The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

[aparch]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

From the MTU Offseason thread:

Sounds like the unofficial line from the nWHCA is that, "10 teams would be nice to have, but we aren't going to rush into it". To me, that would seem to indicate that they are holding out for a new program, and would rather not bring Huntsville into the fold.

A league schedule for 2013-2014 has been determined. Pearson said the playoff structure should be in place by the end of June. Our Alaska trip that year will take place over Thanksgiving Break - Anchorage first, then Fairbanks.

I'm sure we'll find out a bit more after the nWCHA meetings in two weeks in Detroit.

 

[SCSU Euro]

Pistols are strongly advised.

Yeah, but then again so is Faygo

 

[gfmorris]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

I'm sure we'll find out a bit more after the nWCHA meetings in two weeks in Detroit.

From what I've heard, a decision about UAH's bid for the tenth spot won't be made, as we've not been invited to make our case in person [the argument being that there's too much to do, which I can appreciate]. I do know that one school is champing at the bit to move us into the league, but I don't know that they'll move at this meeting. I'd prefer the chance for our people to make their pitch to all WCHA decision makers in one room at one time. We've contacted everyone individually, but I think a better discussion will be had by having everyone together.

GFM

 

[gfmorris]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

From what I've heard, a decision about UAH's bid for the tenth spot won't be made, as we've not been invited to make our case in person [the argument being that there's too much to do, which I can appreciate].

http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2012/06/06_huntsville_pins_hopes_on_upcoming.php

Having read that link, I thought that something may have changed. I went back to my athletic department source and he confirmed that we won't be there, and that we do not expect any determination to be made. Do I think a potential UAH bid - Wodon's reporting with McLeod on that score is to my understanding correct - will be discussed? Sure it will. But we've been told that we'll get a chance to make our pitch, but that time will not be next week.

Just getting that out there.

GFM

 

[4four4]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2012/06/06_huntsville_pins_hopes_on_upcoming.php

Having read that link, I thought that something may have changed. I went back to my athletic department source and he confirmed that we won't be there, and that we do not expect any determination to be made. Do I think a potential UAH bid - Wodon's reporting with McLeod on that score is to my understanding correct - will be discussed? Sure it will. But we've been told that we'll get a chance to make our pitch, but that time will not be next week.

Just getting that out there.

GFM

So you are saying the WCHA will talk about UAH but they will not be there?

 

[UAHStatman]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

So you are saying the WCHA will talk about UAH but they will not be there?

It could happen. They could discuss a summer timetable about making a decision -- when to have UAH file the application, when to have UAH make a presentation, when to make a visit to Huntsville, and when to take a vote. Coach Luongo, Dr. Brophy, and Dr. Altenkirch don't have to be in the room for that.

The issue I have with the CHN article was the title saying we're to pin our hopes on next week's meeting, which isn't the case. We've got the whole summer.

 

[UpNorthHockey]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

I noticed that MTU coach Pearson recently stated that the Resch Center is "still in the mix" for a possible nWCHA Final Five.
Does anyone else here think that a neutral site tourney is no longer financially viable after the defection?

I can't see any scenario in which more than 2000 people would attend a neutral site nWCHA tourney, particularly after this year's NCAA regional attendence. Even if Tech, Northern and Lake State were in it, based on past experience, I can't imagine more than 300 people traveling from each school and perhaps another 1000 ex-pats and locals. Given the cost to rent the Resch Center, I can't see how it would be a money maker.

Conversely, if the tourney games were held at nWCHA school arenas, each game would be assured around 4000 fans.

Am I missing something here or is the talk of a neutral site nWCHA tourney just idle chatter?

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

I noticed that MTU coach Pearson recently stated that the Resch Center is "still in the mix" for a possible nWCHA Final Five.
Does anyone else here think that a neutral site tourney is no longer financially viable after the defection?

I can't see any scenario in which more than 2000 people would attend a neutral site nWCHA tourney, particularly after this year's NCAA regional attendence. Even if Tech, Northern and Lake State were in it, based on past experience, I can't imagine more than 300 people traveling from each school and perhaps another 1000 ex-pats and locals. Given the cost to rent the Resch Center, I can't see how it would be a money maker.

