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The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

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Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

There is a really "interesting" court case underway right now that might have some unexpected ramifications for the thread topic.

When Nick Loeb and Sofia Vergara were engaged, they tried in vitro fertilization to have a child. Two embryos resulted that were frozen.

Now that they are no longer together, they are engaged in a court battle over whether Loeb can take custody of the embryos on his own and have them brought to term in a surrogate mother. Vergara is fighting this move.

Somehow, along the way, the embryos got their own attorney to represent them. Apparently, the legal agreement between Loeb and Vergara specifies that, if the two of them are unable to come to a resolution on what to do with the embryos, then the embryos will be destroyed. Consequently, the Trustee of a trust that was established to provide for the embryos' welfare after they were born filed suit to protect their "right for a chance at life." [no, this is not something from the Onion!]


The Forbes article doesn't have all the details, but most of them.

Whether the case is resolved after a trial or if the Judge agrees with Vergara's legal position and throws out the lawsuit, it is a near-certainty that the losing side will appeal to the California Court of Appeals. Ultimately, given the uniqueness of this type of case and the high stakes involved -- with two potential lives in the balance -- the appeal would like [sic] proceed to the California Supreme Court, and perhaps even the United States Supreme Court. If that happens, it will be very interesting to see how the higher courts view the right to life for frozen embryos, which recent CDC statistics show have about a 30-40% chance of resulting in a live birth, based on Vergara's age at the time the embryo's were created.

In other words, because of the reality that most frozen embryos, like the ones that Vergara and Loeb created, would not result in both successful implantation and a live birth, this lawsuit is not really about the right to life as it is to the right for a chance at life. Loeb essentially contends that life is so precious that even this chance at life compels him to fight for the embryos so that he can try to have them implanted and potentially brought to life.
Click to expand...

Here is more from The Daily Beast:

The year-long fight between Sofia Vergara and her ex-fiancé Nick Loeb concerning the fate of two frozen embryos seemed all but over this week. Now a surprise and bizarre lawsuit filed in Louisiana on behalf of the embryos themselves by a mysterious cast of characters has breathed new life into the dispute and is poised to challenge a never-before-tested decades-old statute that gives embryos in one of the county’s most pro-life states, rights as people.
While it may seem like a longshot, legal experts reached by The Daily Beast say the plaintiffs have got a small, but very real chance at some kind of success.
The petition, filed in Jefferson Parish on Wednesday afternoon and reviewed by The Daily Beast, lists three plaintiffs: two embryos named Isabella and Emma, and ... the trustee of a fund meant to provide for [the embryos'] health, education, maintenance, and support.
Click to expand...
 
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Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

Today in unhinged political screeds: Had to listen to my dad on abortion:

"All Planned Parenthood does is perform abortions."
"Women who get abortions deserve to die in back alleys."
"If you don't want kids, keep your legs closed."
"Doctors who perform abortions should be given the death penalty."
"There are other places that provide family-planning services."

And on he went. I asked for evidence of his wild-***, hair shirt claims, and he still kept talking.

Finally, I responded with this:

"Dad, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

ShirtlessBob said:
Today in unhinged political screeds: Had to listen to my dad on abortion:

"All Planned Parenthood does is perform abortions."
"Women who get abortions deserve to die in back alleys."
"If you don't want kids, keep your legs closed."
"Doctors who perform abortions should be given the death penalty."
"There are other places that provide family-planning services."

And on he went. I asked for evidence of his wild-***, hair shirt claims, and he still kept talking.

Finally, I responded with this:

"Dad, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
Click to expand...

Happy Easter! ;)
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

If, like many on the left, you are a proponent of "disparate impact,"[SUP]1[/SUP] then abortion (as practiced in the USA, at least) is automatically racist:

According to Centers for Disease Control, in 2013, for blacks, there were 420 abortions for every 1,000 live births. For whites, there were 121 abortions for every 1,000 live births.

In other words, 30% of black pregnancies end in abortion, while 11% of white pregnancies end in abortion.





[SUP]1[/SUP] Adverse effect of a practice or standard that is neutral and non-discriminatory in its intention but, nonetheless, disproportionately affects individuals belonging to a particular group based on their age, ethnicity, race, or sex
 
FreshFish said:
If, like many on the left, you are a proponent of "disparate impact,"[SUP]1[/SUP] then abortion (as practiced in the USA, at least) is automatically racist:

According to Centers for Disease Control, in 2013, for blacks, there were 420 abortions for every 1,000 live births. For whites, there were 121 abortions for every 1,000 live births.

In other words, 30% of black pregnancies end in abortion, while 11% of white pregnancies end in abortion.





