The NCHC: Just be glad its NaCHo League

[5mn_Major]

Re: The NCHC: Just be glad its NaCHo League

Here is an expose on the forming of the NCHC from the SCSU standpoint.

For those of you with a bit of time, I found it a fascinating read. Cudos to those for making this kind of info available:

http://www.sctimes.com/article/20111204/NEWS01/112040001/Emails-detail-hockey-shake-up

 

[Handyman]

Re: The NCHC: Just be glad its NaCHo League

Let's face it, the conference tournaments in all sports, are a complete cash grab to begin with. They have managed to legitimize them by awarding the auto-NCAA, which isn't too big of a deal, because for most leagues the regular season champion wont play their way out of the NCAAs because of a poor conference tournament (see Ferris St. this year). That being said, this makes the 3rd place game an even more pathetic attempt for revenue, because the game is essentially meaningless. It is about the equivalent of a game against the USNDP U18 team, it does not help your team to win. Lucia was asked if he would prefer to play tomorrow after the semi-final loss to UND this past March, and before the reported could even finish the sentence he was already saying no because he knew they would be playing for nothing. I believe the current WCHA dropped the 3rd place game for two reasons. First, I think they figured out that winning the game did not help the teams chances of making the NCAAs nor did a loss keep them from making the tournament. The second reason was I think they wanted to keep the name "Final Five" and when they added a 6th team and another play in game on Thursday it brought the total # of weekend games to 6, and by reducing the tournament to 5 games they could continue to call it the "Final Five" despite having 6 teams. I understand the point about the fans wanting to be assured two games before travelling, but for fans who want to buy the tournament packages every year no matter what teams are in it, they do not want to pay for or attend the 3rd place game.

It isnt always meaningless, in fact depending how things shake out a bubble team could use another win against TUC and if the other team is a bubble team you can possibly jump ahead of them. To be fair though usually the team that needs the win in the 3rd place game loses but I can remember a few years where NCAA hopes (according to PWR gurus around here) for teams hinged on winning that game. If you arent a bubble team though you have no incentive to even try though which is why the game is stupid.

cF is right though, for this league it makes sense because out of staters are probably going to want to know they will see their team play two games. Target Center will have no issue with it since they will get more concession sales and can sell more packages.

 

[Dude Love]

Re: The NCHC: Just be glad its NaCHo League

Heard Jess Myers on 1500 ESPN talking about why the NCHC tournament will get killed by the Big Ten tournament as far as attendance and ticket sales go. His two points were...

1. Minnesota vs. Wisconsin at XCel would slaughter Miami vs. Colorado College at Target Center (no mention of how Penn State vs. Ohio State would do against North Dakota vs. St. Cloud State).
2. Only three NCHC schools - UND, UMD, & SCSU - are within driving distance of the Twin Cities (no mention of how only two Big Ten schools are within driving distance). And don't forget that Omaha is only 6 hours from here, which is much less time than it takes to get here from East Lansing or Ann Arbor.

Basically, Jess is an idiot.

 

[Biddco]

Re: The NCHC: Just be glad its NaCHo League

Heard Jess Myers on 1500 ESPN talking about why the NCHC tournament will get killed by the Big Ten tournament as far as attendance and ticket sales go. His two points were...

1. Minnesota vs. Wisconsin at XCel would slaughter Miami vs. Colorado College at Target Center (no mention of how Penn State vs. Ohio State would do against North Dakota vs. St. Cloud State).
2. Only three NCHC schools - UND, UMD, & SCSU - are within driving distance of the Twin Cities (no mention of how only two Big Ten schools are within driving distance). And don't forget that Omaha is only 6 hours from here, which is much less time than it takes to get here from East Lansing or Ann Arbor.

Basically, Jess is an idiot.

Hehe, well UMD and UND would slaughter Penn State and Michigan. We still have not seen UNO in a Final Five. I would imagine they would travel well for the NCHC or Final Five.

 

[Stauber1]

Re: The NCHC: Just be glad its NaCHo League

Regardless of where you stand on the NCHC, how it was formed or the teams in it...the decision to hold the conference tournament at the Target Center is a ****ing joke.

