The end of leagues as we know?

[redhawk95]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

There is no deal to be made, Notre Dame will not be even sniffed. The Big Ten has told them on multiple occasions it is all or nothing. So unless Notre Dame is willing to join for football and leave the Big East in everything else there is no reason for this even to be discussed.

And now with the Big 10 at, err, 12 teams, further expansion even including Notre Dame makes less sense than having 12 teams in a conference called the Big 10.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

I think Faison's comments, and Schlossman's article, are just angle shots by UND to negotiate the "Minnesota Rule" for UND at the Final 5 in a post Minnesota/Wisconsin WCHA.

Doubtful.

Per Schlossman...

"UND is having formal discussions about pulling out of the Western Collegiate Hockey Association and joining several other schools in creating a new power hockey league.

The new league is not a done deal, but sources say that the talks have progressed beyond preliminary stages."

 

[4four4]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Bingo, college hockey is not going to be bigger than it is now no matter what. This country just doesnt care to watch hockey outside of the Olympics. The sooner everyone accepts this the better.

The BTN needed more live programing for their brand.

 

[Dirty Bottles]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

You completely missed the main point. A WCHA consisting of Mankato, Bemidji, St. Cloud, Duluth, (and I wouldn't be surprised to see one r both of St. Cloud/Duluth go to the new conference) Tech, and Anchorage is, de facto, a D-II league. Nothing there tells casual fans "big-time college sports league."

That's pretty much the same schools we already play in other sports in the Northern Sun Conference. It's not only needing the gate from the games against the big schools. It's that the gate against the other schools will drop too, because the whole **** league will be seen as ho-hum.

I agree with MavsFan here. Speaking for myself, there is no way I continue to make the 2 hour round trip drive from the Twin Cities if we're in a 2nd rate conference. It's just not worth it....

 

[4four4]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Hint-o-rama: It doesn't exist. In all likelihood it won't ever exist and should that prove wrong it most certainly won't look like it's being talked about here.

DG and Puck Swami are both sitting back, rubbing their hands together with delight and saying to themselves ... look what we've created. Amazing how a lawyer and a marketing/public relations grad can get some many people all atwitter by creating a rumor.

+1 It really makes me go hmmm..

 

[willythekid]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

I agree with MavsFan here. Speaking for myself, there is no way I continue to make the 2 hour round trip drive from the Twin Cities if we're in a 2nd rate conference. It's just not worth it....

Jan is a 2nd rate school with a 2nd rate team and 2nd rate fans... she should fit quite nicely one would think.

 

[4four4]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

I agree with MavsFan here. Speaking for myself, there is no way I continue to make the 2 hour round trip drive from the Twin Cities if we're in a 2nd rate conference. It's just not worth it....

This is an interesting post. Currently, the state of Minnesota produces the most division one hockey players in the country and I think North America. IMO, no way would there be a 2nd rate conference with all the talent in the state of Minnesota. We are just going to wait and see what happens five years from now. It is going to get interesting.

 

[Dirty Bottles]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Jan is a 2nd rate school with a 2nd rate team and 2nd rate fans... she should fit quite nicely one would think.

And I've got nothing...except this 2nd rate response....

This is an interesting post. Currently, the state of Minnesota produces the most division one hockey players in the country and I think North America. IMO, no way would there be a 2nd rate conference with all the talent in the state of Minnesota. We are just going to wait and see what happens five years from now. It is going to get interesting.

Perhaps you're right but it's just hard to imagine a league that doesn't have UND, Denver, CC, UM, and Wisc being even remotely as fun and competitive.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

why would any league, team or fan want all the "good" team lumped into one league and all the "bad" teams into another. it makes no sense to me.

 

[Goon]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

I think D.G. is right, I believe this has nothing to do with the Minnesota Rule, I think it's more of a business decision with like minded schools with With the same philosophy... I also think "some of this" has to do with some of the schools in the WCHA not being fond of Bruce McLeod...

