The EC-Easy Conference strikes again...

[TimU]

Re: The EC-Easy Conference strikes again...

I don't have an axe to grind so take this for what it's worth. There is a lot of credence to what Got6 said. Today while driving in the car I had NHL Home Ice on the XM radio and they had quite a bit of hockey covage on the NCAA tournamanet and a lot of the guests on the show were asked and talked about the NCAA tournament. During one segment today the hockey "experts" who do this for a living were questioning Mike Schafer's tactics and style of play and while they didn't call it "clutch and grab" they did talk about it being such a defensive posture and plan that it made it difficult to win, particularly when they fall behind.

I'd just add that there is a difference between calling Cornell a "clutch-and-grab" team and saying they're built to win the clutch-and-grab ECAC. Our conference has good players and good skaters, but it doesn't have the offensive snipers that play in the WCHA. It does have good goaltending, and yes, it allows a lot of obstruction and interference to go on. All that adds up to a situation where a team that tries to open things up is vulnerable to getting burned. Cornell is a team full of big, talented guys with an exceptional goaltender, that basically wins games by strangulation. That is a recipe for success in the ECAC.

Ther was a play early in the Cornell/UNH game that gave me a little chuckle. Blake Kessel hip-checked a Cornell forward (Greening maybe?) into the boards just as the puck was chipped past him into the corner. But the offensive player never stopped skating, and then Kessel just kept him pinned to the boards for several seconds after the puck was gone. He was whistled for interference. That's the kind of thing that goes on CONSTANTLY in ECAC games. It never stops.

 

[Kenny L Parker]

Re: The EC-Easy Conference strikes again...

Thank you PWR's for letting Yale into the dance. That will be like a bye for UND!

Just like a bye!

As requested in my original post, I'm still waiting for your rationale as to why Yale should have been left out.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: The EC-Easy Conference strikes again...

Ther was a play early in the Cornell/UNH game that gave me a little chuckle. Blake Kessel hip-checked a Cornell forward (Greening maybe?) into the boards just as the puck was chipped past him into the corner. But the offensive player never stopped skating, and then Kessel just kept him pinned to the boards for several seconds after the puck was gone. He was whistled for interference. That's the kind of thing that goes on CONSTANTLY in ECAC games. It never stops.

At 11:42 of the 2nd in the SLU-Union Semi-Final, Bogo was held behind the net while short-handed by 2 Union players in a very similar play. Unlike the Cornell player, Bogo was completely hauled down. ECAC - No call. NCAA - Penalty!!

I think you nailed it Tim. The reality is that ECAC teams are more susceptable to that strangulation. A team like UNH has the goal scorers that they are going to get a couple of goals. Most ECAC teams (Yale being an exception) have maybe 1 or 2 lines that are a threat to score every time. It is a lot easier for the Boa to wrap around the neck in the ECAC because the skill is not as deep and pronounced, then incompetent officiating just lets it continue until the remaining ECAC teams are snake poop. Cornell is designed to win games 2-0 or 2-1. When you play a team that is easily scoring 3-4 a game and has speed and skill, like most NCAA teams, well, the results speak for themselves.

 

[pirate]

Re: The EC-Easy Conference strikes again...

Went to youtube for additional highlights of Yale game...only one set on there...comments at bottom--> WCHA rules every conference but eastern bias and refs get them every year.

yeah, that's it.

 

[SamluvstheBears]

Re: The EC-Easy Conference strikes again...

Just like a bye!

As requested in my original post, I'm still waiting for your rationale as to why Yale should have been left out.

I thought my rationale was clearly posted, but I tell you again since you requested Kenny P.

First let me say that I'm not a true believer in the PWR's. The reason is simple. They are a flawed mathmatical system that sometimes allows for simple luck as a reason a team makes the NCAA tourney. There are several cases that could be made about the luck issue and here is just one. Vermont made the NCAA tournament as a #8 team from Hockey East. They almost didn't make the Hockey East playoffs but they did have some nice wins early in the season over Denver and Minnesota-Duluth. Now the team I'm very fond of Maine, beat Michigan State and Colorado College as well as UVM twice and UNH twice and in normal college hockey years that would have been pretty good and worthy of an at-large bid into the dance. Plus Maine finished tied for 3rd in one of the best college hockey leagues which should also mean something but not under the PWR's. Maine was unlucky that Michigan State and CC tanked late in the year and veteran UVM team managed to beat Denver early in the season and the Pioneers finished 1st in the WCHA. Now if Denver had not been as successful and CC or MSU had finished stronger then Maine's OOC wins would have carried more weight. So Maine was unlucky that two normally solid college hockey powers didn't come through for them. Maine would have been better off to have Cornell beat CC back in December and then beat the Big Red instead of CC. See they thought that was big win over CC, but as it turns out a win against Cornell would have been better for them. The two losses to Union didn't help them but I think it's safe to say that the way Maine played in the Hockey East tourney was more of example of how good they could be and selection committee could have weighed that a possible reason to give them at-large consideration.

