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The College Hockey Championship Belt Part III

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Re: The College Hockey Championship Belt Part III

Shirtless Guy said:
We could have a d2 and d3 belt :p it's just a matter of doing the research.
Click to expand...
Say that I wanted to start researching a D3 Play-up Belt. Would it be fair to say that games involving teams from the west (CC) before the 1951-2 season (when the MCHL was founded) don't count as play-up games? Similarly, would it be fair to use the start of the 1964-5 season (when the ECAC split into two divisions) as the point in time when games involving teams from the east (CCT, SLU, Union, RPI) started counting as play-up games? Those are the seasons when the division between D-I and D-II/III really emerged.

Alternatively, I could start the research in 1904 with the first Union-RPI game and work forward, but that brings up the question of "What constitutes a 'play-up' game if there are no separate divisions?"
 
Re: The College Hockey Championship Belt Part III

burgie12 said:
Say that I wanted to start researching a D3 Play-up Belt. Would it be fair to say that games involving teams from the west (CC) before the 1951-2 season (when the MCHL was founded) don't count as play-up games? Similarly, would it be fair to use the start of the 1964-5 season (when the ECAC split into two divisions) as the point in time when games involving teams from the east (CCT, SLU, Union, RPI) started counting as play-up games? Those are the seasons when the division between D-I and D-II/III really emerged.

Alternatively, I could start the research in 1904 with the first Union-RPI game and work forward, but that brings up the question of "What constitutes a 'play-up' game if there are no separate divisions?"
Click to expand...

We should start with the teams that currently are D-III schools. Once they either completely drop hockey, go to D-III hockey, or move their entire program up to D-II or higher (perhaps some research into that happening is warranted; you must move down and then back up, though), they are dropped from contention, but should they leave with possession of the belt, we create a new belt similar to what happens when a folding team leaves hockey with a state belt.
 
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Re: The College Hockey Championship Belt Part III

FlagDUDE08 said:
We should start with the teams that currently are D-III schools. Once they either completely drop hockey, go to D-III hockey, or move their entire program up to D-II or higher, they are dropped from contention, but should they leave with possession of the belt, we create a new belt similar to what happens when a folding team leaves hockey with a state belt.
Click to expand...
But that doesn't answer the question about how to treat Colby, Williams, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Norwich, and Amherst (Eastern teams that were around in the 50s / 60s, but went to D2 / D3 when the ECAC split). Were they eligible for the belt? Or were those games not considered games between play-up teams because there weren't separate divisions, hence no play-up teams?

ETA: Obviously, you can tell where I stand on this issue.
 
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Re: The College Hockey Championship Belt Part III

burgie12 said:
But that doesn't answer the question about how to treat Colby, Williams, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Norwich, and Amherst (Eastern teams that were around in the 50s / 60s, but went to D2 / D3 when the ECAC split). Were they eligible for the belt? Or were those games not considered games between play-up teams because there weren't separate divisions, hence no play-up teams?

ETA: Obviously, you can tell where I stand on this issue.
Click to expand...

I think this may be the first time that we'd have to bring the considerations of non-hockey NCAA sports into consideration. Not to completely dodge your question, but perhaps another one should be asked: When did the ECAC Belt start? If it started at the formation of the league (and does not include any tri-state competition or anything similar), then I would think we should start at the point that the divisions are created.
 
Re: The College Hockey Championship Belt Part III

FlagDUDE08 said:
When did the ECAC Belt start? If it started at the formation of the league (and does not include any tri-state competition or anything similar)
Click to expand...
The ECAC Belt started with the first ECAC games (fall 1961). I forget who did the research on this belt and established the start date (it was likely Sean Pickett).
 
Re: The College Hockey Championship Belt Part III

FlagDUDE08 said:
I think this may be the first time that we'd have to bring the considerations of non-hockey NCAA sports into consideration. Not to completely dodge your question, but perhaps another one should be asked: When did the ECAC Belt start? If it started at the formation of the league (and does not include any tri-state competition or anything similar), then I would think we should start at the point that the divisions are created.
Click to expand...
Agreed. There were no playups until Divisions started.
 
Re: The College Hockey Championship Belt Part III

FlagDUDE08 said:
OK, I'll ask the next question: Are RPI, CCT, SLU, and CC the only eligible ones at the start? What would constitute a "play-up"?
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I don't think so. MTU has always been a western playup. UND was a playup most of the time, and for some periods Denver was also. I think that all were at the start but it will take research. :p

Edit: I don't recall when divisions started but there may be others, e.g. UMD.
 