Conversely, if the tourney games were held at nWCHA school arenas, each game would be assured around 4000 fans.

Am I missing something here or is the talk of a neutral site nWCHA tourney just idle chatter?

You cannot compare an NCAA Regional to conference tournament, it is not apples to apples. First, the regional pulls teams from all over the country and you have no idea which regional you're going to until the very end, 2nd ncaa regionals do not allow alcohol sales. I guarantee a conference tournament at the Resch would do better than a regional not involving Wisconsin, because everyone in the WCHA knows where it is ahead of time and can plan according, including buying flights early, booking hotels early, planning to tailgate ahead of time...its an extremely different situation.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Conversely, if the tourney games were held at nWCHA school arenas, each game would be assured around 4000 fans.

Are we sure?

2011-2012 Attendance
Bemidji State - 3,521 (cap. 4373)
Mankato - 3,228 (cap. 4832)
Anchorage - 3,093 (cap. 6206)
Alaska - 3,078 (cap. 4324)
NMU - 2,964 (cap. 3754)
Tech - 2,898 (cap. 4200)
LSSU - 2,154 (cap. 3373)
BG - 2,078 (cap. 5000)
Ferris - 1,947 (cap. 2490)

No team averaged 4k/game, and the best team of the bunch from last season (Ferris St.) had the lowest attendance. Moreover, 1/3 of the teams don't have the capacity to reach 4k, and another 1/3 of the teams are just over that mark. While I would love to see all of these buildings full and have a jam-packed nWCHA Tournament on campus somewhere, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Of course, I'm not sure that a neutral site would bring in all that many more fans than an on campus tourney. If I were making the decision, I would have best of 3 series all the way through the tournament, with the best seed getting home ice. Given that, only the top 8 teams would make the tournament.

 

[gfmorris]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

So you are saying the WCHA will talk about UAH but they will not be there?

I'm saying that UAH won't be there and that I won't be surprised if a potential UAH bid is discussed, but my understanding is that a decision won't be made next week. Everyone here would be very surprised if one was made, and I believe that we should get the opportunity to make our case in person to all parties, regardless of the outcome.

I think the CHN article is misleading, because Brophy's comments---he's been saying largely the same thing with the same idioms for the last three months---sound like he's saying them to Adam in anticipation of UAH being at this meeting. I'm sure that EJ has said those things to Adam (likely at the Frozen Four), but I'd be very surprised if EJ said them to Adam on Monday in an interview leading to this story.

GFM <-- hopes that's clear.

 

[Rtn2GoldCountry]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Of course, I'm not sure that a neutral site would bring in all that many more fans than an on campus tourney. If I were making the decision, I would have best of 3 series all the way through the tournament, with the best seed getting home ice. Given that, only the top 8 teams would make the tournament.

If the nWCHA were to switch to this post-season format, do you think we would see other conferences try to expand their tournaments to try and increase profits? I don't know how other conferences would do the 2 out of 3 the whole way through and still invite the final 4 to a neutral site like Joe Louis Arena. Maybe they would have to play 2 out of 3 at home until the final 2 teams, instead of the final 4 like most leagues currently do.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

If the nWCHA were to switch to this post-season format, do you think we would see other conferences try to expand their tournaments to try and increase profits? I don't know how other conferences would do the 2 out of 3 the whole way through and still invite the final 4 to a neutral site like Joe Louis Arena. Maybe they would have to play 2 out of 3 at home until the final 2 teams, instead of the final 4 like most leagues currently do.

Why do we care about the other leagues? This is discussion about the 2013-14 WCHA.

 

[giwan]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

You cannot compare an NCAA Regional to conference tournament, it is not apples to apples. First, the regional pulls teams from all over the country and you have no idea which regional you're going to until the very end, 2nd ncaa regionals do not allow alcohol sales. I guarantee a conference tournament at the Resch would do better than a regional not involving Wisconsin, because everyone in the WCHA knows where it is ahead of time and can plan according, including buying flights early, booking hotels early, planning to tailgate ahead of time...its an extremely different situation.

