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The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

FS23, does your formula take into consideration when a team wins 95 games in the three seasons before you take over and then needs eight seasons after you leave to win another 95?
 
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

buoldtimer said:
Can you cite a specific example of someone making this statement?
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It's a long story. Whitehead has a few defenders in Maine threads on USCHO. A while back, some Maine fans were expressing disappointment over the uni's decision never to have a full search to replace Walsh. This was about the time that Blais returned to college hockey, and not too long after Jackson's return...

Anyway, one of Whitehead's defenders made it a point to sarcastically congratulate Jeff Jackson every time that Notre Dame had a bad game (you can't replace leadership like that!, etc). It got old. (To be fair, some of the stoopider anti-Whitehead stuff got old, too).

Anyway, it's an inside reference. No need to get into the gory details on this fine thread. Leave it for the Maine threads.
 
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

Priceless said:
FS23, does your formula take into consideration when a team wins 95 games in the three seasons before you take over and then needs eight seasons after you leave to win another 95?
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Unfortunately not. I was debating about using some sort of comparison between the coach's time at the school and the success said program had when that coach was not there.
 
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

bothman said:
And why can't you come up with a system that takes into effect the advantages? Every player on a roster can be given a ranking (ie, #1 if NHL First Round Draft pick, #10 if a non-schollie, walk-on). Take a weighted average for every team to account for roster size disparities.

Hypothetically, let's say you did that for Minny (score of 3.4) and RIT (score of 7.5). You could come up with a resasonable system that handicaps each team based on the talent on the roster. It could get to a point, where even though Minny's winning % was much higher than RIT in a season, RIT's coach is better because he won more than he should have given the talent he had to work with (and I understand you'd also have to handicap the fact that RIT plays worse competition than does Minny)
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Part of being a great coach is the ability to recruit, the ability to take a less than ideal situation and sell student-athletes on that situtation. When Blais took over at UND, the Sioux were down. They weren't competitive for top talent. Blais won his first national championship at UND with a roster composed largely of kids that most other top programs weren't overly interested in. But Blais turned them into a national championship team. After becoming regular national title contenders again, the Sioux became competative for more of the top-end talent.

I image Blais will come out fairly well in this analysis. If he does, it goes far beyond just his wins/losses. It reflects his ability to take a down program located in a back-water location that was difficult to recruit to and make it attractive to top talent again. Using a system that handicaps a team based on the talent on the roster would punish a coach like Blais over the long run for doing the very thing that makes a coach a great coach, turning his team into an annual contender and making his team attractive to top talent. Therefore, I would personally reject your contention that such handicapping gives a truer picture of a coaches' ability.
 
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

ecbrevik said:
Part of being a great coach is the ability to recruit, the ability to take a less than ideal situation and sell student-athletes on that situtation. When Blais took over at UND, the Sioux were down. They weren't competitive for top talent. Blais won his first national championship at UND with a roster composed largely of kids that most other top programs weren't overly interested in. But Blais turned them into a national championship team. After becoming regular national title contenders again, the Sioux became competative for more of the top-end talent.

I image Blais will come out fairly well in this analysis. If he does, it goes far beyond just his wins/losses. It reflects his ability to take a down program located in a back-water location that was difficult to recruit to and make it attractive to top talent again. Using a system that handicaps a team based on the talent on the roster would punish a coach like Blais over the long run for doing the very thing that makes a coach a great coach, turning his team into an annual contender and making his team attractive to top talent. Therefore, I would personally reject your contention that such handicapping gives a truer picture of a coaches' ability.
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Glad you admit that. :D:p
 
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

#15 - Dean Blais
Coached at North Dakota from 1994-2004
Coached at Nebraska-Omaha from 2009-present
Dean Blais comes in at #15. Dean Blais began his D-1 coaching career at North Dakota, taking over for the legendary Gino Gasparini. North Dakota was a program with a great history, but little recent success. Blais turned things around very quickly. In only his third season, Blais led the Fighting Sioux to the 1997 National Championship. The Sioux would make 2 more Frozen Fours in Blais' time there, winning the title in 2000 and falling short in OT to Boston College in 2001. While at North Dakota, Blais made 7 trips to the NCAA Tournament, and had only 1 losing season in 10 years in Grand Forks. After a brief soiree in the professional ranks, Blais came back to college hockey in 2009, taking over the Nebraksa-Omaha program. In his two seasons at Omaha, Blais helped the Mavs with their transition over to the WCHA, and has posted back to back 20 win seasons. Blais also led UNO to only their second NCAA Tournament this past season. All together, Blais has coached 12 years, has only 1 losing season, has won 20+ games 9 times, 30+ wins 5 times, 8 trips to the NCAA Tournament, 3 Frozen Fours, and 2 National Championships. If Blais can continue leading the Mavs in the right direction, he has an opportunity to move up the rankings. For now, Blais sits at #15.

Points: 136.84
 
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

HoosierBBall_GopherHockey said:
Glad you admit that. :D:p
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Priceless said:
He meant UNO. ;)
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:D

It doesn't take a genius to realize that Grand Forks does have some disadvantages in the recruiting game. The coaches who have won at UND have done so despite those disadvantages. Every program comes with its strong and weak points that a coach has to work with if he is to be successful.
 
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

Thought I'd throw out my guess for top 5:

1. Murray Armstrong
2. Vic Heyliger
3. Jerry York
4. John MacInnes
5. Red Berenson

I'm just hoping I got 3 out of the 5. :p
 
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

ecbrevik said:
:D

It doesn't take a genius to realize that Grand Forks does have some disadvantages in the recruiting game. The coaches who have won at UND have done so despite those disadvantages. Every program comes with its strong and weak points that a coach has to work with if he is to be successful.
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What recruiting disadvantages? it's just like home to all the Canadians after all, and unless you are an absolute idiot, it's open bar and all you can drink for the rest. One big Canadian drunk fest. Oh, maybe you actually meant the "hostile and abusive" nickname thing.
 
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

Happy said:
What recruiting disadvantages? ... it's open bar ...
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Do they have drive-through liquor stores there as well? I was surprised to see how prevalent they were in Wyoming (at least to the extent that anything to do with humans is 'prevalent' there....)
 
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

Nick Papagiorgio said:
Hahahahhahahaha.

Typical.
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Are you arguing that he shouldn't be top 5? 850+ wins, 3 national titles, 11 conference titles, 23 NCAA appearances, 13 Frozen Fours, 30 NCAA tourney wins, 24 20-win seasons, 3 Spencer Penrose Awards, 23 Olympians, 50+ NHLers, 27 All-Americans and 2 Hobey Baker winners is one hell of a resume.
 
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

FreshFish said:
Do they have drive-through liquor stores there as well? I was surprised to see how prevalent they were in Wyoming (at least to the extent that anything to do with humans is 'prevalent' there....)
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heck, they serve sugar beet vodka to junior high kids just to get them though the winter.
 
Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

Happy said:
What recruiting disadvantages? it's just like home to all the Canadians after all, and unless you are an absolute idiot, it's open bar and all you can drink for the rest. One big Canadian drunk fest. Oh, maybe you actually meant the "hostile and abusive" nickname thing.
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I was thinking more along the lines of being across the river from Minnesota. Really, who wants to live in close proximity to Minnesota??? :p :D
 
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