I can only assume that anyone who views this as a good idea (especially those making the decision) have never attended a hockey game at Target Center.
The ice is total ****. The boards and glass give ridiculous bounces. There is enough room in the corners between the glass and the stands to hold tractor pulls. The majority of the seats are aligned to give a better view of the goal judge than the opening face-off.

I hear the Target Center is slated to get some renovations done. It is going to take a lot to make that place adequate for hockey. Are they willing to sink the money into making it a hockey-friendly arena for a single tournament where the attendance is still rather questionable?

Maybe they will. As it stands right now, I think this was a mistake. If you want your league to be considered elite, you can't hold your conference tournament in an arena that provides **** conditions on the ice and a **** fan experience.

About the only good thing about this will be watching the reactions of the UND fans as they exit onto 1st Ave at 11:30pm on a Saturday night.

 

[TheEagle]

Re: The NCHC: Just be glad its NaCHo League

Regardless of where you stand on the NCHC, how it was formed or the teams in it...the decision to hold the conference tournament at the Target Center is a ****ing joke.

I can only assume that anyone who views this as a good idea (especially those making the decision) have never attended a hockey game at Target Center.
The ice is total ****. The boards and glass give ridiculous bounces. There is enough room in the corners between the glass and the stands to hold tractor pulls. The majority of the seats are aligned to give a better view of the goal judge than the opening face-off.

I hear the Target Center is slated to get some renovations done. It is going to take a lot to make that place adequate for hockey. Are they willing to sink the money into making it a hockey-friendly arena for a single tournament where the attendance is still rather questionable?

Maybe they will. As it stands right now, I think this was a mistake. If you want your league to be considered elite, you can't hold your conference tournament in an arena that provides **** conditions on the ice and a **** fan experience.

About the only good thing about this will be watching the reactions of the UND fans as they exit onto 1st Ave at 11:30pm on a Saturday night.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/238553/group/Sports/

Target Center general manager Steve Mattson said that the arena will have new boards and glass for the NCHC postseason tournament, which will be played at the end of the league’s first season in 2013-14.

The Target Center also is expected to undergo multi-million dollar renovations. Mattson said they are planning on widening concourses where possible and replacing some of the walls with glass.

“By the time (the NCHC) comes here in 2014, there will be a lot of impactful changes to the building,” Mattson said.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: The NCHC: Just be glad its NaCHo League

Heard Jess Myers on 1500 ESPN talking about why the NCHC tournament will get killed by the Big Ten tournament as far as attendance and ticket sales go. His two points were...

1. Minnesota vs. Wisconsin at XCel would slaughter Miami vs. Colorado College at Target Center (no mention of how Penn State vs. Ohio State would do against North Dakota vs. St. Cloud State).
2. Only three NCHC schools - UND, UMD, & SCSU - are within driving distance of the Twin Cities (no mention of how only two Big Ten schools are within driving distance). And don't forget that Omaha is only 6 hours from here, which is much less time than it takes to get here from East Lansing or Ann Arbor.

Basically, Jess is an idiot.

Jess is Ok. And candidly, he's right. Only a fool would think that the NCHC will come close to drawing the same ticket sales as the Big 10 tournament across town. The U of Minnesota is 10 minutes away, for crying out loud. I don't care how many UND, SCSU, UMD, etc..., alum may be in the Twin Cities, it doesn't approach the number of Minnesota alum, or probably even Wisconsin alum. In fact, if the day comes where an NCHC game draws better than a Big 10 game across town at the same time, that's going to be a huge embarrassment for the Big 10 tournament.

The decision to put the NCHC tournament was based upon perception of what was the best opportunity for NCHC fans to attend. UND, SCSU and UMD send nice contingents to the tournament every year. They're not going to ship it to Omaha, or even Denver, shutting out the 10-12,000 fans that might attend from those three schools. They're also only going to compete with the Big 10 every other year.

