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The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

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Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

ericredaxe said:
To me it would be obvious that would happen, but nobody ever accused Rick Perry as being the sharpest knife in the drawer.

It's always amazing to me that, for the most part, the anti-choice groups are also the ones against sex education, increasing awareness and access to birth control etc. For the most part I think they really don't care about the fetus so much as the just want to control women's lives.
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Bingo.
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

ericredaxe said:
To me it would be obvious that would happen, but nobody ever accused Rick Perry as being the sharpest knife in the drawer.

It's always amazing to me that, for the most part, the anti-choice groups are also the ones against sex education, increasing awareness and access to birth control etc. For the most part I think they really don't care about the fetus so much as the just want to control women's lives.
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They want to control gays, too, so it's more than that.

Partly it's the control of women because of ageless religious quackery, sure. But more than that religious conservatives are frozen in perpetual adolescence in their sexuality. The smirking dirty joke attitude towards sex and women. The inability to see a sexual partner as a partner. The need to distance and trivialize and above all to order and classify. It runs through conservatism from the bait shop Thumper to the drawing room Catholic like a polluted river.
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

Kepler said:
They want to control gays, too, so it's more than that.

Partly it's the control of women because of ageless religious quackery, sure. But more than that religious conservatives are frozen in perpetual adolescence in their sexuality. The smirking dirty joke attitude towards sex and women. The inability to see a sexual partner as a partner. The need to distance and trivialize and above all to order and classify. It runs through conservatism from the bait shop Thumper to the drawing room Catholic like a polluted river.
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I think you will find it difficult to support the bolded points with anything objective, Kep. I agree that Puritanism and religion in general have really fukced up the way we think of and deal with sexuality in this country. And since it's a male-dominated culture, men have played a much bigger role in that fukcup than women. But I think the bolded language is an unfair generalization.

Maybe I"m just blind to it, and that possibility has some negative implications I'd rather not contemplate.
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Kep, that's probably 80% of men. Especially after throwing back a few drinks. It's not exclusive to religious men.
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No, not when they grow up. It isn't the "religious," it's the politically religious. That's a distinct subset who are using their faith as a cudgel to get the political outcomes they want. F-ck them.
 
Kepler said:
No, not when they grow up. It isn't the "religious," it's the politically religious. That's a distinct subset who are using their faith as a cudgel to get the political outcomes they want. F-ck them.
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You're implying that a majority of men ever "grow up" to begin with. ;)
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

Kepler said:
No, not when they grow up. It isn't the "religious," it's the politically religious. That's a distinct subset who are using their faith as a cudgel to get the political outcomes they want. F-ck them.
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Have you ever spent time in a locker room with only grown men in it? The jokes are rarely G-rated, and they will often have sexual overtones to them, if not explicitly stated. We're all still boys when we're with secluded with only other boys. It's when we interact with the rest of the world that determines who are the men that will step forward and actually be men.
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

St. Clown said:
Have you ever spent time in a locker room with only grown men in it? The jokes are rarely G-rated, and they will often have sexual overtones to them, if not explicitly stated. We're all still boys when we're with secluded with only other boys. It's when we interact with the rest of the world that determines who are the men that will step forward and actually be men.
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Joking is joking. The joy of that joking is trying to be as crude as humanly possible because it's juvenile and sophomoric. That's for fun -- I'm not talking about that.

I'm talking about actual attitudes towards sex. The theocons I work with think of sex as something either obscene (bad) or naughty (hurr hurr good), and women as either whores or Madonnas. They stopped growing up somewhere in their teens. They have no concept of women as people -- women are either devilish temptations or angelic mother figures. They are still immature adolescents. They aren't men, they're children.
 
cF[Authentic] said:
And yet, for the rest of the population the number of abortions dropped significantly.
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Perhaps you should have included the rest of that paragraph:
The overall abortion rate in the state dropped 14 percent between 2013 and 2016 ― but this was largely because in some low-income rural areas, like the Rio Grande Valley, women would have had to drive over 100 miles to find the nearest safe and legal abortion provider. Those women either had to seek out unsafe, do-it-yourself procedures or simply have babies they didn’t want or couldn’t afford.
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Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

Almington said:
Perhaps you should have included the rest of that paragraph:
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Let's go even further and include the actual study:

In a more recent working paper, Lu and Slusky have expanded this analysis to examine the effects on overall birth rates and report that an increase of 100 miles to the nearest clinic results in a 1.2 percent increase in birth rates.
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Additionally, if you go through the 23 page paper you'll notice the author uses the word "estimate" 73 times, as that is the theme of the paper. She doesn't have concrete numbers for all counties and thus has to estimate those numbers. Which could be completely off. Or could be perfectly accurate.

The study doesn't include any information similar to what the HuffPost article assumes:
Those women either had to seek out unsafe, do-it-yourself procedures or simply have babies they didn’t want or couldn’t afford.
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Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

From the Didache of the Apostles:

II. But the second commandment of the teaching is this. Thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not commit adultery; thou shalt not corrupt youth; thou shalt not commit fornication; thou shalt not steal; thou shalt not use soothsaying; thou shalt not practise sorcery; thou shalt not kill a child by abortion, neither shalt thou slay it when born;...
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Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

Kepler said:
Well that explains the enormous social movement against soothsaying.

How's your Wednesday fasting going?
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If Wednesday and Friday are the fast days, what's up with all the Catholics jamming up restaurants every Friday night for the fish fry? Fish don't count? Or have I been misinformed that it's for the Catholics?
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

jerphisch said:
I'm going to need a definition for "committing fornication", it would seem to make at least 3 others rather redundant.
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I believe "fornication" under Catholicism is specifically sexual penetration outside of marriage, so it isn't the same thing as "lust" (a thought crime), "adultery" (somebody has to be married) or "bestiality" (somebody has to not be a person). "Corruption of youth" isn't necessarily sexual at all -- when Athens killed Socrates for it it was because he taught them to sass their elders. "Onanism" is another fun one that it isn't. "Sodomy" does overlap somewhat, but it's typically used for Teh Gayz or for oral/anal with anybody including your dear consensual spouse because, you know, the Omnipotent Creator of the Universe gives a sh-t about all this.

IINM when Catholics talk about "fornication" they are primarily talking about giving it to Mary in the rectory basement.
 
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Kepler said:
I believe it is specifically sexual penetration outside of marriage, so it isn't the same thing as lust (a thought crime), adultery (somebody has to be married) or bestiality (somebody has to not be a person).
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Deuteronomy makes it clear women who aren't virgins are to be stoned if they have sec outside marriage.
Sounds like a GOP campaign slogan actually
 
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