The end of leagues as we know?

[Montelena]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

It's a shame UMD didn't come to their senses and realize they could join a helluva hockey conference in UMD, SCSU, MTU, NMU, BSU, MSU. Six teams regionally located. All driving trips to keep their hockey budget in check and REGIONAL RIVALS - the one thing the "Little WCHA" does not have as a whole.

If UMD could be convinced in the next two years it's in their best interest to remain with their D II brethren this could be a very fun and competitive MN/MI league. And, certainly would continue to be competitive with the "Little WCHA".

There would be excellent facilities and all of these schools are comitted to the future of DI hockey at their schools. And, UMD already plays many of these other schools in their other sports.

I realize there are other scenarios but this makes too much sense to have this group together.

 

[bigmrg74]

It's a shame UMD didn't come to their senses and realize they could join a helluva hockey conference in UMD, SCSU, MTU, NMU, BSU, MSU. Six teams regionally located. All driving trips to keep their hockey budget in check and REGIONAL RIVALS - the one thing the "Little WCHA" does not have as a whole.

If UMD could be convinced in the next two years it's in their best interest to remain with their D II brethren this could be a very fun and competitive MN/MI league. And, certainly would continue to be competitive with the "Little WCHA".

There would be excellent facilities and all of these schools are comitted to the future of DI hockey at their schools. And, UMD already plays many of these other schools in their other sports.

I realize there are other scenarios but this makes too much sense to have this group together.

That's my thoughts on it as well. Tech and the other Minnesota schools could easily poach NMU and even LSSU perhaps for a fairly decent league that could easily keep their conference tournament in the twin cities, or perhaps somewhere like Green Bay perhaps. Heck, all those schools together in the area is the reason why I think it's nuts for a school like North Dakota to want to run off to a conference where they bus drivers are really going to have the hammer down if they want to get trips in within a day. Heck, you throw North Dakota into that upper Midwest mix of schools, you could even throw in the Ralph as a potential conference tournament site if they want to rotate them around. And doesn't Fargo have a decent sized arena that's around 10,000 or so??

 

[cF[Authentic]]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

It's a shame UMD didn't come to their senses and realize they could join a helluva hockey conference in UMD, SCSU, MTU, NMU, BSU, MSU. Six teams regionally located. All driving trips to keep their hockey budget in check and REGIONAL RIVALS - the one thing the "Little WCHA" does not have as a whole.

Is Duluth really that important of a team that without them "lots of programs will fold." However, with them, "its a helluva hockey conference." That makes no sense. The WCHA will still have BSU, SCSU, MSUM, MTU and UAA. Just add in NMU and it's still a 6 team conference, just with UAA (and the Alaska exepmtion) instead of UMD. If the UAA continues to pay a majority of travel and each school gets the extra home series, then it should be a good thing to keep them in the league.

The WCHA with Bemidji, St Cloud, Mankato, Tech, Anchorage and Northern would still be a very viable conference which keeps a lot of D2 rivalries in tact. Add in some non conference games with Duluth and that helps too. UND, as they have shown in the past with BSU, are willing to travel to local teams for non conference games. I'm guessing they will still travel to some current WCHA team's barns which will help with attendance numbers.

 

[Montelena]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Who said "lots of programs will fold". None will regardless of what UMD does. However, it makes total sense for them to stay with this group. I don't see what they gain in the "Little WCHA". They'll have more expenses and less rivalries. It doesn't make sense to me. CC, UNO and maybe Western Michigan? Are they a draw in Duluth? No they are not. It is a fact that SCSU is always one of the best draws. Bemidji would always be a good draw as well. Just my opinion but I hope spmeone gets to these folks in the next two years. UAA? At this point everyone has to make tough decisions. The Big Ten and now the "Little WCHA" have bailed out on trips to UAA. Why should the balance of the teams not do whats best for them. Why put the burdon on them UNLESS UAA steps forward and proves there is a strong committment to the health of their program and improvements to their facility.

 

[Skate79]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

When Hockey East was formed in 1985, it marked the slow but steady decay of the ECAC. Once a premier college hockey conference, the ECAC is now an afterthought that hasn't had a team in the Frozen Four since Cornell in '03. The same will hold true for the WCHA and especially the CCHA. It's all about the greenbacks and TV contracts and neither will be chasing either conference with these realignments. Too bad because I enjoyed watching WCHA games on Fox Sports North. I've got the Big Ten Network so thankfully I'll enjoy these teams regardless of the new conferences.