[Faison told the Herald that he has concerns with “the administrative side of the WCHA.” So perhaps this is all a big power play.

But this has gone beyond the spring rumors of a “Super Six” conference. The Herald reported that, because of scheduling, all of this might have to play out by late summer or early fall.

Could it be the end of the WCHA as we know it?

If so, it would not feel fine. http://mankatofreepress.com/sports/x1692752829/Frederick-WCHA-needs-to-hold-itself-together

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

And my point was that even though BSU basketball and football - sports that are nowhere near as popular as BSU hockey and likely closer to the 4th, 5th or 6th sporting option (behind high school and youth sports in Bemidji) can draw 105 fans in their sleep. Maybe you see it as there being "more to do" in Rochester than in Bemidji, but as I was just discussing yesterday, the stuff you can do in Bemidji is likely free or less expensive (youth sports, high school sports, ice fishing, snowmobiling, skiing, show shoeing, curling, etc. in winter, plus we have a nice symphony orchestra, and summer theatre - this perception that there is "more" to do in big cities is held by people that have never lived in small cities). I still don't see drawing .35% of your population as something to brag about. Sell out your AHL barn for RIT games every game (10,000 is 1.6% of the metro area) and then you an brag about attendance compared to BSU or Mankato.

First of all, I was not bragging about RIT's attendance relative to anyone. You missed my point completely. As opposed to a city like Bemidji or Mankato where the college hockey teams are most likely THE sports attraction in town for folks to spend their disposable income and Friday/Saturday evenings on, RIT hockey is not THE attraction by any means to the Rochester metro area. RIT's attendance really isn't being drawn from the Rochester metro area, but more primarily from the RIT community in Rochester. Yes, there are some people outside the RIT community that come regularly, but the overwhelming percentage of fans are from the students, staff, and alumni. So to say RIT only draws 0.35% (actually closer to 0.25%) of it's area's population is a mis-characterization of the situation. I honestly don't care if RIT or any other team is drawing .5% or 100% of their cities' populations. I just hope all college hockey teams can sell out every game and keep this great sport as strong and vital as ever.

When it comes to how much there is to do in various sized cities, my comments were not based on a perception, but on simple facts. Due simply to size, New York has more to do than Rochester, which has more to do than Bemidji. At least from me, that is meant in no way to be a slight to anyone. We constantly hear from twenty-somethings here about how "Rochester sucks. There's nothing to do here. I'm moving to New York (or Boston, or Philly, or DC, or Baltimore, etc.)". Of course there is more nightlife in big cities than in mid-sized cities... There are millions more people. It's just math. If one likes living in a big city, mid-size city, small city, or rural areas, that's their choice. Anyone can find things to do to entertain themselves if they look hard enough regardless of where they live.

 

[scsutommyboy]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

This is an interesting post. Currently, the state of Minnesota produces the most division one hockey players in the country and I think North America. IMO, no way would there be a 2nd rate conference with all the talent in the state of Minnesota. We are just going to wait and see what happens five years from now. It is going to get interesting.

If UMD goes to the new conference I can see the other MN schools dying because then the new conference has a good in and exposure to the state. If the Minnesota team stick to together it would be interenting to see how many kids from our state choose to go play at UND, DU and CC when they have no exposure in our state any more. I

If ND goes to hockey east then I don't see why the other WCHA schools would leave the conference.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

If ND goes to hockey east then I don't see why the other WCHA schools would leave the conference.

Well it could be argued they are making the move so it looks like they aren't weak when compared to the Big Ten. First they make a move, then we make a move to counter...basic little man syndrome

The fact that it would cost some of these schools more money for marginally better results should be the driving factor here. It won't be though. What is funny is that the UNDs and Denvers, fanbases worried that their teams will have issues without conference games against Minnesota and Wisconsin think somehow adding Miami and Western is going to keep interest alive. The logic is awesome!

