The New WCHA (2013-14)

[redwing61]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Grand Rapids has a nice arena but that is the least hockey fervent region in the state of Michigan and it's not even close so I doubt you would see the due diligence of marketing get done there either.

Well, they draw 7k-8k a night for their AHL team. Last time they hosted a regional they drew 3k-4k and Notre Dame was the most local school involved (Northeastern, Cornell and Bemidji State were the others). Given that 1.5 million people live within an hour's drive of GR, and alumni from four WCHA schools constitute more than a few of them, I think it's worth a try. In fact, I would suggest alternating GB and GR, and each city can have an NCAA regional every other off year.

 

[AnchorsAway]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Well, they draw 7k-8k a night for their AHL team. Last time they hosted a regional they drew 3k-4k and Notre Dame was the most local school involved (Northeastern, Cornell and Bemidji State were the others). Given that 1.5 million people live within an hour's drive of GR, and alumni from four WCHA schools constitute more than a few of them, I think it's worth a try. In fact, I would suggest alternating GB and GR, and each city can have an NCAA regional every other off year.

They draw well for the Griffins because everyone knows a lot of those guys will be Red Wings at some point (many of whom in the next couple years hopefully, the Wings look slower to me every year)...If there wasnt an NHL team in state or if the Griffins were not the farm team of Michigan's NHL team I doubt the Grifs would pull half of that. They drew 3-4,000 for the last regional but that is not that much in the grand scheme of things and with the educational pedigree of Notre Dame, Cornell, and Northeastern I'm willing to bet that an awful lot of that 3-4,000 were alums from those schools, god knows they would have the bank accounts to flip the bill for the trip lol...Green Bay draws 5,000 regularly to watch a bunch of junior kids that they may well never see again....I suppose alternating GB and GR for a while wouldn't hurt but all I know is that from my experience in both areas, I think there are way more "general hockey" fans that you would draw to the games in the GB area rather than the GR area, regardless of the population densities.

 

[redwing61]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

They draw well for the Griffins because everyone knows a lot of those guys will be Red Wings at some point (many of whom in the next couple years hopefully, the Wings look slower to me every year)...If there wasnt an NHL team in state or if the Griffins were not the farm team of Michigan's NHL team I doubt the Grifs would pull half of that.

In 2001–02 the Griffins were the Ottawa Senators' affiliate. Average attendance was 7,046. The next year they switched to the Red Wings and average attendance jumped all the way up to 7,215. The main appeal of the Griffins here in GR is that it's quality hockey and it's our team. We still root for Griffins alumni who've moved up, even if they're not with the Red Wings (Chris Neil, Matt Ellis, Mark Eaton, etc.). I don't know how you determined Grand Rapids is the "least hockey fervent region" in Michigan, but I think you're off base. Outside of the Detroit area and pockets of the UP, I'd say there's no region more hockey fervent.

They drew 3-4,000 for the last regional but that is not that much in the grand scheme of things and with the educational pedigree of Notre Dame, Cornell, and Northeastern I'm willing to bet that an awful lot of that 3-4,000 were alums from those schools, god knows they would have the bank accounts to flip the bill for the trip lol.

Green Bay drew about 4,000 each game in its last regional, which included Denver and North Dakota. Will it do better with WCHA teams? I don't know why it would. Now then, I don't agree with your surmise that GR's last regional drew mostly out-of-towners, but let's say that's accurate. If 3,000 Irish can drive/New Englanders can fly, surely that many Ferris, Lake State, Northern and Tech alumni who already live in the area can find their way down to the Van. Plus you'll have current Ferris students, die-hard fans of the out-of-state teams and general hockey fans. I predict comparable attendance between the Resch and the Van.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Green Bay drew about 4,000 each game in its last regional, which included Denver and North Dakota. Will it do better with WCHA teams? I don't know why it would.

YES because the WCHA tournament allows the sale of ALCOHOL, the NCAA regional does not.

 

[aparch]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

...The main appeal of the Griffins here in GR is that it's quality hockey and it's our team. ...

Side question: Have you noticed any decrease in support/attendance of the Griffins since the move from the IHL to the AHL? The Chicago Wolves seemed to have hit a skid (started long before the B'Hawks got good), and the long time fans long for the IHL days instead of the constant roster turnover the AHL brings.

Green Bay drew about 4,000 each game in its last regional, which included Denver and North Dakota. Will it do better with WCHA teams? I don't know why it would. Now then, I don't agree with your surmise that GR's last regional drew mostly out-of-towners, but let's say that's accurate. If 3,000 Irish can drive/New Englanders can fly, surely that many Ferris, Lake State, Northern and Tech alumni who already live in the area can find their way down to the Van. Plus you'll have current Ferris students, die-hard fans of the out-of-state teams and general hockey fans. I predict comparable attendance between the Resch and the Van.

