The end of leagues as we know?

[Hammy]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

I'm glad to see you're still ****ing on 60+ years of history. Good luck making a 12 team NCAA tournament.

The WCHA would have easily survived and done well after MN and UW left. It is a shame that some programs panicked in reaction to the BTHC and likely hurt programs like yours. I feel for you.

 

[4four4]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

From the BTHC money point a view Is there any incentive to play the BHHC 8 ? I would say no. If we look back at the history of the BT we will see a conference that wants to make a money off of their non conference games. IMO, means all the BT schools will decide not to play more than one series against the BHHC 8. The revenue generated from the nc is to great for them to play a tough nc schedule.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

The WCHA would have easily survived and done well after MN and UW left. It is a shame that some programs panicked in reaction to the BTHC and likely hurt programs like yours. I feel for you.

It is pretty lame and an overreaction no doubt...

 

[4four4]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

The WCHA would have easily survived and done well after MN and UW left. It is a shame that some programs panicked in reaction to the BTHC and likely hurt programs like yours. I feel for you.

+1

 

[Hammy]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Just because mom and dad can sit at home and watch the kid on the BTN doesn't translate into top recruits flooding every team in that conference.

Maybe not in the sense you are stating. But the money that the BTN provides to its members certainly won't hurt their cause when it comes to upgrading facilities, etc. All things that do play a healthy role in recruiting athletes. That isn't going to be equaled by any new conference no matter who makes up the components of it.

It's nice being on tv. On the other hand, no wants to be seen on tv playing goalie for a 4-20 team every week.

Which is the same problem teams in a new conference will face too. Maybe UND.

Also, if everyone is hitching the success of the BTHC to the BTN, I'd be careful with that. TV programming like we know it is going the way of the dinosaur. I already watch virtually every UND game just about anywhere I can get a computer connection. In my lifetime (and I'm probably a heck of a lot older than most others on this site) we're going to be walking around with our I pad type devices watching streaming content put out by each of our respective schools. There will be the Gopher network, the Badger network, etc...

Considering the BTN also broadcasts things online (as have the Gophers via their Gold Zone premium content), its not like these places are behind the times. I'd also mention much like TV ratings for different teams, not every team site is going to get equal traffic (and equal profits from it). What might be considered a success at a smaller school for traffic is going to be small potatoes for a Big Ten school.

 

[MavsFan]

This is neither here nor there, but I know for a fact that the administration felt their hands were tied. Jutting just came off of COTY honors and had his "big recruiting class" building up after a big run and they couldn't sign a one-year contract due to MNSCU bylaws. I'm not saying it was a good choice, but they would have had to pay almost double for Blais and we don't know for sure that he was interested in MSU. It's not exactly deciding to forgo a HOF coach for financial reasons. It was for the right reasons, but turned out to be a horribly wrong decision.

Everything you say is right except for the part about Blais. I have it from people who know that Blais WAS interested. And look what he's done at Omaha; Mankato used to slap them around like a red-headed stepchild, and suddenly they're an "elite program" being invited to join the breakaway "super conference."

The fact that Jutting got COY for a 4th place finish just tells me how low the expectations were. So now we're coming off an 11th place finish and the program is probably doomed.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

The WCHA would have easily survived and done well after MN and UW left. It is a shame that some programs panicked in reaction to the BTHC and likely hurt programs like yours. I feel for you.

They panicked alright. Last season's final Pairwise Rankings:

1). North Dakota

4). Minnesota-Duluth

6). Miami

7). Denver

10). Notre Dame

12). Nebraska-Omaha

13). Colorado College

14). Western Michigan

Throw in 17 National Championships. Plus all eight teams made the 2011 NCAA Tournament. Not too shabby.

 

[state of hockey]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

You know **** well what he meant. Last years final rankings have nothing to do with it. It is all about the $$$$.

 

[Hammy]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

You know **** well what he meant. Last years final rankings have nothing to do with it. It is all about the $$$$.

Maybe he's just that stupid? It certainly is a panic move. Those teams had success not because they had Big Ten teams in their league. They did it because they had good teams and already played in a good league. In the WCHA's case, a league that would still be very good quality hockey moving forward.