Agree fully, apples vs alternators argument. That being said I still think a best a three all the way through is still the best to start the league. Each program needs to build home attendance first. Unless there really is a belief that the $'s are there for a neutral site.

I believe they could sell alcohol if it was set up outside the Resch center as they did in Tampa. In the adjoining building or literally outside but that might be a little chillyor not.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Good points, but it seems to me that from a competitive standpoint a neutral site would be preferable. The question is if it can be done without losing money. I don't think it has to be a big profit maker, but losing money would not be good. So my question would be, if it were at the Resch, starting in 2016, what would the breakeven attendance be and do we think we can meet that.?

Second assuming that is the direction they want to go, what are they going to do in the interim.Honestly I think all the teams will be surprised by how well they do attendance wise, but also surprised at how tough the travel is.

 

[davyd83]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Agree fully, apples vs alternators argument. That being said I still think a best a three all the way through is still the best to start the league. Each program needs to build home attendance first. Unless there really is a belief that the $'s are there for a neutral site.

I believe they could sell alcohol if it was set up outside the Resch center as they did in Tampa. In the adjoining building or literally outside but that might be a little chillyor not.

Too chilly to drink beer in Green Bay? Never! We do it quite often in single digit temps! It's called tailgating!

 

[UpNorthHockey]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

I understand the desirability of starting a new tradition/destination-event for the nWCHA post season and I agree that the NCAA regionals aren't necessarily indicative of what an nWCHA tourney might pull in. However, I still find it hard to believe that the nWCHA schools are going to muster a travel-base of more than a few hundred fans each. We've all seen how the nWCHA schools travel....the numbers aren't huge. I would think we might need around 4000 fans at the Resch to make it do-able. It will be a bit of a risk if nWCHA books it and then falls way short.

That said, I don't think regular season numbers are a good indicator of how playoff attendence might be at the school arenas. I think any school that makes the playoffs will fill their barn....maybe it gives the smaller arenas incentive to increase seating.

I'd love to be proven wrong about this and see us fill the Resch or some other neutral venue. I'm just not sure that I've ever seen any of the nWCHA schools generate that kind of crowd, even when they've made the final five. The audience has always been mostly MN, WI, ND with a smattering of CC and DU.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

That said, I don't think regular season numbers are a good indicator of how playoff attendence might be at the school arenas. I think any school that makes the playoffs will fill their barn....maybe it gives the smaller arenas incentive to increase seating.

Are we sure?

2011-2012 Home Playoff Attendance (of teams that hosted this past season)
Ferris State - 1,696 avg. (against future nWCHA team Bowling Green) about 250 less than the Regular Season Average.
NMU - 1,440 avg. (against future nWCHA team Bowling Green) about 1500 less than the Regular Season Average.
LSSU - 1,250 avg. (against future nWCHA team Alaska) about 900 less than the Regular Season Average.

Tech, Bemidji, Mankato, UAA, Alaska, and Bowling Green did not host playoff series in 2011-2012.

Given that tournament time happens to fall around Spring Break, it is usually the case that playoff attendance drops (also, the pure fact that often fans don't know until a week or two before hand if they will have home ice leads to many not planning on going to these games). FWIW, it is the case across the board in college hockey that playoff attendance is less than regular season attendance. It's nice to think that fans will fill their home rinks for the playoffs, but the facts tend to speak otherwise.

 

[giwan]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Too chilly to drink beer in Green Bay? Never! We do it quite often in single digit temps! It's called tailgating!

Well I know that, I can lay claim to tailgating @ -100 F with wind chill It's only difficult from the point of needing a chiseling type device to break through the layer of ice.

 

[aparch]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

No. Just NO to campus site tournament locations.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The New WCHA 2, The Electric Boogaloo (2013-14)

Since Green Bay is out for the near future, and the idea of campus sites seems too small-scale (for cripes sake, even the Atlantic league plays their Final 4 at 11,200-seat Blue Cross Arena in Rochester, NY and I doubt many people show up when RIT isn't playing), I really think Duluth should be in consideration for at least one of the first 2-3 years, if they are interested and it can be worked out schedule-wise. Amsoil is owned by the city, so this notion that it's somehow "supporting the NCHC" doesn't bother me.