

 

[JohnsonsJerseys]

Re: The New WCHA, 2014 Offseason: See-ya, Bruce

here's the list of WCHA guys currently at development camps (courtesy of http://collegehockeyinc.com/pages/ncaa-players-2014-nhl-development-camps):

I can't tell you how rare it is to see a ranking or list that includes Michigan Tech where we almost look impressive.
I'm just going to let that one soak in for a bit...
Now if we could just turn that talent into wins, we'll have something worth discussing.
I'm pretty sure Union and Yale didn't even have a list like that and clearly they didn't need one.

Ryan J

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: The New WCHA, 2014 Offseason: See-ya, Bruce

Tech's list is missing Blake Pietila. He must be at Devils camp.

 

[JohnsonsJerseys]

Re: The New WCHA, 2014 Offseason: See-ya, Bruce

You'll more likely see Miami and Western Michigan leave to join a newly formed CCHA with Bowling Green, Ferris, and whoever else from the current WCHA that want to cut travel costs.

I don't think anyone is going to leave the NCHC based on budget reasons unless they were made promises for $XXXXX revenue, and the league fails to deliver on them year after year. They knew going in what their cost would be for a league where you can hardly bus anywhere. In my opinion the only thing that is going to drive teams away is either being a doormat year after year or if a couple of the teams try to strong arm others into changes down the road that only favor a few members.

As much as I would have liked to see the CCHA survive, it isn't going to come back made up the old members. The four teams you mentioned would make a nice core for a conference, but now you have to convince members to join who are going to be on the fringe of the geography (AH teams in PA, NY for example). Their first question will be "What's in it for us, other than to make your travel budget smaller and ours larger?".

Given how the CHA unraveled at the end and how skinny the B10 looks, I don't think anyone wants a conference with less than 8 teams, especially if the conference doesn't exist for other sports. Look at how desperate the NCHC got to find another team once Notre Dame snubbed them. They didn't want an odd number and they certainly didn't want to go with six teams.

I think there is a better chance of a bigger WCHA with two divisions that there is of the CCHA being reborn. The big hurdle to that however is that we now have two AK teams who will almost certainly want to be in the same division. And all the other teams who might get lumped in with them as the West division, certainly don't want two trips to AK every season if money is as tight as everyone claims it to be with some programs.
Ryan J

 

[Critical Thinker]

Re: The New WCHA, 2014 Offseason: See-ya, Bruce

I think there is a better chance of a bigger WCHA with two divisions that there is of the CCHA being reborn. The big hurdle to that however is that we now have two AK teams who will almost certainly want to be in the same division. And all the other teams who might get lumped in with them as the West division, certainly don't want two trips to AK every season if money is as tight as everyone claims it to be with some programs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but since the Alaskas just went a fairly long time in different conferences, I don't think there's a massive desire from the Alaskas to be in the same division. Couldn't you also separate the Alaskas, but guarantee they get 2 series with each other, with the rest of the WCHA getting 2 cross-over series to balance it out?

 

[BGFan]

Re: The New WCHA, 2014 Offseason: See-ya, Bruce

I don't think anyone is going to leave the NCHC based on budget reasons unless they were made promises for $XXXXX revenue, and the league fails to deliver on them year after year. They knew going in what their cost would be for a league where you can hardly bus anywhere. In my opinion the only thing that is going to drive teams away is either being a doormat year after year or if a couple of the teams try to strong arm others into changes down the road that only favor a few members.

As much as I would have liked to see the CCHA survive, it isn't going to come back made up the old members. The four teams you mentioned would make a nice core for a conference, but now you have to convince members to join who are going to be on the fringe of the geography (AH teams in PA, NY for example). Their first question will be "What's in it for us, other than to make your travel budget smaller and ours larger?".

Given how the CHA unraveled at the end and how skinny the B10 looks, I don't think anyone wants a conference with less than 8 teams, especially if the conference doesn't exist for other sports. Look at how desperate the NCHC got to find another team once Notre Dame snubbed them. They didn't want an odd number and they certainly didn't want to go with six teams.