If it wasn't a panic move, they wouldn't be scrambling to make deals with each other while throwing other programs under the bus at the same time.

 

[Patman]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Maybe he's just that stupid? It certainly is a panic move. Those teams had success not because they had Big Ten teams in their league. They did it because they had good teams and already played in a good league. In the WCHA's case, a league that would still be very good quality hockey moving forward.

If it wasn't a panic move, they wouldn't be scrambling to make deals with each other while throwing other programs under the bus at the same time.

Is UND and DU great programs without the presence of Minnesota and Wisconsin. Let me the say the obvious. Probably not. Big12 fans can excuse make but of course the lesser known schools are leveraging their prominence off of the big boys. Yes, those schools leaving put the rest in a bind.

Right now these schools are trying to maintain their standing in the world... they were happy with the status quo... but they don't have that, do they?

 

[Bale]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Everything you say is right except for the part about Blais. I have it from people who know that Blais WAS interested. And look what he's done at Omaha; Mankato used to slap them around like a red-headed stepchild, and suddenly they're an "elite program" being invited to join the breakaway "super conference."

The fact that Jutting got COY for a 4th place finish just tells me how low the expectations were. So now we're coming off an 11th place finish and the program is probably doomed.

Fair enough, I had never heard that it was actually official that he was interested. I think the problem would still come in when they would have made him the highest paid employee of the university and doubled Jutting's salary. I don't know how well that would have been received. That being said, it could have been worked through. It would have passed over given enough time.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Is UND and DU great programs without the presence of Minnesota and Wisconsin. Let me the say the obvious. Probably not. Big12 fans can excuse make but of course the lesser known schools are leveraging their prominence off of the big boys. Yes, those schools leaving put the rest in a bind.

Right now these schools are trying to maintain their standing in the world... they were happy with the status quo... but they don't have that, do they?

But in reality it doesnt really improve their situation all that much. Financially speaking they aren't going to make more (this conference wont be playing at the X for their tourny that is for sure) and most likely their costs will rise. As we hear all the time from our DU friends the fans in that town dont exactly latch on to the Pios anyways while being in the WCHA all of a sudden Miami and Western are gonna bring in the bacon?

I dont know about the CCHA schools but the WCHA schools that are going in for this are cutting off their nose to spite their face. I hope they enjoy their conference tourny being at the Ralph every year because that will be their pinnacle. (no way the Pepsi Center will take them) That means less money to split despite some of the schools (UND and UMD) probably spending more on flights to Ohiogan.

 

[scsutommyboy]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

My guess is that they'll try and form an eight team league with travel containment being a leading prerequisite for membership.

An eight team league means 28 conference games and they will only have to find a few non-conference tilts.

If I were SCSU's AD and the Super League forms as mentioned today in USCHO, I'd call up Joel Maturi and say, "If we form a 6 team Minnesota-Michigan league; Will the Big Ten Schools agree to play us eight times a year [four home & four away]?

If Joel says, "The Big Ten can't do that."

Then they would be smart to form an eight team league.

If the super conference is formed the 8 non-alaska schools would most likely form a conference because I doubt they could afford to pay to fly to alaska for games. then the down fall of programs begin......

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

If the super conference is formed the 8 non-alaska schools would most likely form a conference because I doubt they could afford to pay to fly to alaska for games. then the down fall of programs begin......

TB ... you know better than that and so should everyone on this board. Both UAA and UAF have paid overwhelming majority (generally 20 airline tickets) for every conference team that comes to Alaska. Add to that the fact that those games allow every opponent to play two additional home games in their own rink that they wouldn't have otherwise played.

EVERY school in the CCHA and the WCHA made MORE MONEY with UAA and UAF in their conferences than they would have without. Both schools are revenue generators for every team associated with them in a conference.

If this Butt Hurt Hockey Conference were really about money they'd be talking to UAA and UAF.

 

[Squarebanks]

If the super conference is formed the 8 non-alaska schools would most likely form a conference because I doubt they could afford to pay to fly to alaska for games. then the down fall of programs begin......