Now as for Yale getting in, under the current system it doesn't penalize a program for playing in a crappy league so long as you get a few solid OOC wins. I believe history tells us the ECACHL is the worst of the four major college hockey conferences. The numbers certainly are not in the ECACHL's favor. I think like the AHL that the ECACHL should only get one bid and that should be the automatic bid they get when they win their conference tournament. There for this year Cornell won the tourney title so under my tournament guidelines Yale would have been at home watching. I'm more of a believer that until a certain conference proves they can win consistantly in the NCAA's that they are not worthy of anymore then one bid. Hockey East, CCHA and WCHA have proven they deserve more teams in the tournament and I think this year each of those leagues should have gotten four teams each, but not under the current system. The PWR's or KRACH should be used only to help with tourney seedings and not picking teams. College hockey is now the only "MAJOR" college sport to not have a committee selecting teams based on many criteria including, "what have you done for me lately!"

Yale played very well yesterday for two periods and if they play like that today they will stay in the game with BC. Yale was fortunate to play a sleep walking/skating UND team yesterday who didn't wake up until the 3rd period. If BC plays well today it will be another wait until next year for the ECACHL to get back to the FF. In basketball how many Ivy league teams make the NCAA tourney? One would be the answer and Cornell made it to the sweet 16which was impressive. The Ivy league understands that academics and their tough standards will effect their athletic participation and they accept that fact, which they should. The ECACHL should be forced to accept the same fate as do all the other sports played in the Ivy League. One bid and one bid only, until you prove you deserve more then that.

 

[hockeyjunkie10]

Re: The EC-Easy Conference strikes again...

I thought my rationale was clearly posted, but I tell you again since you requested Kenny P.

First let me say that I'm not a true believer in the PWR's. The reason is simple. They are a flawed mathmatical system that sometimes allows for simple luck as a reason a team makes the NCAA tourney. There are several cases that could be made about the luck issue and here is just one. Vermont made the NCAA tournament as a #8 team from Hockey East. They almost didn't make the Hockey East playoffs but they did have some nice wins early in the season over Denver and Minnesota-Duluth. Now the team I'm very fond of Maine, beat Michigan State and Colorado College as well as UVM twice and UNH twice and in normal college hockey years that would have been pretty good and worthy of an at-large bid into the dance. Plus Maine finished tied for 3rd in one of the best college hockey leagues which should also mean something but not under the PWR's. Maine was unlucky that Michigan State and CC tanked late in the year and veteran UVM team managed to beat Denver early in the season and the Pioneers finished 1st in the WCHA. Now if Denver had not been as successful and CC or MSU had finished stronger then Maine's OOC wins would have carried more weight. So Maine was unlucky that two normally solid college hockey powers didn't come through for them. Maine would have been better off to have Cornell beat CC back in December and then beat the Big Red instead of CC. See they thought that was big win over CC, but as it turns out a win against Cornell would have been better for them. The two losses to Union didn't help them but I think it's safe to say that the way Maine played in the Hockey East tourney was more of example of how good they could be and selection committee could have weighed that a possible reason to give them at-large consideration.

Now as for Yale getting in, under the current system it doesn't penalize a program for playing in a crappy league so long as you get a few solid OOC wins. I believe history tells us the ECACHL is the worst of the four major college hockey conferences. The numbers certainly are not in the ECACHL's favor. I think like the AHL that the ECACHL should only get one bid and that should be the automatic bid they get when they win their conference tournament. There for this year Cornell won the tourney title so under my tournament guidelines Yale would have been at home watching. I'm more of a believer that until a certain conference proves they can win consistantly in the NCAA's that they are not worthy of anymore then one bid. Hockey East, CCHA and WCHA have proven they deserve more teams in the tournament and I think this year each of those leagues should have gotten four teams each, but not under the current system. The PWR's or KRACH should be used only to help with tourney seedings and not picking teams. College hockey is now the only "MAJOR" college sport to not have a committee selecting teams based on many criteria including, "what have you done for me lately!"

