du78
Gunning For 10
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time
Chris Terreri had a little something to do with that
Chris Terreri had a little something to do with that
USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
The Greatest Coaches of All-Time
- Thread starter Fighting Sioux 23
- Start date
Gotta keep Ferny Flaman.
Fighting Sioux 23
New member
Last edited:
du78
Gunning For 10
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time
I added them to the Lester Patrick list for you so there are now 15 LP winners. Definitely the most pretigious award given in the U.S. for lifetime service to hockey. I remember when Murray found out he had won and was thrilled to have won it. Ironic that he and Mariucci won it the same year.
Also:
Edward Jeremiah
Ralph "Cooney" Weiland
The '60 and '80 US Olympic team won it as well. Not sure if that would mean Herb Brooks would get 3.
I added them to the Lester Patrick list for you so there are now 15 LP winners. Definitely the most pretigious award given in the U.S. for lifetime service to hockey. I remember when Murray found out he had won and was thrilled to have won it. Ironic that he and Mariucci won it the same year.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time
OK well that seems a little unnecessary, but more power to him...
OK well that seems a little unnecessary, but more power to him...
Fighting Sioux 23
New member
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time
50 nominations is what I was originally shooting for. FWIW, 29 coaches have won National Championships. Given that, and the number of very good coaches that failed to win a title, or have yet to win a title, I thought 50 was a solid number.
50 nominations is what I was originally shooting for. FWIW, 29 coaches have won National Championships. Given that, and the number of very good coaches that failed to win a title, or have yet to win a title, I thought 50 was a solid number.
Charlie Holt. Unh .....
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time
I really enjoyed your 'greatest programs' thread and look forward to the results of your formula when applied to coaches.
I am curious as to whether your formula will be 'discerning a difference' or not in several situations:
Situation I:
Coach A takes teams to Frozen Four five times, wins three, all with same team.
Coach B takes team Y to Frozen Four twice, wins one; he takes team Z to Frozen Four three times, wins 2.
Same total record; any difference between all at one school or not?
Situation II:
Coach C is hired at established program; in his first five years goes to Frozen Four twice, winning once.
When Coach D starts at school X, there is no hockey program; they do not even have an indoor rink. In his first five years he goes to Frozen Four twice, winning once.
Same result in formula, or different?
Situation III:
Coach E is noted as a good recruiter; he has scholarships to offer which he uses wisely.
Coach F is noted as a good recruiter despite his inability to offer sholarships.
Coach G's record as a recruiter includes a significant number of Canadians in their early 20s starting as first-year students at his school. One could say that he is good at convincing non-typical students of the value of a college degree; or one could suggest that something else might be going on instead.
Same result in formula, or different?
Situation IV:
Not only does Coach H have a good record as hockey coach, he also coaches another sport in a different season, and won a championship in that sport as well. Does that matter at all?
I really enjoyed your 'greatest programs' thread and look forward to the results of your formula when applied to coaches.
I am curious as to whether your formula will be 'discerning a difference' or not in several situations:
Situation I:
Coach A takes teams to Frozen Four five times, wins three, all with same team.
Coach B takes team Y to Frozen Four twice, wins one; he takes team Z to Frozen Four three times, wins 2.
Same total record; any difference between all at one school or not?
Situation II:
Coach C is hired at established program; in his first five years goes to Frozen Four twice, winning once.
When Coach D starts at school X, there is no hockey program; they do not even have an indoor rink. In his first five years he goes to Frozen Four twice, winning once.
Same result in formula, or different?
Situation III:
Coach E is noted as a good recruiter; he has scholarships to offer which he uses wisely.
Coach F is noted as a good recruiter despite his inability to offer sholarships.
Coach G's record as a recruiter includes a significant number of Canadians in their early 20s starting as first-year students at his school. One could say that he is good at convincing non-typical students of the value of a college degree; or one could suggest that something else might be going on instead.
Same result in formula, or different?
Situation IV:
Not only does Coach H have a good record as hockey coach, he also coaches another sport in a different season, and won a championship in that sport as well. Does that matter at all?
Last edited:
Fighting Sioux 23
New member
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time
So, in my formula it doesn't matter where the coach coached, or what the situation was when they became coaching. It also doesn't matter if the coach coached two programs for 15 years each, or one program for 30 years. There is also no difference for coaching w/athletic scholarships versus without. Finally, I looked only at their time coaching a Division 1 hockey program.
Hopefully that answers your questions.
So, in my formula it doesn't matter where the coach coached, or what the situation was when they became coaching. It also doesn't matter if the coach coached two programs for 15 years each, or one program for 30 years. There is also no difference for coaching w/athletic scholarships versus without. Finally, I looked only at their time coaching a Division 1 hockey program.
Hopefully that answers your questions.
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time
Not D-1, but I think a guy like Mike McShane at Norwich should be considered. He coached at PC and SLU, but has won 3 national titles at Norwich and has turned that program in a D3 dynasty while coaching at a Military school in Norwich. 12 straight regular season championships, 8 tournament titles, and led his team to a 26-1 record last year while winning the national title. If this thread is just about hockey coaches, and not D1 guys, McShane has to be considered.