CCHA and WCHA teams have enjoyed flights up there on our dime since the Alaska schools joined their respective conferences. That definitely won't be changing anytime soon.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

But in reality it doesnt really improve their situation all that much. Financially speaking they aren't going to make more (this conference wont be playing at the X for their tourny that is for sure) and most likely their costs will rise. As we hear all the time from our DU friends the fans in that town dont exactly latch on to the Pios anyways while being in the WCHA all of a sudden Miami and Western are gonna bring in the bacon?

I dont know about the CCHA schools but the WCHA schools that are going in for this are cutting off their nose to spite their face. I hope they enjoy their conference tourny being at the Ralph every year because that will be their pinnacle. (no way the Pepsi Center will take them) That means less money to split despite some of the schools (UND and UMD) probably spending more on flights to Ohiogan.

DU was at 90% capacity last season averaging 5,500 per game with the second highest ticket prices in the WCHA. That was 9th best in the NCAA.

DU also sells around 9,000 season tickets with a majority being Friday or Saturday night packages.

The problem for DU lately has been season ticket "No shows" against non-name brand opponents. No doubt season ticket sales, attendance and interest will go up with the new league.

However the real winners financially should be CC, WMU and especially UNO. I'd expect the other five schools to be close to 100% capacity for every game.

 

[scsutommyboy]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

TB ... you know better than that and so should everyone on this board. Both UAA and UAF have paid overwhelming majority (generally 20 airline tickets) for every conference team that comes to Alaska. Add to that the fact that those games allow every opponent to play two additional home games in their own rink that they wouldn't have otherwise played.

EVERY school in the CCHA and the WCHA made MORE MONEY with UAA and UAF in their conferences than they would have without.

If this Butt Hurt Hockey Conference were really about money they'd be talking to UAA and UAF.

Right now they make money because they draw well and make a lot of money on home games. If there is a new conference they won't make as much because they won't draw as well and other conference teams won't want to play them for pairwise reasons. So going to Alaska won't make sense unless the Alaska schools pay for some travel costs which they don't do any more in the WCHA.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

And BHHC alleged potential member Western Michigan's coach (i'm still laughing at their inclusion) looks like he might be on the road to Hockeytown for an assistant job with the Wings.

So there's that.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

So looking at this from a "Leftovers" perspective, this is really petty and really silly. Just seems to me that UND and DU are trying to keep up with Joneses and using Notre Dame for their ends. College Hockey is a terrible TV draw nationally. The NC game gets about the same ratings as an MLS game on ESPN, God knows what kind of attention this new Super 8 conference would get. Maybe a deal with FCS at best, with games still getting bumped for something like Davidson basketball. As for recruiting, players want to go where they can win, you look a whole better scoring 25 goals for an NCAA team then playing 3rd line for PSU or OSU sitting 5th/6th in the BTHC (or even worse playing for a 5th place DU/CC in the Super 8). I think it would be more useful to DU and UND to keep in the WCHA and keep winning and making the NCAA's to drive interest and recruiting then the likely possibility of not making the NCAA's regularly and keeping interest at a similar level or interest dropping off a bit.

As for the rest of us, Ferris, Bowling Green, and LSSU are probably crapping a brick, St. Cloud, Bemidji, and Mankato are likely the same, UAA, UAF, Northern, and Tech are probably plotting the next move as they are they ones likely to survive. Ferris and BG are the ones likely to left out in the cold, I don't see the Minnesota schools joining up with them. The Minnesota schools and UAA, UAF, Tech, and Northern will probably form up with possibly LSSU along with. But that is all conjecture and rumor on my part.

From a UAA perspective, all we need is a conference with an autobid to play in and we're fine.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Right now they make money because they draw well and make a lot of money on home games. If there is a new conference they won't make as much because they won't draw as well and other conference teams won't want to play them for pairwise reasons. So going to Alaska won't make sense unless the Alaska schools pay for some travel costs which they don't do any more in the WCHA.

UAA still pays for travel costs in the WCHA, we just happened to negotiate for a lesser amount, but yes we still pay.