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The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

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Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

Kepler said:
I've heard Civ described as "A highly complex game of nuanced decision-making and subtle strategy until somebody gets armor." :)
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Ha! Yeah, pretty much a race to armor, then build ****loads of armor. Don't bother with any artillery, it isn't that much better offensively but weak as hell defensively.
 
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

French Rage said:
Ha! Yeah, pretty much a race to armor, then build ****loads of armor. Don't bother with any artillery, it isn't that much better offensively but weak as hell defensively.
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Once you get bombers there's no point in arty. Civ needs a MUCH stronger AA unit. Even if it was expensive it would be worth it.

It also needs a different model for interception. You can have a bazillion fighters but enemy bombers only take damage from one, like a martial arts fight where all the bad guys politely line up and never attack en masse. I'd like to see an Air Superiority Modifier, where bomber damage to ground targets is multiplied by the ratio of your fighter strength to the enemy within a zone around the point of attack. Minor nation worried about attack from an aggressive neighbor? That's OK, have a defensive alliance with a great power to drive down his ASM and make his bombers useless.
 
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

Kepler said:
Once you get bombers there's no point in arty. Civ needs a MUCH stronger AA unit. Even if it was expensive it would be worth it.

It also needs a different model for interception. You can have a bazillion fighters but enemy bombers only take damage from one, like a martial arts fight where all the bad guys politely line up and never attack en masse. I'd like to see an Air Superiority Modifier, where bomber damage to ground targets is multiplied by the ratio of your fighter strength to the enemy within a zone around the point of attack. Minor nation worried about attack from an aggressive neighbor? That's OK, have a defensive alliance with a great power to drive down his ASM and make his bombers useless.
Click to expand...

My experience in BTS is different on both points.
1. Bombers are great when they don't have fighters or SAM units (i.e. a small tech window if you're even, or overwhelming tech superiority in your favor). Otherwise, it takes a *lot* of bombers to match up to what arty can do.
2. Air superiority is critical to protecting your troops, cities, and resources. Sure, bomber interception isn't as effective as you might like at destroying bomber units (although that makes some sense if you think of them as a group of 20+ bombers), but the more fighters you have, the less likely it is that they'll actually get a bomber through on target.

SODs can be fun to try to beat if you're somewhat ready for them. The key is that once they have enough bombardment units to overwhelm your defenders, the best defense is a good offense (even though that means that you're always taking the least optimal one-on-one fight).
 
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

Craig P. said:
My experience in BTS is different on both points.
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Yes, IV is different. I was speaking about V.

In IV you can create an enormous stack of any siege unit, throw in some defensive units for transit and some aggressive melee to clean up the debris of the city defenders. I like to use a good mix of collateral damage and deeper damage siege. As long as you can patrol the route to your target and pick off any stacks coming to hurt you (including the inevitable barbarian mounted stack that spawns at exactly the wrong moment right on your flank), you can win by pure attrition. After a while this got boring to me.

In V, without stacks, arty becomes comparatively weak* in the middle game. V siege units of range 2 (catapult, trebuchet, cannon) also have line-of-sight limits -- you can't shoot over interposed higher terrain. (I love this, since again it complicates attacks). Combined arms attacks can become very tricky depending on terrain. I really enjoy the combat part of V, and since combat is always the least interesting part of the game for me, that helps give me a "least worst."

* the Hunic UU battering ram is the shizzle in the opening, though. I had never employed one because their defense is hot garbage and they are non-attacking except for city walls. I finally built a couple and was going to use them in combination with trebuchet. The treb unit, whose base D is stronger, was good for about 25 damage. Then I used the ram. 147 damage. Uh, excuse me? There's also a UU siege tower for somebody (Assyria, maybe?) which basically works like a GG except it exclusively amps siege damage, but it's not nearly as fun. Cool looking, however. Kind of an ancient era Dalek.
 
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burd said:
What is your most compelling verifiable example of progressivism's "enforced conformity of allowable beliefs?"
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Same sex marriage
abortion
God / religion in the public square
guns
Conservative speaker at a liberal college
heck - a conservative at a liberal college
 
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

joecct said:
Same sex marriage
abortion
God / religion in the public square
guns
Conservative speaker at a liberal college
heck - a conservative at a liberal college
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You forgot to argue for the "enforced conformity" of all of these issues. A large minority/majority of Americans as well as politicians fall on the opposite side of the "progressive" viewpoint on all of these issues. These are allowed beliefs and conformity is not "enforced." Be careful not to confuse scrutiny, criticism, and disrespect of opinions for forceful conformity.
 
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

joecct said:
Same sex marriage
abortion
God / religion in the public square
guns
Conservative speaker at a liberal college
heck - a conservative at a liberal college
Click to expand...

That's about as close to a non answer as you could give, Joe. Much like if I were asked to give examples of ways in which conservatives have trampled upon liberal viewpoints and I simply said "war." Useless response.
 
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

joecct said:
Same sex marriage
abortion
God / religion in the public square
guns
Conservative speaker at a liberal college
heck - a conservative at a liberal college
Click to expand...
It's not enforced conformity because they're right and you're wrong, so they can treat you however they like and it's justifiable.
 
burd said:
That's about as close to a non answer as you could give, Joe. Much like if I were asked to give examples of ways in which conservatives have trampled upon liberal viewpoints and I simply said "war." Useless response.
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Remember, the poster wanted examples of progressives, not conservatives.

But, if it makes you feel better, try this example:
SILENCE! I'm right and you're wrong, you racist homophobic gun loving fascist!
 
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

joecct said:
Remember, the poster wanted examples of progressives, not conservatives.

But, if it makes you feel better, try this example:
SILENCE! I'm right and you're wrong, you racist homophobic gun loving fascist!
Click to expand...
The most obvious example was the folks in California who were fired after voting for the constitutional amendment in favor of traditional marriage. I recall reading articles in particular about someone who worked in theater in California and was very accomplished, but was "outed" as having voted in favor of the proposition and was fired for doing so. The liberals even had websites where they publicized who they could find out voted for the proposition for the purpose of harassing those people. And of course they were right and good for doing so, because they were right and the other people were (fill in the blank with the ugly stereotype of your choice).
 
joecct said:
Remember, the poster wanted examples of progressives, not conservatives.

But, if it makes you feel better, try this example:
SILENCE! I'm right and you're wrong, you racist homophobic gun loving fascist!
Click to expand...

Yes, they've been so trampled that guns are now more widely available than ever, abortion is becoming ever more restricted, no one is being forced to gay marry their turtle, and plenty of conservatives go to numerous universities and even teach there. And the fact we're having this discussion seems to show religion is allowed in the public sphere.

Not seeing the oppression.
 
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

unofan said:
Yes, they've been so trampled that guns are now more widely available than ever, abortion is becoming ever more restricted, no one is being forced to gay marry their turtle, and plenty of conservatives go to numerous universities and even teach there. And the fact we're having this discussion seems to show religion is allowed in the public sphere.

Not seeing the oppression.
Click to expand...

People who are used to having it 100% of their way think a reduction to 99% means they're being persecuted. :rolleyes:

The idea that Christians are being marginalized in this country is as hilariously wrong as the idea that the rich are victimized.
 
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Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

FlagDUDE08 said:
Someone's never been to Dearborn MI and their Sharia law.
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I can't tell if you're trolling or just extremely paranoid on this one. IF Sharia law were ever to be passed by a city in any state, all it would take is for one person to say something to the state courts or legislature - since the vast majority of people in the state would not abide - and that city council's vote would be struck down before the federal court even got a whiff of it to do the very same thing in addition to wiggling its wang at them just for gits and shiggles.
 
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