Not D-1, but I think a guy like Mike McShane at Norwich should be considered. He coached at PC and SLU, but has won 3 national titles at Norwich and has turned that program in a D3 dynasty while coaching at a Military school in Norwich. 12 straight regular season championships, 8 tournament titles, and led his team to a 26-1 record last year while winning the national title. If this thread is just about hockey coaches, and not D1 guys, McShane has to be considered.
GoldenBear
Let's Go Saints
How about Terry Martin who won 14 National Championships as the coach of the Canton Tech Northmen in the NJCAA
Puck Swami
New member
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time
As long as the players are NCAA eligible, who cares how old they are or where they come from? You play within NCAA rules and get the best student-athletes you can to come to your school. Coaches who win with these players should be treated no differently.
As long as the players are NCAA eligible, who cares how old they are or where they come from? You play within NCAA rules and get the best student-athletes you can to come to your school. Coaches who win with these players should be treated no differently.
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time
Well, the 'as long as' part of your response was sometimes a gray area with this coach.....also, I believe the dean of students would care (one hopes!) that the players actually attend classes and (gasp!) graduate with a BA and actually had a legitimate transcript included with their application to attend college.
There were some questions about this particular coach, having 23-year old first-year students (on multiple occasions), as to whether everything about their admission to the school and their financial support while attending the school were completely on the up and up, or not. Back then the NCAA investigation and enforcement was a lot different than it is now. As far as I know, nothing was ever proven. Some of these allegations reminded me of stories about Jerry Tarkanian and UNLV basketball from the late '80s and early '90s (though none of the players recruited by this hockey coach ever had legal problems as far as I know).
Besides, FS23 indicated that this element would not matter in his formula, if I understood his answer correctly.
I was just curious as to what criteria different people might use, and why.
Well, the 'as long as' part of your response was sometimes a gray area with this coach.....also, I believe the dean of students would care (one hopes!) that the players actually attend classes and (gasp!) graduate with a BA and actually had a legitimate transcript included with their application to attend college.
There were some questions about this particular coach, having 23-year old first-year students (on multiple occasions), as to whether everything about their admission to the school and their financial support while attending the school were completely on the up and up, or not. Back then the NCAA investigation and enforcement was a lot different than it is now. As far as I know, nothing was ever proven. Some of these allegations reminded me of stories about Jerry Tarkanian and UNLV basketball from the late '80s and early '90s (though none of the players recruited by this hockey coach ever had legal problems as far as I know).
Besides, FS23 indicated that this element would not matter in his formula, if I understood his answer correctly.
I was just curious as to what criteria different people might use, and why.
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time
Will you publish your formula at the end of the series? I wonder if there might be a place to tweak it a little bit; I would think many people would submit that there is a difference between greatest 'coach' and greatest 'administrator of a hockey program at a division I school.'
(some college basketball coaches at big-time programs have a staff of assistants that work full-time with various sub-groups; not sure if hockey programs have four or five assistants who work with sub-groups in analogous manner or not).
and to me, graduation rate of players would be an important criteria for 'greatest' coach, to contrast him from the 'greatest user of young men to further his own ambitions.' When you hear about some division I basketball programs with a graduation rate under 50%, you have to wonder how 'great' that coach can be overall, even if he is successful at winning games.
Will you publish your formula at the end of the series? I wonder if there might be a place to tweak it a little bit; I would think many people would submit that there is a difference between greatest 'coach' and greatest 'administrator of a hockey program at a division I school.'
(some college basketball coaches at big-time programs have a staff of assistants that work full-time with various sub-groups; not sure if hockey programs have four or five assistants who work with sub-groups in analogous manner or not).
and to me, graduation rate of players would be an important criteria for 'greatest' coach, to contrast him from the 'greatest user of young men to further his own ambitions.' When you hear about some division I basketball programs with a graduation rate under 50%, you have to wonder how 'great' that coach can be overall, even if he is successful at winning games.
Last edited:
Fighting Sioux 23
New member
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time
The formula for this is nearly identical to the formula I used for the Greatest Programs thread. I discussed which criteria were considered and which were ultimately used.
I would love to have a "graduation rate" component to the coaches formula, but I couldn't find enough data, especially from the early years of college hockey. If you know of a database where this could be found, let me know. Generally, college hockey has very high graduation rates, so I'm not sure how much it would change the ranking. It would still be interesting to see.
The formula for this is nearly identical to the formula I used for the Greatest Programs thread. I discussed which criteria were considered and which were ultimately used.
I would love to have a "graduation rate" component to the coaches formula, but I couldn't find enough data, especially from the early years of college hockey. If you know of a database where this could be found, let me know. Generally, college hockey has very high graduation rates, so I'm not sure how much it would change the ranking. It would still be interesting to see.
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time
Doubt there would be a centralized database, and while I am curious, my curiosity alone is not a strong enough motivator to have me search old college yearbooks one by one!
Doubt there would be a centralized database, and while I am curious, my curiosity alone is not a strong enough motivator to have me search old college yearbooks one by one!
Fighting Sioux 23
New member
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time
Yeah, that's the difficulty I have found. For the most part, you can find graduation rates from the past 10-20 years or so, but anything older than that, and it is just not there. I honestly don't even know if they kept track of such a thing in the early years of college hockey, or at least not every school did.
Yeah, that's the difficulty I have found. For the most part, you can find graduation rates from the past 10-20 years or so, but anything older than that, and it is just not there. I honestly don't even know if they kept track of such a thing in the early years of college hockey, or at least not every school did.