I think there is a better chance of a bigger WCHA with two divisions that there is of the CCHA being reborn. The big hurdle to that however is that we now have two AK teams who will almost certainly want to be in the same division. And all the other teams who might get lumped in with them as the West division, certainly don't want two trips to AK every season if money is as tight as everyone claims it to be with some programs.
Ryan J

Both Miami and WMU made knee jerk reactions when deciding to join the NCHC w/o much consideration for the travel costs. You need to bear in mind that both of them, as well as BG are D1 in all sports including the monetary responsibilities that go along with that. Being from the MAC doesn't exactly bring in the big bucks like being from the Big Whatever, so money issues are constant. Are both of those teams covering their costs of being in the NCHC? I doubt it. An east/west division of the WCHA may be a possibility but I think the reformation of the CCHA may be more likely. I would imagine that Robert Morris and Niagara would be open to it, and most likely UAH since their location is more in line with the Midwest. Time will tell but I can guarantee that something is in the works.

 

[davyd83]

Re: The New WCHA, 2014 Offseason: See-ya, Bruce

You'll more likely see Miami and Western Michigan leave to join a newly formed CCHA with Bowling Green, Ferris, and whoever else from the current WCHA that want to cut travel costs. There are plenty of other teams in the vicinity to round out a new CCHA. Forming the NCHC was a huge mistake. Economically and geographically speaking, it only makes sense that another reorg will occur. Will the remaining schools in the NCHC swallow their pride and rejoin the WCHA? It would make sense if they did.

There was a lot of discussion among the higher ups at the "final" CCHA tourney about the fact that it might not really be the last one after all. The biggest problem for Miami and Western is that Colorado College and UMD aren't putting any more people in the seats than NMU and Lake State did. In fact, attendance was down at both of those schools. Attendance also dropped at CC, Denver and UNO. North Dakota was down slightly while UMD and St Cloud were pretty similar to the previous year. The biggest increase in expenses were for Miami and Western, having to fly to nearly every opponent except one another. The spot where the old WCHA schools took the biggest hit was from the loss of conference tourney revenue. I hate to say it, but that's not coming back if there is no chance to have the Gophers at the XCel. It would improve with all the other Minnesota schools in the conference. But it will never be what it once was. Don't count a reformed CCHA out, it just may not fly under that banner again. I do believe that we will still have 3 leagues in the West (counting the big ten), it just remains to be seen who is where.

 

[aparch]

Re: The New WCHA, 2014 Offseason: See-ya, Bruce

Both Miami and WMU made knee jerk reactions when deciding to join the NCHC w/o much consideration for the travel costs. You need to bear in mind that both of them, as well as BG are D1 in all sports including the monetary responsibilities that go along with that. Being from the MAC doesn't exactly bring in the big bucks like being from the Big Whatever, so money issues are constant. Are both of those teams covering their costs of being in the NCHC? I doubt it. An east/west division of the WCHA may be a possibility but I think the reformation of the CCHA may be more likely. I would imagine that Robert Morris and Niagara would be open to it, and most likely UAH since their location is more in line with the Midwest. Time will tell but I can guarantee that something is in the works.

Miami was practically a founding member. Denver and NoDak were the driving forces, with Miami (tied to Denver) and Omaha (tied to NoDak) were next. They convinced Colorado College (rival and hip-bone mate to Denver) and somehow Duluth (???) to be the founding schools of the Motel 6 League... err NCHC. Maybe travel wasn't well thought of by this point, but being a founding member means they should have given it a passing thought.

St. Cloud flat out said "No" because they were convinced (rightly) that the NCHC was just built upon the fantasy profits those schools felt that UAA and MTU were leeching off of the WCHA. It wasn't until the NCHC wanted to upgrade to the Super 8 Hotel League by bringing Notre Dame and their NBC television contract to the league that SCSU changed their tune (the alumni fanbase was in full Jan Brady "Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!" mode wanting to "improve" their league standing). WMU tripped over themselves creating their "Why Western?" campaign... when they had a WCHA invitation waiting for them.

When Notre Dame "Lebron'd" it and took their talents to the North Shore, that left the two schools with a combined ONE NCAA tournament win in their COMBINED school histories to be the final bridesmaids selected by the NCHC.