Yale played very well yesterday for two periods and if they play like that today they will stay in the game with BC. Yale was fortunate to play a sleep walking/skating UND team yesterday who didn't wake up until the 3rd period. If BC plays well today it will be another wait until next year for the ECACHL to get back to the FF. In basketball how many Ivy league teams make the NCAA tourney? One would be the answer and Cornell made it to the sweet 16which was impressive. The Ivy league understands that academics and their tough standards will effect their athletic participation and they accept that fact, which they should. The ECACHL should be forced to accept the same fate as do all the other sports played in the Ivy League. One bid and one bid only, until you prove you deserve more then that.

First of all, the "AHL" is a pretty good league. If they were a conference in college hockey they would get at least 10 at large bids every year. The AHA is also a pretty good league, as their Champion just beat the Regular Season Champion of the WCHA and throttled the Regular Season Champion of Hockey East. Last year, the AHA's Champion beat a CCHA team and outplayed a HE team, missing the Frozen Four by only a double OT goal. You said that you are "more of a believer that until a certain conference proves they can win consistantly in the NCAA's that they are not worthy of anymore then one bid." Maybe the Atlantic Hockey Association should have gotten a few more bids, by your rationale!

As for your main point, that Yale doesn't belong, that is about as foolish as your condemnation of the American Hockey League. You get in based on what you have done all year. Anyone who saw Yale play this year knows that from the top of their crease out, they may very well be the best team in College Hockey. Goaltending has been the Achilles' heel (perhaps heel comments aren't appropriate at this time in Eli-land) for Yale, and Allain's gutsy call to go back to Ryan Rondeau may have solved that issue (we will know more on this by 8pm tonight). Yale also just happened to beat NoDak without their best player. Sean Backman runs the top PP group, and is as dynamic as they come. If Backman was playing, and Yale had even above average goaltending, they might be the heavy favorite to win the whole **** thing.

You also said that OOC games in the beginning of the year shouldn't count as heavily. Well, boss, that is when OOC games are generally played as there are very little out of league games once league play starts.

The big four, or three by your designation, absolutely have the deepest leagues from top team to bottom team, but all of the teams in the top half of each conference can compete, and win games in this tournament. Though still a longshot, with 6 teams left in this tournament, an AHA-ECACHL championship is still in tact. Wouldn't that just shatter your world....

 

[SamluvstheBears]

Re: The EC-Easy Conference strikes again...

First of all, the "AHL" is a pretty good league. If they were a conference in college hockey they would get at least 10 at large bids every year. The AHA is also a pretty good league, as their Champion just beat the Regular Season Champion of the WCHA and throttled the Champion of Hockey East. Last year, the AHA's Champion beat a CCHA team and outplayed a HE team, missing the Frozen Four by only a double OT goal. You said that you are "more of a believer that until a certain conference proves they can win consistantly in the NCAA's that they are not worthy of anymore then one bid." Maybe the Atlantic Hockey Association should have gotten a few more bids, by your rationale!

As for your main point, that Yale doesn't belong, that is about as foolish as your condemnation of the American Hockey League. You get in based on what you have done all year. Anyone who saw Yale play this year knows that from the top of their crease out, they may very well be the best team in College Hockey. Goaltending has been the Achilles' heel (perhaps heel comments aren't appropriate at this time in Eli-land) for Yale, and Allain's gutsy call to go back to Ryan Rondeau may have solved that issue (we will know more on this by 8pm tonight). Yale also just happened to beat NoDak without their best player. Sean Backman runs the top PP group, and is as dynamic as they come. If Backman was playing, and Yale had even above average goaltending, they might be the heavy favorite to win the whole **** thing.

You also said that OOC games in the beginning of the year shouldn't count as heavily. Well, boss, that is when OOC games are generally played as there are very little out of league games once league play starts.

The big four, or three by your designation, absolutely have the deepest leagues from top team to bottom team, but all of the teams in the top half of each conference can compete, and win games in this tournament. Though still a longshot, with 6 teams left in this tournament, an AHA-ECACHL championship is still in tact. Wouldn't that just shatter your world....

Thank you Hockeyjunkie for correcting me. It's the AHA not AHL, again thanks for pointing out that error.

However, I stand by my original contention that the three power college hockey conferences deserve more teams and I stand by that. The fact that Bemidji State last year and RIT out "AHA" made the FF this season doesn't change the fact that the big three are still just that, the big three. As for a AHA/ECACHL title game that would be interesting and the TV ratings might be at an all time low for that game, THAT WON'T HAPPEN, THANKFULLY. BC will eliminate that possibility today!