That's saying that those teams make it to the New WCHA Championship. It could be Bowling Green, Mankato, _airbanks, and Anchorage... of which I'm pretty sure attendance would be arena staff, and some of the players parents. No matter where the event is held.

Green Bay and Grand Rapids are the best overall venue. Milwaukee and Chicago are locations where the extracurriculars rate higher than venue. I guess the league needs to decide what's best for it. As of right now, Green Bay seems to be the fan favorite for most teams.

 

[redwing61]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Side question: Have you noticed any decrease in support/attendance of the Griffins since the move from the IHL to the AHL? The Chicago Wolves seemed to have hit a skid (started long before the B'Hawks got good), and the long time fans long for the IHL days instead of the constant roster turnover the AHL brings.

The Griffins' attendance averaged 10,000+ in its first year (1995–96), then gradually dropped to about 5,000 by about 2005. The most entertaining game I've ever seen at the Van was Game 7 of the 2006 division finals against Manitoba where the Griffins came back from a 3-goal deficit and won in overtime thanks to Jiri Hudler, Valtteri Filppula and Darryl Bootland. Only 2,450 people were there, but I've never heard the building so loud. Attendance has since rebounded and leveled off at 7,000-8,000 as the organization has gotten better at marketing the team. (TV news coverage is still horrible – I don't know why they don't put together a highlights video every game and send it to the lazy local stations.) I don't think the switch from IHL to AHL had much to do with the initial dropoff, it was more that the novelty was wearing off a bit. I certainly pine for the days of the IHL, though, and not because there was less turnover. The standard of play was so much higher back then. The IHL was probably the number two league in the world when it folded, and now all those fringe-NHLers who have peaked go to Europe and make more money.

 

[redwing61]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

YES because the WCHA tournament allows the sale of ALCOHOL, the NCAA regional does not.

A-ha! Well, Grand Rapids can do that, too – and with better beer (I would hope they offer Bell's and Founders, although I wouldn't know because I'm not interested in paying arena prices).

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

A-ha! Well, Grand Rapids can do that, too – and with better beer (I would hope they offer Bell's and Founders, although I wouldn't know because I'm not interested in paying arena prices).

Better beer than Wisconsin? You know that is akin to a direct attack on their very soul, right? Plus, New Glarus is better than what you said, and I'm not even from Wisconsin.

 

[hattrick16]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

If 3,000 Irish can drive/New Englanders can fly, surely that many Ferris, Lake State, Northern and Tech alumni who already live in the area can find their way down to the Van. Plus you'll have current Ferris students, die-hard fans of the out-of-state teams and general hockey fans. I predict comparable attendance between the Resch and the Van.

I am excited at the possibility of the WCHA Tournament being held in Grand Rapids. I think they're getting better at promoting this type of event and I have enjoyed watching regional hockey there in the past. However, I sincerely hope the New WCHA does not 'rely' on the attendance of Ferris students because FSU has enough trouble getting them to the rink in Big Rapids (that's seems to be changing under the new AD). I also think Green Bay would be fun and different for some of us Michiganders.

This may be irrelevant to this thread, but I have thought that a Grand Rapids hockey double header featuring Ferris playing MSU and Western playing Michigan (rotating those matchups each season) would be fun in the Post-CCHA world and economically beneficial for all four. Hopefully something like that gets done.

 

[NMUFAN]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Better beer than Wisconsin? You know that is akin to a direct attack on their very soul, right? Plus, New Glarus is better than what you said, and I'm not even from Wisconsin.

If they sold Spotted Cow at the Resch, I'd go to the WCHA Final Four in Green Bay every year regardless if the Cats made it there.

 

[stuckinwi]

Better beer than Wisconsin? You know that is akin to a direct attack on their very soul, right? Plus, New Glarus is better than what you said, and I'm not even from Wisconsin.

Yeah... I despise nearly every aspect of this stinky *** state and love my native Michigan... But Bell's is in no way comparable to New Glarus. Spotted Cow is waaaaay better than Oberon which comes with fruit included... Boooo!

I think green bay is perfect. It's only a 45 minute drive for me

 

[redwing61]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Yeah... I despise nearly every aspect of this stinky *** state and love my native Michigan... But Bell's is in no way comparable to New Glarus. Spotted Cow is waaaaay better than Oberon which comes with fruit included... Boooo!

You can have your fruit beers. I'll take Two Hearted Ale, Hopslam, Kalamazoo Stout and Third Coast Old Ale from Bell's, and Centennial IPA, Breakfast Stout, Porter and Red's Rye PA from Founders.

 

[stuckinwi]

You can have your fruit beers. I'll take Two Hearted Ale, Hopslam, Kalamazoo Stout and Third Coast Old Ale from Bell's, and Centennial IPA, Breakfast Stout, Porter and Red's Rye PA from Founders.