I really think the CCHA is just dormant and not dead. Bowling Green set themselves up pretty well to be in the drivers seat for the new conference by retaining the records and rights to the CCHA, using the history of being the only school to see the CCHA from start to finish without leaving or folding. Plus, a new conference would get an auto-bid. There would be no second auto-bid for each East and West winner of a divided WCHA.

 

[davyd83]

Re: The New WCHA, 2014 Offseason: See-ya, Bruce

Correct me if I'm wrong, but since the Alaskas just went a fairly long time in different conferences, I don't think there's a massive desire from the Alaskas to be in the same division. Couldn't you also separate the Alaskas, but guarantee they get 2 series with each other, with the rest of the WCHA getting 2 cross-over series to balance it out?

Apparently you haven't talked to many people from the Alaska schools. They have always played a single series plus participated in each other's early season showcases. And there was a great deal of excitement about four games plus a conference tie. But, and I know the uaafanblogger will likely excoriate me for this, if there is another reformation, it's unlikely the Alaska schools will remain together under the current terms.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: The New WCHA, 2014 Offseason: See-ya, Bruce

if you dropped bg and ferris from the wcha it might be the end for lssu. think about it. they would have a set of much longer trips than before, whether they go to bg and friends or to Tech and friends.

What if you only dropped one team, and picked up one team. say Duluth for BG.

Otherwise you have a money issue with the nchc teams. I'm sure the money is not what they expected but there is no way they are eating crow and un doing what they did. Will the money change, not likely, but the tv deal might get a bit better which could possibly persuade them to stay where they are.

I'm sure there will be changes, but I fear that whatever selfish change comes about, it will hurt someone else without intending to.

also I think the WCHA might end up with a little more money based on the new commish doing something positive tv wise.

 

[Alaska Hockey]

Re: The New WCHA, 2014 Offseason: See-ya, Bruce

this is what it's all about.... who can make me "more money" i saw this football item and it fits all sports teams.

Then there's the money.
In May, the Big 12 announced a record $221 million in revenue last season, $23 million more than the previous season. And with there being only 10 teams in the conference now, that meant more money for each school.
But in explaining his happiness with that 'Perfect 10,' did Luck take a shot at BYU's worthiness (or lack thereof) of conference membership?
"Our denominator is 10," said Luck, the father of Colts QB Andrew Luck. "The more you split it up ... I don't think we can find a partner who's available right now to stay at the value we have (per school) or let alone increase what we have. That's the consensus we have (staying at 10)."

 

[John J. MacInnes]

Re: The New WCHA, 2014 Offseason: See-ya, Bruce

What if you only dropped one team, and picked up one team. say Duluth for BG.

The way I understand the NCAA Rules committee, any conference that has no Division I members is not included in the committee. Since BG is the only D-1 school in the WCHA, the league loses its seat if they exit and are not replaced with another D-1. That would be a bad situation.

 

[Squarebanks]

Apparently you haven't talked to many people from the Alaska schools. They have always played a single series plus participated in each other's early season showcases. And there was a great deal of excitement about four games plus a conference tie. But, and I know the uaafanblogger will likely excoriate me for this, if there is another reformation, it's unlikely the Alaska schools will remain together under the current terms.

If the choices are to split up or go independent, that's an easy choice.

 

[Squarebanks]

this is what it's all about.... who can make me "more money" i saw this football item and it fits all sports teams.

Then there's the money.
In May, the Big 12 announced a record $221 million in revenue last season, $23 million more than the previous season. And with there being only 10 teams in the conference now, that meant more money for each school.
But in explaining his happiness with that 'Perfect 10,' did Luck take a shot at BYU's worthiness (or lack thereof) of conference membership?
"Our denominator is 10," said Luck, the father of Colts QB Andrew Luck. "The more you split it up ... I don't think we can find a partner who's available right now to stay at the value we have (per school) or let alone increase what we have. That's the consensus we have (staying at 10)."

Except the Big 12-2 is going to be screwed in the next round of TV negotiations while the SEC, B1G, and PAC 12 get richer. But that's another discussion entirely.

Shouldn't you be out catching reds right now, anyway?