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The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

The fact that you don't like evidence doesn't mean I don't provide it many times. Putting on my Captain Obvious cape in this case, of course you can't find specific forensic evidence linking education unions with education problems in this nation. Just like you can't find forensic evidence to demonstrate many things that can be reasonably posited. In my case, my dad was a career teacher and union member, so his input counts to me and he has always believed that the teacher unions are of little use and mostly self-serving. Again, I'm not saying unions are the whole problem, just that they are part of the problem, along with disengaged parents, etc. If you argue against that proposition, you're arguing that unions are pristine and not in any way part of the problem.

At least you're addressing the underlying issue by bringing up a single piece of rationale. Yet if your opinion is based on that of your dad, then you've got the opinion you deserve. I don't buy it tho.

Agree to disagree.
 
Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

Except for the comments by the mayors (which they won't follow through on because a first year law student could tell them any law would be struck down), most of that has been going on for eons. You say something controversial, and while the government ignores you thereby protecting your freedom of speech, the consequences from other actors is fair game. You could lose your job, ostracized by friends, or in this guys case, his business will be in a whirlwind of attackers and supporters for some time. None of that is an "assault on free speech" nor is any of it new. A whole generation is going through the process of learning the difference between free speech and stupidity with facebook and twitter.
Yup, our nation has sunk to the point where saying someone believes in the biblical view of marriage is controversial and the person and company are threatened. Even ten or twenty years ago this wouldn't have happened. Hey, look at the gay marriage prop in California, where supporters were ostracized, fired, etc. You stand against these folks and there's a good chance you'll pay.

"The test of democracy is freedom of criticism." David Ben-Gurion

"For if Men are to be precluded from offering their Sentiments on a matter, which may involve the most serious and alarming consequences, that can invite the consideration of Mankind, reason is of no use to us; the freedom of Speech may be taken away, and, dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep, to the Slaughter." George Washington
 
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Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

At least you're addressing the underlying issue by bringing up a single piece of rationale. Yet if your opinion is based on that of your dad, then you've got the opinion you deserve. I don't buy it tho.

Agree to disagree.
I'm just careful to note when something can be quantitatively proven and when something is believed to be true based on observation and is therefore opinion. The volumed of assumed cause and effect around here is deafening, with you being a regular offender.
 
Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

I'm just careful to note when something can be quantitatively proven and when something is believed to be true based on observation and is therefore opinion. The volumed of assumed cause and effect around here is deafening, with you being a regular offender.

You put forth a position. I questioned it.

When you supply any data to support your position...then let's discuss.
 
Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

You put forth a position. I questioned it.

When you supply any data to support your position...then let's discuss.
To some of us, there's more than data to life and understanding. But, you know you're being purposely obtuse, as a discussion of something like the impact unions have on the state of our education system of course doesn't lend itself to empirical analysis.
 
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Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

Any evidence unions have played a role in the decline of our education system? Of course not.

The right cannot defend itself.
You're not seriously doubting that public unions in general, and especially teachers unions, make it extremely difficult to get rid of poor performers, are you? I worked for the government for many years and saw first hand how poor performers were just shunted aside with lower levels of responsibility, because that was much easier than trying to fight the unions and fire them. Teachers unions also don't like students being given a choice of going to private or charter schools.

The state of Lousiana has instituted educational reforms including a voucher program that would allow students to attend schools of their choice, but lawyers for the teacher's union there are threatening to sue private schools that accept vouchers. Bullying pure and simple. The union lawyers know they don't have much chance of winning in court, but that's not the point. Many private schools probably don't have the money for lengthy court proceedings, so the union lawyers are trying to intimidate them.

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/27...ative+Policy+News.)&utm_content=Google+Reader
 
Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

You're not seriously doubting that public unions in general, and especially teachers unions, make it extremely difficult to get rid of poor performers, are you? I worked for the government for many years and saw first hand how poor performers were just shunted aside with lower levels of responsibility, because that was much easier than trying to fight the unions and fire them. Teachers unions also don't like students being given a choice of going to private or charter schools.