 

[smokeythebear]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

If anything, this is a great thing for USCHO.com and Inch website traffic, mass chaos!

 

[darker98]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

That's my thoughts on it as well. Tech and the other Minnesota schools could easily poach NMU and even LSSU perhaps for a fairly decent league that could easily keep their conference tournament in the twin cities, or perhaps somewhere like Green Bay perhaps. Heck, all those schools together in the area is the reason why I think it's nuts for a school like North Dakota to want to run off to a conference where they bus drivers are really going to have the hammer down if they want to get trips in within a day. Heck, you throw North Dakota into that upper Midwest mix of schools, you could even throw in the Ralph as a potential conference tournament site if they want to rotate them around. And doesn't Fargo have a decent sized arena that's around 10,000 or so??

Are you serious Monster? Hockey is the biggest sport here statewide. We are not going to play DII teams because they are close. Once the 2 biggest draws left, we had to go as well.

 

[joecct]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Both new conference will not receive an automatic bid for their first two seasons and the WCHA and CHAA could lose their autobids

NCAA Division I Bylaws:
31.3.4.2 Requirements—National Collegiate Championship. [#] To be eligible for automatic qualification in a National Collegiate Championship, a member conference must meet the following general requirements: (Adopted: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)
(a) Have at least six active members that sponsor the applicable sport in any division (Note: a provisional member in the process of becoming an NCAA member cannot be used to meet the requisite number);
(b) The six active members must have conducted conference competition together for the preceding two years in the applicable sport;
(c) There shall be no waivers of the two-year waiting period; and
(d) Any new member added to a conference that is eligible for an automatic bid shall be immediately eligible to represent the conference as the automatic qualifier.

Sean -- why are you quoting the by-law for a National Collegiate Championship?? Men's ice hockey does not have one (yet). The women have a D-I/II NCC.

No, schools are not allowed to "play up" to Division I any more, unless they are currently doing so. No distinction is made between Division II and Division III in this respect.

Also, it was clarified back in February that Division II institutions outside of the United States are not eligible for Division I tournaments: "The cabinet reviewed Constitution 3.1.1, which limits Division I membership to colleges, universities, athletics conferences or associations, and other groups that are related to intercollegiate athletics that are accredited by one of the six regional accrediting agencies and that are located in the United States, its territories or possessions, and agreed that the principle set forth in such legislation should also apply to eligibility for participation in a Division I championship." (emphasis added).

Source: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/DI_Admin_Cab/Feb 2011/Feb 2011 Report.pdf page 2, item 1(c).

Yep - here is the relevant legislation as passed in proposal 2010-100 https://web1.ncaa.org/LSDBi/exec/propSearch

Bylaw 20.4.1
A member of Division II or Division III may have a sport classified in Division I, provided the sport was so classified during the 2010-11 academic year. Such a classification shall continue until the institution fails to conduct the sport in Division I in any following academic year.

Every thing else that is now in place was struck when it came to playing up. Thus, if a Division II school wants to sponsor ice hockey, unless they are in the East and want to play in the D-III leagues (without any shot @ an NCAA bid), they're up a creek. Which begs somebody in the D-II world to put legislation in to sponsor a National Collegiate Championship for Division I/II men's ice hockey.

 

[Sean Pickett]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Sean -- why are you quoting the by-law for a National Collegiate Championship?? Men's ice hockey does not have one (yet). The women have a D-I/II NCC.

Because that is the bylaw that covers conference membership requirements for receiving automatic qualification and bylaw 31.3.4 states "a governing sport committee shall ensure that the member conference meets the requirements specified in Bylaws 31.3.4.1 through 31.3.4.7."

Sean

 

[Biddco]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Bruce stats it well here:

http://ciskie.blogspot.com/2011/07/...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

I think you missed my point(s).

All I'm saying is that the Tech, Mavs, UAA and SCSU fans who are accusing the big schools of bad behavior are on shaky ground with their own schools trying, but ultimately failing, to do the same thing.