 

[Onion Man]

Re: The EC-Easy Conference strikes again...

Anyone who saw Yale play this year knows that from the top of their crease out, they may very well be the best team in College Hockey.

Ummm, no.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: The EC-Easy Conference strikes again...

College hockey is now the only "MAJOR" college sport to not have a committee selecting teams based on many criteria including, "what have you done for me lately!"

QUOTE]

You are right. Maybe we should have never changed the philosophy and given Hockey East a sniff at the tourney. I mean, 85-90, RPI Champs, Harvard FF, 87 Harvard FF, 88 SLU Runner Ups, 90 Harvard Champs, 90 Colgate runner-ups. That pesky PWR opened the door for the weaker conference at the time

Seriously, if you wanted to pick on the auto-bid, you might have more to beef about with Alabama-Huntsville one and done, or RIT with No-NC wins in the regular season, or if you had picked on Bemidje State.

What system do you think College Basketball uses to pick their field??

If Maine got screwed, which they didn't, I think they should start by blaming the following teams first....Vermont, Niagara (for beating BSU and giving Alabama-Hunts an auto-bid, themselves for losing the autobid to BC, BSU for getting an at-large for tearing up an even weaker league, or other hockey east teams for not helping Maine more with their own PWR...see BC losing to 5th place ECACHL team) Instead you ***** about two legitimate teams, use inflammatory terms such as the EZAC (do you not have any good derogatory names for CHA or AHA??)).

Or we could go to Sam's rational which is based on emotion not rational thinking or science. Or maybe Maine should have just beat BC....at this time of year you have to be able to beat anyone in a single elimination situation. You didn't. So, that leaves us with good luck to the Black Bears next year.

 

[Section 22]

Re: The EC-Easy Conference strikes again...

wow this thread is ridiculous...wish i could have the last 10 min of my life back.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: The EC-Easy Conference strikes again...

Ummm, no.

Uhhhh, yeah. If Yale had a premier goaltender and without the Backman injury it would take an upset for them not to be a Frozen Four team, and who knows they still might be.

 

[jericho]

Re: The EC-Easy Conference strikes again...

I thought my rationale was clearly posted, but I tell you again since you requested Kenny P.

First let me say that I'm not a true believer in the PWR's. The reason is simple. They are a flawed mathmatical system that sometimes allows for simple luck as a reason a team makes the NCAA tourney. There are several cases that could be made about the luck issue and here is just one. Vermont made the NCAA tournament as a #8 team from Hockey East. They almost didn't make the Hockey East playoffs but they did have some nice wins early in the season over Denver and Minnesota-Duluth. Now the team I'm very fond of Maine, beat Michigan State and Colorado College as well as UVM twice and UNH twice and in normal college hockey years that would have been pretty good and worthy of an at-large bid into the dance. Plus Maine finished tied for 3rd in one of the best college hockey leagues which should also mean something but not under the PWR's. Maine was unlucky that Michigan State and CC tanked late in the year and veteran UVM team managed to beat Denver early in the season and the Pioneers finished 1st in the WCHA. Now if Denver had not been as successful and CC or MSU had finished stronger then Maine's OOC wins would have carried more weight. So Maine was unlucky that two normally solid college hockey powers didn't come through for them. Maine would have been better off to have Cornell beat CC back in December and then beat the Big Red instead of CC. See they thought that was big win over CC, but as it turns out a win against Cornell would have been better for them. The two losses to Union didn't help them but I think it's safe to say that the way Maine played in the Hockey East tourney was more of example of how good they could be and selection committee could have weighed that a possible reason to give them at-large consideration.

Now as for Yale getting in, under the current system it doesn't penalize a program for playing in a crappy league so long as you get a few solid OOC wins. I believe history tells us the ECACHL is the worst of the four major college hockey conferences. The numbers certainly are not in the ECACHL's favor. I think like the AHL that the ECACHL should only get one bid and that should be the automatic bid they get when they win their conference tournament. There for this year Cornell won the tourney title so under my tournament guidelines Yale would have been at home watching. I'm more of a believer that until a certain conference proves they can win consistantly in the NCAA's that they are not worthy of anymore then one bid. Hockey East, CCHA and WCHA have proven they deserve more teams in the tournament and I think this year each of those leagues should have gotten four teams each, but not under the current system. The PWR's or KRACH should be used only to help with tourney seedings and not picking teams. College hockey is now the only "MAJOR" college sport to not have a committee selecting teams based on many criteria including, "what have you done for me lately!"