You are certainly going to see lots of ink on how the Big 10 tournament is outdrawing the crosstown NCHC. But to be candid, I can't believe the Big 10 is thrilled about the arrangement either. Casual college hockey fans, who might have otherwise attended the Big 10 tournament, may very well choose to see the NCHC, especially if ticket prices are cheaper and they have any connection to the NCHC teams. There is a limited viewing audience for college hockey, even in the Twin Cities, and it figures to be taxed in the middle of March in each year both tournaments are here.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The NCHC: Just be glad its NaCHo League

Both tournaments should do fine. Remeber, most/all teams will be in...that's the difference with tournaments like the WCHA today or CCHA.

I think the B1G will have the advantage going into the tournament because U MN is so big and its local (and if there were any question, WI would push it over the edge). NCHC should do fine as I'd expect UMD, SCSU and UND to be in their tourney.

If the respective key attendance teams have especially good years and/or go to the championship games...then expect solid tourney numbers on both sides.

 

[goldy_331]

Re: The NCHC: Just be glad its NaCHo League

Jess is Ok. And candidly, he's right. Only a fool would think that the NCHC will come close to drawing the same ticket sales as the Big 10 tournament across town.

Well, you had Dude Love and Biddco weighing in, so you nailed it...

 

[Dude Love]

Re: The NCHC: Just be glad its NaCHo League

Well, you had Dude Love and Biddco weighing in, so you nailed it...

Did nobody read my post? A conference needs their big money schools to be competitive in order to draw cash. Of course the NCHC tournament will crap the bed at Target Center if UND, UMD, & SCSU have a down year. But if the Gophers and Badgers don't make their tournament? The Big Ten would get outdrawn by a flea market.

 

[HumRsky]

It isnt always meaningless, in fact depending how things shake out a bubble team could use another win against TUC and if the other team is a bubble team you can possibly jump ahead of them. To be fair though usually the team that needs the win in the 3rd place game loses but I can remember a few years where NCAA hopes (according to PWR gurus around here) for teams hinged on winning that game.

A couple years back Notre Dame had to LOSE the CCHA third place game to guarentee a NCAA spot.

 

[Goon]

Re: The NCHC: Just be glad its NaCHo League

Heard Jess Myers on 1500 ESPN talking about why the NCHC tournament will get killed by the Big Ten tournament as far as attendance and ticket sales go. His two points were...

1. Minnesota vs. Wisconsin at XCel would slaughter Miami vs. Colorado College at Target Center (no mention of how Penn State vs. Ohio State would do against North Dakota vs. St. Cloud State).
2. Only three NCHC schools - UND, UMD, & SCSU - are within driving distance of the Twin Cities (no mention of how only two Big Ten schools are within driving distance). And don't forget that Omaha is only 6 hours from here, which is much less time than it takes to get here from East Lansing or Ann Arbor.

Basically, Jess is an idiot.

I would have to say that Jess isn’t an idiot, having had the opportunity to get to meet him and have a couple of conversations with the guy; Jess is a pretty cool individual. Jess is also a very funny guys as well.

 

[revcraig]

Re: The NCHC: Just be glad its NaCHo League

That's why one might wonder if it would have been better to go to a town where they won't be competing against any of the Big10 teams? Being a bit selfish (since I live an hour from here), would have a place like Green Bay been a good place to hold it? It's a bit closer to the eastern teams in the league, but not too far of a drive for the Western teams. Arena holds around 10,000, so space would be available, plus their are hotels enough b/c of the Packers.

 

[Dude Love]

Re: The NCHC: Just be glad its NaCHo League

I would have to say that Jess isn’t an idiot, having had the opportunity to get to meet him and have a couple of conversations with the guy; Jess is a pretty cool individual. Jess is also a very funny guys as well.

OK, hair-splitter. Thanks for your input.