Re: The College Hockey Championship Belt Part III

Ralph Baer said:
I don't think so. MTU has always been a western playup. UND was a playup most of the time, and for some periods Denver was also. I think that all were at the start but it will take research. :p

Edit: I don't recall when divisions started but there may be others, e.g. UMD.
Click to expand...

Also, what divisions are we using in the consideration of "play-up"? I believe burgie12 only wanted to consider D-III.
 
Re: The College Hockey Championship Belt Part III

FlagDUDE08 said:
Also, what divisions are we using in the consideration of "play-up"? I believe burgie12 only wanted to consider D-III.
Click to expand...
If that is the case, then AFAIK you are correct, and I misinterpreted burgie's original post.
 
Re: The College Hockey Championship Belt Part III

D-III Playup belt:
Code: 
12/05/1964 Clarkson defeated Rensselaer

01/10/1967 St. Lawrence
or
02/28/1967 St. Lawrence*

01/09/1968 Clarkson**

02/14/1969 Rensselaer
02/13/1970 Clarkson
11/27/1971 St. Lawrence
02/12/1972 Rensselaer
11/24/1972 Clarkson
11/25/1972 St. Lawrence
12/20/1972 Clarkson
01/23/1973 St. Lawrence
02/21/1973 Clarkson
12/01/1973 Rensselaer
02/08/1974 Clarkson
02/20/1974 St. Lawrence
11/30/1974 Clarkson
02/07/1975 Rensselaer
02/08/1975 St. Lawrence
02/19/1975 Clarkson
12/06/1975 Rensselaer
02/07/1976 St. Lawrence
02/21/1976 Rensselaer
12/04/1976 Clarkson
12/28/1976 Rensselaer
02/04/1977 Clarkson
12/10/1977 Rensselaer
12/09/1978 Clarkson
03/03/1982 St. Lawrence
11/13/1982 Clarkson
03/05/1983 St. Lawrence
11/26/1983 Rensselaer
02/24/1984 Clarkson
03/09/1984 Rensselaer
11/16/1984 St. Lawrence
12/12/1984 Clarkson
02/01/1985 Rensselaer
02/01/1986 St. Lawrence
12/10/1986 Clarkson
12/09/1987 St. Lawrence
01/17/1989 Clarkson
11/28/1989 St. Lawrence
01/20/1990 Clarkson
11/27/1990 St. Lawrence
01/19/1991 Clarkson
12/13/1991 St. Lawrence
02/15/1992 Rensselaer
03/13/1992 St. Lawrence
12/04/1992 Rensselaer
02/19/1993 Clarkson
11/12/1993 Rensselaer
11/13/1993 St. Lawrence
12/04/1993 Clarkson
02/05/1994 Rensselaer
01/13/1995 Union
02/03/1995 Clarkson
01/27/1996 St. Lawrence
11/16/1996 Clarkson
11/23/1996 Union
01/18/1997 Rensselaer
02/08/1997 Clarkson
03/22/1997 Colorado College

*St. Lawrence and Clarkson played three times in the 1966-7 season. Clarkson won the first game 5-2. Clarkson claims to have lost the second game 4-6 and tied the third 4-4 while St. Lawrence claims to have tied the second game and won the third. No matter what, St. Lawrence holds the D3 Play-up Belt at the end of the 1967 season.

**Both Clarkson and St. Lawrence claim to have lost the 2/27/68 game in Canton, 8-5. Based on Clarkson's reported 11-5 ECAC record and St. Lawrence's reported 7-6-1 record at Appleton that season, I believe that Clarkson won and keeps the D3 Play-up Belt.  However, this contradicts Clarkson's reported 16-7-1 overall record.  If St. Lawrence won, then the belt follows the following path:
01/09/1968 Clarkson
02/27/1968 St. Lawrence
01/14/1969 Clarkson (rejoins main path)
Next Defense: 10/12/2012 vs Clarkson

CC has not lost a game against a fellow D-III play-up yet and has a fantastic 23-0-5 record in those games. They defeated Clarkson on December 29, 1973 and would have been holding the belt for more than 14,000 CONSECUTIVE days right now if the Knights hadn't lost it to RPI on that December 1st. (Yes, that would have included more than two decades without a defense and 25.5 years without a win over a fellow D-III school eligible for the D-I championship, but still!)

Clarkson lost to RIT on December 27, 1986 (one of multiple instances in which the belt holder lost while playing a D-III school). However, RIT was not eligible for the D-I Championship; therefore the belt was not up for a defense in said game.
 
