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The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

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Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

FreshFish said:
It seemed to me that, if/when done properly, "corporal" punishment is never about inflicting actual pain, it is merely done to evoke fear: "don't do this, or else!" and leave the dread of the "or else" to be sufficient. For example, in Catholic elementary school, "corporal" punishment would be more about shaming a person in front of his peers, you'd stand up, stick out your hand, and get a yardstick across the knuckles. The sting would fade in 90 seconds, the shame of public humiliation would last far longer.

fundamentally, it is the idea of a parent's disapproval being so very strong, that is the message required to discipline the child, not any actual physical pain. the shock that a parent would hit should be far stronger than any actual blow.
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In the Pio household it was "wait in the basement, your father will be down to tend to you shortly." Only he never came. He and my mother would have a cocktail, then announce I'd been given a reprieve "this one time only." I didn't catch on to the dodge 'till I was about 27.

Anyone who delivers injuries to any child's genitalia, for any reason whatsoever, has committed a crime. Period. Peterson is a criminal.
 
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Old Pio said:
I'm supposed to justify my service to a bunch of feather merchants? The principal issue here, IMO, is not what I did while in uniform. Rather, it's that I haven't "learned my lesson." If I expressed the same opinions as y'all do on the use of American military power, I'd imagine you wouldn't characterize my occasional references to my service as "bragging." Rather, I'd be an example you'd quote. The buried premise in all of this childish prattle is the only veterans allowed to have opinions at variance with yours are Audie Murphy and Alvin York.
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OP just knocked Bob off the cross.
 
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

dxmnkd316 said:
For the record. AP didn't intentionally strike the kid's junk.
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That clown says it was unintentional. And you believe him? Why? And even if it's true, it makes a difference to you? Again, why? Would you accept the "unintentional" excuse if it was your b*lls?
 
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Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Gurtholfin said:
OP just knocked Bob off the cross.
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That's unfair to Bob. He's got actual (admittedly, wrongheaded ;) ) principles, and I'd be proud to have a beer with him. He's not on the Saint Joan rag like Pio.

As for the latter's back-peddling squeals, to quote an even sillier righty, "if you're not getting flack, you're not over the target." :p
 
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

I agree with Old Pio here. There's really no acceptable excuse. What, "I was only trying to lacerate the legs and buttocks, so it's OK"?
 
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

geezer said:
I agree with Old Pio here. There's really no acceptable excuse. What, "I was only trying to lacerate the legs and buttocks, so it's OK"?
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I don't think excuses is the real conversation. I think the real conversation is we still have many states that allow this crap and many "cultural" areas in the US that thinks it's right. That's the problem. If they really want to live in the 12th century I have the perfect place for them to live.
 
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

solovsfett said:
That's a good point, however...they don't want to live as you say "in the 12th century" solely apart from us, that's not good enough for ISIS, AQ, or any other group who reads so literally words written 1400 years ago. They want the entire world to live that way and are willing to lop off heads, fly planes into buildings and who knows how much worse it will get if they're left to their own devices? That's what makes this a war that could last not decades but centuries, and will no doubt reach into 20 or more countries pretty easily if it hasn't already.
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For that matter, if ISIS wanted to live in the 12th century that would be tolerable -- in the 12th century the Muslims were kicking the west's *** up and down the arts and science leaderboard. It was only when a backwater group of dimwitted fundies seized control of the state and forced a religious literalist philosophy and lifestyle down everybody's throat that the Islamic world became a dead end.

History doesn't repeat, but it rhymes.
 
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Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

FreshFish said:
It seemed to me that, if/when done properly, "corporal" punishment is never about inflicting actual pain, it is merely done to evoke fear: "don't do this, or else!" and leave the dread of the "or else" to be sufficient. For example, in Catholic elementary school, "corporal" punishment would be more about shaming a person in front of his peers, you'd stand up, stick out your hand, and get a yardstick across the knuckles. The sting would fade in 90 seconds, the shame of public humiliation would last far longer.

fundamentally, it is the idea of a parent's disapproval being so very strong, that is the message required to discipline the child, not any actual physical pain. the shock that a parent would hit should be far stronger than any actual blow.
Click to expand...

aka, "emotional abuse"; someone has explained this very deeply to me over the last year or so, and it's a very ungood thing to do to a kid. The effects of "dread" and "shaming" can be just as bad as hitting.
 
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

geezer said:
aka, "emotional abuse"; someone has explained this very deeply to me over the last year or so, and it's a very ungood thing to do to a kid. The effects of "dread" and "shaming" can be just as bad as hitting.
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Exactly.

If you have to invoke fear in order to maintain your authority over a child, you fail and shouldn't be in authority.
 
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

I think I got spanked maybe once? My dad's model of discipline mostly involved having to sit on the couch while he yelled at me for whatever wrong I had done (which he learned from my grandmother, who "wore the pants" and still does). This is also how he has run his business for 35 years, so it's really the only thing he knows how to do to get his point across.
 
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Kepler said:
For that matter, if ISIS wanted to live in the 12th century that would be tolerable -- in the 12th century the Muslims were kicking the west's *** up and down the arts and science leaderboard. It was only when a backwater group of dimwitted fundies seized control of the state and forced a religious literalist philosophy and lifestyle down everybody's throat that the Islamic world became a dead end.

History doesn't repeat, but it rhymes.
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I'll give you credit. You shoehorn pretty much everything into the same narrative. You get an "A" for creativity and effort.
 
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Bob Gray said:
I'll give you credit. You shoehorn pretty much everything into the same narrative. You get an "A" for creativity and effort.
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Not really, calling all conservatives "Taliban" and equating the beheading of infidels in the middle east with preserving children's lives in the womb has been unoriginal for a few years now.
 
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Bob Gray said:
I'll give you credit. You shoehorn pretty much everything into the same narrative. You get an "A" for creativity and effort.
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Well, to the man with only a hammer...

... but in this case it's a fair cop. Thinking ends where scriptural literalism begins. Religion is a very useful map as long as people remember it's a map. When they reify it as the actual territory, it always ends in tears.
 
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

geezer said:
aka, "emotional abuse"; someone has explained this very deeply to me over the last year or so, and it's a very ungood thing to do to a kid. The effects of "dread" and "shaming" can be just as bad as hitting.
Click to expand...

There's a fine line to walk between "shaming" a person because of unacceptable social behavior (seriously, don't we want people to be ashamed of themselves if they lie, cheat, steal, or deliberately try to harm someone?) and "shaming" a person because of innate or acquired attributes. In other words, certain behaviors "should be" shameful, because that sense of shame is a powerful incentive to avoid engaging in those behaviors in the future. We never want people to be ashamed of "who they are" but in many cases we as a society definitely do want people to be ashamed of what they do, when what they do is "wrong." That's a very powerful tool that societies use to enforce the rules of how we treat each other in a civil manner.

Don't we want wife-beaters and child abusers, once caught, to be so ashamed of themselves that they seek help and never do it again?




The way you phrased your response, it almost sounds like any form of discipline would be unacceptable. I'm sure that's not what you meant: discipline is essential.

The key question is, how do we transition from imposing discipline from without on a child to having the child learn to instill an internal sense of self-directed discipline?
 
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