If the Also Ran WCHA can keep UMD in the fold that could actually be a real fun conference to watch. If MSUM can find a way to keep interest alive after a few years that league could be considered better than a D-2 league with the talent this state produces.

 

[SiouxFanatic]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

I like towers made out of ivory.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

I like towers made out of ivory.

So did Ralphy...only because they were white though

 

[scsutommyboy]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Well it could be argued they are making the move so it looks like they aren't weak when compared to the Big Ten. First they make a move, then we make a move to counter...basic little man syndrome

The fact that it would cost some of these schools more money for marginally better results should be the driving factor here. It won't be though. What is funny is that the UNDs and Denvers, fanbases worried that their teams will have issues without conference games against Minnesota and Wisconsin think somehow adding Miami and Western is going to keep interest alive. The logic is awesome!

If the Also Ran WCHA can keep UMD in the fold that could actually be a real fun conference to watch. If MSUM can find a way to keep interest alive after a few years that league could be considered better than a D-2 league with the talent this state produces.

It will be interesting to watch. It would be pretty funny if all the minnesota talent screw the other teams like UND, CC and DU and stayed home to play for in state teams. SCSU is not that lucky, but it would be funny.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

It will be interesting to watch. It would be pretty funny if all the minnesota talent screw the other teams like UND, CC and DU and stayed home to play for in state teams. SCSU is not that lucky, but it would be funny.

Denver's Roster Last Season:

Canada 4
Colorado 7
Other States 12
Minnesota 2

Bemidji's Roster This Season:

Canada 14
Colorado 1
Other States 6
Minnesota 7

I think a new Minnesota-centric conference will reduce the pressure to take Canadians and a net result will be more Minnesotans playing college hockey for the local teams.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

I think D.G. is right, I believe this has nothing to do with the Minnesota Rule, I think it's more of a business decision with like minded schools with With the same philosophy... I also think "some of this" has to do with some of the schools in the WCHA not being fond of Bruce McLeod...

Wow, some of you are really wound too tight about this whole issue. Of course it has nothing to do with the "Minnesota Rule." I was kidding.

This whole thread, and frankly this whole issue ever since it was first brought up, is complete silliness on so many levels it boggles the mind.

1. The formation of a BTHC was not the idea of the Big 10 hockey coaches, administrators or fans, with very rare exception. It was done at a high administrative level, primarily by a television network that is desparate for programming. For anyone associated with non-Big 10 teams to conclude it was done as part of some master plan to strengthen and benefit Big 10 hockey programs is crazy.

2. The formation of a BTHC is not going to make all the Big 10 hockey programs into hockey recruiting powers. Someone in that league, year in and year out, is going to have to suck, just like occurs in college basketball, football, etc... Michigan and Minnesota may do great for a period of time. Penn St, Ohio St. and Michigan St. -- you guys are now the Minnesota football of college hockey. If we know for a fact that is going to be the case for the new BTHC, why would UND, DU, Miami, etc..., want to inflict that same punishment on themselves. Isn't it more fun, and ultimately more beneficial, just to keep finishing at the top, making the NCAA's and letting Michigan Tech and UAA suck?

3. Notre Dame isn't going to come play in the WCHA. They've already done that, and didn't really like it the first time. Notre Dame is like the hot chick everyone keeps hitting on (but who really isn't all that hot when you scrape off the makeup and silicone), but keeps turning everyone down. She likes the attention, keeps thinking someone richer will come along, but never commits. Stop wasting your time.

4. UND and DU would be best served by heading up a new WCHA conference. It will be similar to the current Hockey East, with a couple of dominant teams, another couple who are always in the mix, and some filler. Stop worring that the BTHC will become this behemoth that controls college hockey. Ain't going to happen.

 

[Hammy]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Wow, some of you are really wound too tight about this whole issue. Of course it has nothing to do with the "Minnesota Rule." I was kidding.