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Re: The College Hockey Championship Belt Part III

Sorry for the triple post...

Here's the list of teams that I have as D2 Play-ups:

Alabama-Huntsville
Alaska
Alaska Anchorage
American International
Bemidji State
Bentley
Denver (1979-1998)
Ferris State
Findlay
Lake Superior
UMass Lowell
Mercyhurst
Merrimack
Michigan Tech
Minnesota Duluth
Minnesota State
Nebraska Omaha (1997-2012)
North Dakota (1951-2008)
Northern Michigan
St. Cloud State
Wayne State

Have I missed any? Any opposition to those that I've included? Help from more knowledgeable people is appreciated.

Super late edit:
For completeness, here is the list of D3 Play-ups:
Clarkson
Colorado College
Rensselaer
RIT
St. Lawrence
Union
 
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Re: The College Hockey Championship Belt Part III

burgie12 said:
Sorry for the triple post...

Here's the list of teams that I have as D2 Play-ups:

Alabama-Huntsville
Alaska
Alaska Anchorage
Bemidji State
Ferris State
Findlay
Lake Superior
UMass Lowell
Mercyhurst
Merrimack
Michigan Tech
Minnesota Duluth
Minnesota State
Nebraska Omaha
North Dakota
Northern Michigan
St. Cloud State
Wayne State

North Dakota has transitioned up to D1, but will be considered as a D2 Play-up from 1951 to 2008.

Have I missed any? Any opposition to those that I've included? Help from more knowledgeable people is appreciated.
Click to expand...

Add AIC and Bentley. Also Denver was D-II until a few years ago. They also were earlier D-I before dropping to D-II IIRC. QU may have been D-II when they started (not sure).
 
Re: The College Hockey Championship Belt Part III

Ralph Baer said:
Add AIC and Bentley. Also Denver was D-II until a few years ago. They also were earlier D-I before dropping to D-II IIRC. QU may have been D-II when they started (not sure).
Click to expand...
I missed AIC and Bentley because I had only included Colorado College's opponents (I thought that the D-III play-up belt would start with them, so that's where I started my list and I forgot to expand it).

I will include Denver from 1979 to 1998 (when I did preliminary research on the Pios I saw that they were D-I and had been for a while, so I didn't research as far back as I should have).

Quinnipiac's hockey team moving to D-I status corresponded with the rest of the athletic department moving to D-I, so they are not eligible for the play-up belt.
 
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Re: The College Hockey Championship Belt Part III

burgie12 said:
Here's the list of teams that I have as D2 Play-ups:
Click to expand...
I was able to find the media guides (or they've only played as a D-I team since ~1998, so I could find all of their scores through USCHO / Collegehockeystats) for two-thirds of the teams.

I still need help finding information for the following teams:
Alabama-Huntsville
Alaska
Findlay (I'm not too worried)
<s>Lake Superior</s>
<s>UMass Lowell</s>
<s>Michigan Tech (this upsets me the most)</s>
Wayne State (again, not too worried)

I'm going to try and find the individual threads for the five current teams and ask there, but I figured I'd post a plea for help here, too.

Please let me know if you know of anywhere where I can find game-by-game results for said school for as long as they've played a D-I schedule.

Also, let me know if there are schools that had a D-I hockey program while their institution was considered D-II that I have failed to include in the list.
 
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Re: The College Hockey Championship Belt Part III

I can email you tech's yearbook, not sure where you could find it on their website, they just changed it today actually.
 
Re: The College Hockey Championship Belt Part III

burgie12 said:
I was able to find the media guides (or they've only played as a D-I team since ~1998, so I could find all of their scores through USCHO / Collegehockeystats) for two-thirds of the teams.

I still need help finding information for the following teams:
Alabama-Huntsville
Alaska
Findlay (I'm not too worried)
Lake Superior
UMass Lowell
<s>Michigan Tech (this upsets me the most)</s>
Wayne State (again, not too worried)

I'm going to try and find the individual threads for the five current teams and ask there, but I figured I'd post a plea for help here, too.

Please let me know if you know of anywhere where I can find game-by-game results for said school for as long as they've played a D-I schedule.

Also, let me know if there are schools that had a D-I hockey program while their institution was considered D-II that I have failed to include in the list.
Click to expand...

Lowell's program went to D-1 for the 1983-84 season. This year's media guide doesn't contain all of the historical info, but last year's does. You can find it here: http://issuu.com/umasslowellathletics/docs/mih_media_guide_10-11
 
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