I don't want fruity beers either, but when I think Bell's Oberon is the first thing that comes to mind. I'm sure those are all great beers, some I know are, but I still think the New Glarus wins

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

You can have your fruit beers. I'll take Two Hearted Ale, Hopslam, Kalamazoo Stout and Third Coast Old Ale from Bell's, and Centennial IPA, Breakfast Stout, Porter and Red's Rye PA from Founders.

.

Oberon sucks. Is it bad that I've downed basically every beer you've mentioned, including the elusive Kentucky Breakfast Stout?

I think a rotation between GRR and GRB isn't a bad idea to start, but I'm sure the suits are busy crunching the numbers.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

I am excited at the possibility of the WCHA Tournament being held in Grand Rapids. I think they're getting better at promoting this type of event and I have enjoyed watching regional hockey there in the past. However, I sincerely hope the New WCHA does not 'rely' on the attendance of Ferris students because FSU has enough trouble getting them to the rink in Big Rapids (that's seems to be changing under the new AD). I also think Green Bay would be fun and different for some of us Michiganders.

This may be irrelevant to this thread, but I have thought that a Grand Rapids hockey double header featuring Ferris playing MSU and Western playing Michigan (rotating those matchups each season) would be fun in the Post-CCHA world and economically beneficial for all four. Hopefully something like that gets done.

I agree that promoting hockey in the Grand Rapids area and tying it in to FSU is a great idea, but I think you also tie it into the new league. The league is going to be working hard to build rivalry games and I think you add in BGSU or another WCHA team rather than MSU. Then you can get he WCHA to help with the promotion. I think you do a joint marketing effort with the Griffons in some way where the event is promoting hockey in general, the WCHA, and in particular FSU. I think playing a few games at Van Andel is great as well.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

I don't like the idea of rotating it just between Grand Rapids and Green Bay. Either it is in Green Bay permanently, since that is the most centrally located site, or you have to rotate it between Grand Rapids, Green Bay and somewhere like Fargo, or somewhere in MN. I also don't think it should be out of the question to host the tournament in Anchorage occasionally, if there is going to be a rotation.

 

[Upper Deck]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

The biggest problem is that there needs to be someone who actually works for the league to organize and lead this initiative. We can throw out ideas and solutions all year long on here and it will accomplish nothing. What is the best way to engage the league and get the ball rolling? Surely there are posters from most of the WCHA schools that have contacts with the AD of their school, that seems like the best way to start, as opposed to going to the league office.

Let me catch you up to speed with WCHA "organization and leadership." The WCHA has a a lack of leadership and lack of vision, pure and simple. Oh, and brutal officiating to boot (which is the effect of leadership). Hopefully, they'll become uncomfortable while not being able to ride the coat tails of top programs/cash cows/larger markets and it will force them to become nimble and aggressive.

Duluth would be another good city for the tourney - Amsoil would be a good sized venue.

 

[davyd83]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

I don't like the idea of rotating it just between Grand Rapids and Green Bay. Either it is in Green Bay permanently, since that is the most centrally located site, or you have to rotate it between Grand Rapids, Green Bay and somewhere like Fargo, or somewhere in MN. I also don't think it should be out of the question to host the tournament in Anchorage occasionally, if there is going to be a rotation.

Think of the expense of sending four teams to Anchorage, and what chance is there that any significant number of fans can afford that plane ticket on less than seven days advance? Right now, Marquette to Anchorage for this weekend is $2178, for next weekend is $1558. Even a month out, it's anywhere from $900-$1100.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Think of the expense of sending four teams to Anchorage, and what chance is there that any significant number of fans can afford that plane ticket on less than seven days advance? Right now, Marquette to Anchorage for this weekend is $2178, for next weekend is $1558. Even a month out, it's anywhere from $900-$1100.

If you know in advance that the tournament is going to be in Anchorage you can take steps to mitigate costs, even if the specific teams involved aren't known. Setup 3 or 4 charter flights out of MSP, to ANC in advance, then teams in the lower 48 just need to get to MSP. For all but 2 teams, that is a bus trip. For fans, something similar could be done, and some would plan a trip regardless of the teams involved, and plan ahead. Also, I think that the city of Anchorage would come out for a tournament like this and the local attendance would be quite good.

There are ways to make it work, but people continually write it off as impossible without giving it enough thought.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Let me catch you up to speed with WCHA "organization and leadership." The WCHA has a a lack of leadership and lack of vision, pure and simple. Oh, and brutal officiating to boot (which is the effect of leadership). Hopefully, they'll become uncomfortable while not being able to ride the coat tails of top programs/cash cows/larger markets and it will force them to become nimble and aggressive.

Duluth would be another good city for the tourney - Amsoil would be a good sized venue.

Agree, Amsoil should be considered. The new WCHA has got to be a LOT better at leadership, and at working together. It's the only way forward.I think the officiating will get better, and the league will come into the 21st century, but kicking and screaming.I think the league offices have to get moved out of Denver right away.