This whole thread, and frankly this whole issue ever since it was first brought up, is complete silliness on so many levels it boggles the mind.

1. The formation of a BTHC was not the idea of the Big 10 hockey coaches, administrators or fans, with very rare exception. It was done at a high administrative level, primarily by a television network that is desparate for programming. For anyone associated with non-Big 10 teams to conclude it was done as part of some master plan to strengthen and benefit Big 10 hockey programs is crazy.

2. The formation of a BTHC is not going to make all the Big 10 hockey programs into hockey recruiting powers. Someone in that league, year in and year out, is going to have to suck, just like occurs in college basketball, football, etc... Michigan and Minnesota may do great for a period of time. Penn St, Ohio St. and Michigan St. -- you guys are now the Minnesota football of college hockey. If we know for a fact that is going to be the case for the new BTHC, why would UND, DU, Miami, etc..., want to inflict that same punishment on themselves. Isn't it more fun, and ultimately more beneficial, just to keep finishing at the top, making the NCAA's and letting Michigan Tech and UAA suck?

3. Notre Dame isn't going to come play in the WCHA. They've already done that, and didn't really like it the first time. Notre Dame is like the hot chick everyone keeps hitting on (but who really isn't all that hot when you scrape off the makeup and silicone), but keeps turning everyone down. She likes the attention, keeps thinking someone richer will come along, but never commits. Stop wasting your time.

4. UND and DU would be best served by heading up a new WCHA conference. It will be similar to the current Hockey East, with a couple of dominant teams, another couple who are always in the mix, and some filler. Stop worring that the BTHC will become this behemoth that controls college hockey. Ain't going to happen.

I agree with most of your post and it is nice to see a Sioux fan with his feet on the ground about all of this. Well stated.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Wow, some of you are really wound too tight about this whole issue. Of course it has nothing to do with the "Minnesota Rule." I was kidding.

This whole thread, and frankly this whole issue ever since it was first brought up, is complete silliness on so many levels it boggles the mind.

1. The formation of a BTHC was not the idea of the Big 10 hockey coaches, administrators or fans, with very rare exception. It was done at a high administrative level, primarily by a television network that is desparate for programming. For anyone associated with non-Big 10 teams to conclude it was done as part of some master plan to strengthen and benefit Big 10 hockey programs is crazy.

2. The formation of a BTHC is not going to make all the Big 10 hockey programs into hockey recruiting powers. Someone in that league, year in and year out, is going to have to suck, just like occurs in college basketball, football, etc... Michigan and Minnesota may do great for a period of time. Penn St, Ohio St. and Michigan St. -- you guys are now the Minnesota football of college hockey. If we know for a fact that is going to be the case for the new BTHC, why would UND, DU, Miami, etc..., want to inflict that same punishment on themselves. Isn't it more fun, and ultimately more beneficial, just to keep finishing at the top, making the NCAA's and letting Michigan Tech and UAA suck?

3. Notre Dame isn't going to come play in the WCHA. They've already done that, and didn't really like it the first time. Notre Dame is like the hot chick everyone keeps hitting on (but who really isn't all that hot when you scrape off the makeup and silicone), but keeps turning everyone down. She likes the attention, keeps thinking someone richer will come along, but never commits. Stop wasting your time.

4. UND and DU would be best served by heading up a new WCHA conference. It will be similar to the current Hockey East, with a couple of dominant teams, another couple who are always in the mix, and some filler. Stop worring that the BTHC will become this behemoth that controls college hockey. Ain't going to happen.

Notre Dame in 2011 is a different animal that the '60s squads that were doormats in the WCHA.

• New $50 million arena w/ 5,000 seats

• Notre Dame hockey is a strong road draw

• National Championship level coach

• ND AD confirms Cable TV/Internet Network on the way

• Notre Dame football is no longer the beast that it once was and NBC revenue is no longer top-tier either