[SUP]1[/SUP] Adverse effect of a practice or standard that is neutral and non-discriminatory in its intention but, nonetheless, disproportionately affects individuals belonging to a particular group based on their age, ethnicity, race, or sex
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Or it could mean that African Americans are more likely to live in circumstances where they feel they may not have the resources to properly raise a child, perhaps because government aid is being cut dramatically, and therefore abortion is a rational choice.

Your statement also assumes abortions are inherently wrong, a sentiment which roughly 2/3rds of the country disagrees with.
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

FreshFish said:
If, like many on the left, you are a proponent of "disparate impact,"[SUP]1[/SUP] then abortion (as practiced in the USA, at least) is automatically racist
Click to expand...

Disparate impact refers to impositions on a person, not actions taken by a person. Your argument comes back to the fundamental error that a clump of cells is a person. It's not. The person in the situation is the woman.

However, you do bring up the excellent point that by your own example state laws harassing women seeking abortions are inherently racist by disparate impact. Thank you for the excellent ammunition.
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

unofan said:
Or it could mean that African Americans are more likely to live in circumstances where they feel they may not have the resources to properly raise a child, perhaps because government aid is being cut dramatically, and therefore abortion is a rational choice.
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It could also reflect less education on and access to contraceptives.
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

wolverineTrumpet said:
It could also reflect less education on and access to contraceptives.
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The correct answer. ^^^^



Now let's take that information and make sure we take sex ed out of the schools, eliminate awareness funding, give everyone purity rings, and say a little prayer.
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

unofun said:
Your statement also assumes abortions are inherently wrong.
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This response assumes "disparate impact racism" is always wrong.....many people do agree that the mere existence of "disparate impact" itself does not necessarily prove racism exists. Refreshing to see that your logic forces you to agree!


More seriously, you misapply the word "wrong." Nearly every abortion[SUP]1[/SUP], as noted by many people here, is merely an indication that other, less extreme methods of birth control did not work for some reason or another. Perhaps they were not even tried; due to lack of education or lack of access.

I do think most reasonable people would agree that abortion "should not" be a birth control method of choice, because other, better, earlier methods exist, could be made readily available, and pose far fewer health risks to the mother.





[SUP]1[/SUP] not including rape and incest
 
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Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

Kepler said:
the fundamental error that a clump of cells is a person.
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You make a nascent human being sound like a form of cancer; a parasite forcing itself upon a woman against her will.




That clump of cells may not yet be developmentally a "person;" there is no doubt however that it is genetically human.
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

FreshFish said:
It seems like the historical roots of Planned Parenthood indicate that one of the reasons it was founded by Margaret Sanger was as a way to slow the birth rate of that portion of the population that she deemed to be "genetically inferior."

From NPR fact check:



There is nothing here necessarily to suggest that Sanger herself was motivated by racial animus.
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That's well known and has been debated and discussed ad nauseam.
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

ScoobyDoo said:
That's well known and has been debated and discussed ad nauseam.
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One form of racism assumes that all blacks are genetically inferior, no?

For those people, promoting a disproportionately larger number of abortions among blacks would then be a way to reduce the rate of growth of the black portion of the population.

An internet search quickly shows that a number of black activists view abortion as attempted genocide; just google "abortion black genocide" and see how many hits you get!

A quick scan indicates that about half the hits view it that way, while the other half are furious attempts to debunk it....and why does one even bother to try to debunk something unless they think it has enough of a following to warrant being debunked in the first place?

https://www.google.com/search?q=abo.....69i57j0l3.3411j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

FreshFish said:
One form of racism assumes that all blacks are genetically inferior, no?

For those people, promoting a disproportionately larger number of abortions among blacks would then be a way to reduce the rate of growth of the black portion of the population.

An internet search quickly shows that a number of black activists view abortion as attempted genocide; just google "abortion black genocide" and see how many hits you get!

A quick scan indicates that about half the hits view it that way, while the other half are furious attempts to debunk it....and why does one even bother to try to debunk something unless they think it has enough of a following to deserve to be debunked in the first place?

https://www.google.com/search?q=abo.....69i57j0l3.3411j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Click to expand...

Abortion in America isn't genocide, it's choice. Did you even bother to read post #371? Or no?
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

Why are we dragging PP into this? Their mission hasn't involved eugenics in several decades.

Anyone who brings up Sanger and her racism is just distracting from the modern day facts.
 
FreshFish said:
You make a nascent human being sound like a form of cancer; a parasite forcing itself upon a woman against her will.




That clump of cells may not yet be developmentally a "person;" there is no doubt however that it is genetically human.
Click to expand...

By that logic, an acorn is an oak tree and squirrels are the world's greatest monsters.
 
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