The state of Lousiana has instituted educational reforms including a voucher program that would allow students to attend schools of their choice, but lawyers for the teacher's union there are threatening to sue private schools that accept vouchers. Bullying pure and simple. The union lawyers know they don't have much chance of winning in court, but that's not the point. Many private schools probably don't have the money for lengthy court proceedings, so the union lawyers are trying to intimidate them.

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/27...ative+Policy+News.)&utm_content=Google+Reader
careful, siting something from the heritage foundation will get you in trouble, especially something on the foundry...:rolleyes:
 
Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

Yup, our nation has sunk to the point where saying someone believes in the biblical view of marriage is controversial and the person and company are threatened. Even ten or twenty years ago this wouldn't have happened. Hey, look at the gay marriage prop in California, where supporters were ostracized, fired, etc. You stand against these folks and there's a good chance you'll pay.

bible-marriage.jpg


Was inevitable that you'd fall back on Bronze Age writings. Which one(s) are you referring to?
 
Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

bible-marriage.jpg


Was inevitable that you'd fall back on Bronze Age writings. Which one(s) are you referring to?
bronconick, meet New Testament. New Testament, meet bronconick. There, I've introduced you. It's up to you if you make the effort from here on out.
 
Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

oh, I'm not that one that will bite your head off, but some will...sorry if that was confusing.
I didn't think you were; I just thought I'd throw out another link to the same story from the progressive side.;)
 
Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

To some of us, there's more than data to life and understanding. But, you know you're being purposely obtuse, as a discussion of something like the impact unions have on the state of our education system of course doesn't lend itself to empirical analysis.

Yeah, it only lends itself to statements of fact.
 
Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today


Seems that the purpose of the suit is to ensure that the practice is constitutional. I thought the constitution was something we believed in...so how about we let the courts decide if the case has merit?

In the end, there is no linkeage between teachers unions and a deterioration of US educational outcomes. I appreciate the attempt...but still looking for data regarding the premise. Perhaps benchmarks with other countries? No...that doesn't seem like that would validate the point.
 
Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

Seems that the purpose of the suit is to ensure that the practice is constitutional. I thought the constitution was something we believed in...so how about we let the courts decide if the case has merit?

In the end, there is no linkeage between teachers unions and a deterioration of US educational outcomes. I appreciate the attempt...but still looking for data regarding the premise. Perhaps benchmarks with other countries? No...that doesn't seem like that would validate the point.
I think the linkage is parental "my child's poop don't stink". And maybe the increase in AP/Honors/IB/"Ain't my kid special!" programs. We never had that stuff when I was going through school -- each class was sort of segregated with the smart kids in the back and the ones that needed more attention in the front.
 
Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

And maybe the increase in AP/Honors/IB/"Ain't my kid special!" programs. We never had that stuff when I was going through school -- each class was sort of segregated with the smart kids in the back and the ones that needed more attention in the front.

You are crazy. High school is boring enough with AP classes. Without them any kid with half a brain would be suicidal by Thanksgiving.
 
Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

Had a good Chick-fil-A sandwich and waffle fries last night with the wife. Fun time, though it took awhile to get the food. They were actually almost out of food, as even with stocking up they hadn't anticipated the size of the crowds. Glad to spend $8.32 to support the First Amendment any day. :)
 
Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

You are crazy. High school is boring enough with AP classes. Without them any kid with half a brain would be suicidal by Thanksgiving.
Sounds like an argument in favor of home schooling! ;)
 
Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

Had a good Chick-fil-A sandwich and waffle fries last night with the wife. Fun time, though it took awhile to get the food. They were actually almost out of food, as even with stocking up they hadn't anticipated the size of the crowds. Glad to spend $8.32 to support the First Amendment any day. :)
I supported the First Amendment for free by choosing not to eat at Chik-Fil-A. :)
 
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