 

[scsutommyboy]

Re: The NCHC: Just be glad its NaCHo League

Let's face it, the conference tournaments in all sports, are a complete cash grab to begin with. They have managed to legitimize them by awarding the auto-NCAA, which isn't too big of a deal, because for most leagues the regular season champion wont play their way out of the NCAAs because of a poor conference tournament (see Ferris St. this year). That being said, this makes the 3rd place game an even more pathetic attempt for revenue, because the game is essentially meaningless. It is about the equivalent of a game against the USNDP U18 team, it does not help your team to win. Lucia was asked if he would prefer to play tomorrow after the semi-final loss to UND this past March, and before the reported could even finish the sentence he was already saying no because he knew they would be playing for nothing. I believe the current WCHA dropped the 3rd place game for two reasons. First, I think they figured out that winning the game did not help the teams chances of making the NCAAs nor did a loss keep them from making the tournament. The second reason was I think they wanted to keep the name "Final Five" and when they added a 6th team and another play in game on Thursday it brought the total # of weekend games to 6, and by reducing the tournament to 5 games they could continue to call it the "Final Five" despite having 6 teams. I understand the point about the fans wanting to be assured two games before travelling, but for fans who want to buy the tournament packages every year no matter what teams are in it, they do not want to pay for or attend the 3rd place game.

SCSU lost at least one and maybe two third place games that cost them an NCAA bid. If they never would ahve played the game they would have made the tourney. That said I would guess teams have won a third place game and earned a spot as well.

 

[scsutommyboy]

Re: The NCHC: Just be glad its NaCHo League

Regardless of where you stand on the NCHC, how it was formed or the teams in it...the decision to hold the conference tournament at the Target Center is a ****ing joke.

I can only assume that anyone who views this as a good idea (especially those making the decision) have never attended a hockey game at Target Center.
The ice is total ****. The boards and glass give ridiculous bounces. There is enough room in the corners between the glass and the stands to hold tractor pulls. The majority of the seats are aligned to give a better view of the goal judge than the opening face-off.

I hear the Target Center is slated to get some renovations done. It is going to take a lot to make that place adequate for hockey. Are they willing to sink the money into making it a hockey-friendly arena for a single tournament where the attendance is still rather questionable?

Maybe they will. As it stands right now, I think this was a mistake. If you want your league to be considered elite, you can't hold your conference tournament in an arena that provides **** conditions on the ice and a **** fan experience.

About the only good thing about this will be watching the reactions of the UND fans as they exit onto 1st Ave at 11:30pm on a Saturday night.

I will start by saying I don't think it will draw more than 10,000 a game and for that reason it will be lame. However, everybody saying the Target Center is so bad for hockey have obviously never seen a game in the Kohl Center. I agree TC is not great for hockey, but the site lines and crappy arena wouldn't matter if they could fill the place. I am sorry but a half empty arena is not going ot be any fun.

 

[Tiggsy]

Re: The NCHC: Just be glad its NaCHo League

That's why one might wonder if it would have been better to go to a town where they won't be competing against any of the Big10 teams? Being a bit selfish (since I live an hour from here), would have a place like Green Bay been a good place to hold it? It's a bit closer to the eastern teams in the league, but not too far of a drive for the Western teams. Arena holds around 10,000, so space would be available, plus their are hotels enough b/c of the Packers.

how much of a hockey town in Green Bay? There has to be some local interes to bolster it or it will have issues. There definitely is some of that in the Twin Cities but I just don't see that from Green Bay. Then again the B1G bouncy ball is in Indianapolis and has done okay there. Anything is possible I guess.

 

[HumRsky]

how much of a hockey town in Green Bay? There has to be some local interes to bolster it or it will have issues. There definitely is some of that in the Twin Cities but I just don't see that from Green Bay. Then again the B1G bouncy ball is in Indianapolis and has done okay there. Anything is possible I guess.

Kind of off topic, but Indy is a total basketball town and the B1G bball teams have a generally much larger hardcore and casual fanbase than even the B1G hockey teams. Apples and oranges

 

[Map Man]

how much of a hockey town in Green Bay? There has to be some local interes to bolster it or it will have issues. There definitely is some of that in the Twin Cities but I just don't see that from Green Bay. Then again the B1G bouncy ball is in Indianapolis and has done okay there. Anything is possible I guess.

Green Bay? They get NCAA game and draw squat. Dreadful town too.

 

[TheEagle]

Re: The NCHC: Just be glad its NaCHo League

Green Bay? They get NCAA game and draw squat. Dreadful town too.

Viking fan