But that's where you're wrong. There is moral grounds for supporting fellow WCHA schools before other schools. You may disagree with that point of view...but you cannot say there is no moral grounds for feeling an allegiance to your own conference that you don't feel for schools in other conferences. And therefore it is not the same thing for others.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Bruce stats it well here:

http://ciskie.blogspot.com/2011/07/...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/zDAmPIq29ro" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[dggoddard]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

If UMD could be convinced in the next two years it's in their best interest to remain with their D II brethren this could be a very fun and competitive MN/MI league. And, certainly would continue to be competitive with the "Little WCHA".

UMD joined the Super League because recruiting guys like Connolly, Connolly & Fontaine leads to banners being raised in the rafters [Iron range kids mixed with Canadians].

The same motivation that drove DU, UND, CC, UNO & Miami. Recruiting.

UMD just signed Sandelin to fancy new extension. DU is about to pay Gwozdecky big, big dollars. There's no reason to pay these guys big dollars if you were going to remain in the WCHA without big time opponents [Minnesota, Wisconsin].

Almost certainly UMD will be playing a pretty steady diet of non-conference games against the Minnesota schools.

 

[geezer]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

There's no reason to pay these guys big dollars if you were going to remain in the WCHA without big time opponents

That's an ignorant argument when 5 of the (original) 6 "Super Teams" are from the WCHA. They were already on your schedule.

 

[Rich]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

The main reporter for CC has an article on his opinions on some of the reasons CC joined the Super League:

http://cchockey.freedomblogging.com...he-reasons-why-behind-the-super-league/22661/

 

[Flashy Man]

The main reporter for CC has an article on his opinions on some of the reasons CC joined the Super League:

http://cchockey.freedomblogging.com...he-reasons-why-behind-the-super-league/22661/

He missed one glaring reason, because Denver did.

 

[4four4]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

UMD joined the Super League because recruiting guys like Connolly, Connolly & Fontaine leads to banners being raised in the rafters [Iron range kids mixed with Canadians].

The same motivation that drove DU, UND, CC, UNO & Miami. Recruiting.

UMD just signed Sandelin to fancy new extension. DU is about to pay Gwozdecky big, big dollars. There's no reason to pay these guys big dollars if you were going to remain in the WCHA without big time opponents [Minnesota, Wisconsin].

Almost certainly UMD will be playing a pretty steady diet of non-conference games against the Minnesota schools.

Do you think by leaving the WCHA DU will be scheduling Big Ten opponents? Fat chance. The big time recruits will continue to play for Big Ten regardless if DU left or stayed.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Do you think by leaving the WCHA DU will be scheduling Big Ten opponents? Fat chance. The big time recruits will continue to play for Big Ten regardless if DU left or stayed.

If Minnesota is landing so many "big time recruits," how come they've been so terrible lately?

http://letsgodu.blogspot.com/2010/10/dus-recruiting-class-named-1-by-inch.html

INCH Ranks DU's Recruiting Classes & Key Recruits

2010 - #1 - N. Shore, Bennett, Zucker, Brittain, Makowski [MN #5]

2009 - #2 - Shore, Donovan, Wrenn, Murray, S. Ostrow [MN #4]

2008 - #8 - Colborne, Lee, Wiercioch [MN #2]

2007 - #9 - Bozak, Martin, K. Ostrow, Cheverie [MN #10]

2006 - #4 - Rakhshani, Ruegsegger, Brookwell, Seabrook [MN #1]

2005 - #6 - Butler, Trotter, Mullen, Fast [MN #1] *** DU Wins National Championship ***

2004 - #8 - Stastny, Mannino, Dingle, Thomas, May, Paukovich [MN #3] *** DU Wins National Championship ***

 

[Almington]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

He missed the only actual reason, because Denver wanted it.

Fixed your post.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

If UMD could be convinced in the next two years it's in their best interest to remain with their D II brethren ...

Which brings me to a wildly speculative musing I'd posted on another forum:

UNO finally got Nebraska to allow them to go DI. What if (big IF) UMD is planning to make a similar move in Minnesota? ... Yes, Minnesota is broke and the government is shut down today. But it won't be that way forever. UMD in the hockey superconference opens up Minnesota recruiting. UMD and UND ... gives ... a decent toe-hold in the MSP media market (and it is all about media markets). Fox Sports North will need programming once everything Gopher is on the Big Ten Network.

I know it's wild speculation at this point, but who thought we'd be here right now?

I'd further speculate that if UMD did go DI the logical place would be to become UND's travel partner in the (DI - FCS) Big Sky Conference.