Yale played very well yesterday for two periods and if they play like that today they will stay in the game with BC. Yale was fortunate to play a sleep walking/skating UND team yesterday who didn't wake up until the 3rd period. If BC plays well today it will be another wait until next year for the ECACHL to get back to the FF. In basketball how many Ivy league teams make the NCAA tourney? One would be the answer and Cornell made it to the sweet 16which was impressive. The Ivy league understands that academics and their tough standards will effect their athletic participation and they accept that fact, which they should. The ECACHL should be forced to accept the same fate as do all the other sports played in the Ivy League. One bid and one bid only, until you prove you deserve more then that.

So you're saying that the ECAC only deserves one bid because their student-athletes actually do their work? That makes sense.

 

[Onion Man]

Re: The EC-Easy Conference strikes again...

Uhhhh, yeah. If Yale had a premier goaltender and without the Backman injury it would take an upset for them not to be a Frozen Four team, and who knows they still might be.

Child, please.

You honestly think that the only difference between Yale and being "the best team in college hockey" is a goaltender? You know, when I saw Brown shut them out last week, all I was thinking was, "****, this Yale team is just one goalie away from being better than Miami, BC or Wisconsin."

 

[jmh]

Re: The EC-Easy Conference strikes again...

wow this thread is ridiculous...wish i could have the last 10 min of my life back.

This.

 

[hockeyjunkie10]

Re: The EC-Easy Conference strikes again...

Child, please.

You honestly think that the only difference between Yale and being "the best team in college hockey" is a goaltender? You know, when I saw Brown shut them out last week, all I was thinking was, "****, this Yale team is just one goalie away from being better than Miami, BC or Wisconsin."

From that standpoint, having seen them only play Brown in the ECACHL playoffs, I can see where you would be skeptical. The fact of the matter is Yale deserved a few weeks to figure out how things would sort themselves out without Backman. I know one player doesn't make a team, but when that one player brings as many intangibles to the table as Backman, and quarterback's your 2nd in the nation PP, it is difficult to move forward. Yale was a top-5 team all year with a revolving door of goaltenders with none possessing (until a couple weeks ago) a save percentage over 90%. So I will repeat, if Yale had Backman and a top flight netminder, they would be the favorite. With Backman and a top goalie, the would be better than Miami, BC and Wisconsin. Don't believe me? Yale tied Wisco AT Wisconsin (technically lost in a shootout b/c it was a tournament) and outshot them 42-22, including 21-5 in the 3rd period and OT.

 

[Onion Man]

Re: The EC-Easy Conference strikes again...

So I will repeat, if Yale had Backman and a top flight netminder, they would be the favorite.

Maybe the dumbest thing ever said. Congratulations, that's saying something. I bet there are a lot of teams that would be pretty good if they also had a top scorer and a top flight netminder.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: The EC-Easy Conference strikes again...

The ECACHL should be forced to accept the same fate as do all the other sports played in the Ivy League. One bid and one bid only, until you prove you deserve more then that.

Have you ever heard of Lacrosse? Or Crew?

 

[Saints#1]

Re: The EC-Easy Conference strikes again...

Maybe the dumbest thing ever said. Congratulations, that's saying something. I bet there are a lot of teams that would be pretty good if they also had a top scorer and a top flight netminder.

No I'm pretty sure the dumbest thing being said here is you calling Got6 a child when according to profiles he is 42 and you're 29

 

[hockeyjunkie10]

Re: The EC-Easy Conference strikes again...

Maybe the dumbest thing ever said. Congratulations, that's saying something. I bet there are a lot of teams that would be pretty good if they also had a top scorer and a top flight netminder.

I gave you a pass because I understood the narrow scope from which you see the game having based your comments solely from your watching of the Brown-Yale series in the ECACHL playoffs. You're lack of knowledge, masked by some aggressive language and average wit, is rather disheartening.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: The EC-Easy Conference strikes again...

Child, please.

You honestly think that the only difference between Yale and being "the best team in college hockey" is a goaltender? You know, when I saw Brown shut them out last week, all I was thinking was, "****, this Yale team is just one goalie away from being better than Miami, BC or Wisconsin."

So 200 posts and every single one proves you are either just trying to flame, you are clueless or both.

Yale played you five times this year and outshot you by 8, 18, 23 in the playoffs and 20 and 25 in the RS against a trapping, defensive minded team. Your upsets in the league playoffs proves a) upsets happen and, b) there is parity in college hockey. The fact Yale skated circles around most of their oponents this year proves Yale is a pretty good team and offensively one of the best...if you want to dispute that try using something more credible or factual!