Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Reading comprehension isn't a strong suit of yours, is it?
Or is this another of your clever "hook, line, sinker" thingies??
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The Barr Has Been Raised at UMaine
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Reading comprehension isn't a strong suit of yours, is it?
Or is this another of your clever "hook, line, sinker" thingies??
NorthMike
Well-known member
When does the contract with cross center end?
Might affect bball facility schedule.
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
I think it's great you're willing to wait 5 seasons, I just hope others are as patient. Here is a chart showing the cumulative winning percentage of 9 current and former coaches; 6 considered very successful, and 3 considered successful so far. As can be seen all but one had a record below 0.400 after one season, but after the fifth season 7 had records above 0.500 and 2 had records over 0.600:
I didn't identify the coaches by name as it's summer and I thought it might be fun to see if anyone can identify them. In no particular order the 9 coaches are:
Red Berenson
Jerry York
Eric Lang
Rand Pecknold
Shawn Walsh
Scott Sandelin
Greg Carvel
Ron Mason
Nate Leaman
As for Drew S.'s previous statement about needing to know where the program had been when a coach took over here is where they were:
Red Berenson: Michigan - two decades of mediocrity, with only one league and one NCAA runners-up eight seasons earlier, two consecutive losing seasons below 0.400
Jerry York: BC - three consecutive losing seasons and a mess with scholarships
Eric Lang: AIC - 22 consecutive losing seasons
Rand Pecknold: Quinnipiac - 13 of 19 losing seasons, 5 consecutive losing seasons
Shawn Walsh: Maine - a young program with three consecutive losing seasons
Scott Sandelin: UMD - 14 seasons of mediocrity, with only one regular season and one FF appearance eight seasons earlier, two consecutive losing seasons
Greg Carvel: UMass - 18 losing seasons out of 22, ten consecutive seasons at or below 0.500
Ron Mason: MSU - 30 seasons of mediocrity, 13 seasons removed from a surprise NCAA title and 12 seasons removed from a surprise return to the FF, three consecutive losing seasons
Nate Leaman: PC - 15 seasons of mediocrity, 11 seasons removed from a league runners-up and NCAA appearance, five consecutive losing seasons
So, yes, you will need to be patient, ,but if Coach Barr is the right coach for Maine he should have the program headed solidly in the right direction after five seasons.
No way any of us will (or could) compile the data to guess who is whom... But, who is Mr. Lavender, and who is Mr. Green?
(I'd guess that Mr. Green is Walshie.)
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Walsh is the light blue I think.
I think that’s Carvel. They had a really rough first season.
Sean Pickett
2009 NCAA Champions
Yes, Coach Light Blue is Greg Carvel. Coach Lavender (assuming you mean the one with the best winning percentages) is Nate Leaman and Coach Green is Rand Pecknold.
Blackbear96
Active member
Any rumblings on Barr's assistant(s)? Website still lists Alfie and Guite, I can't imagine both are back this year. If both are, I'd imagine that allows Barr a full season to put together a priority list for next year - similar to NFL Coaches if a preferred assistant isn't available.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Anything is possible, I suppose ... but it's hard to believe that a guy as obviously well-prepared as Barr would not have both a Priority List AND a Plan B list in place as he entered the offseason, knowing that (as in the past) he would likely be exploring head coaching opportunities. Staffing at this level is hardly an afterthought, and I can't even imagine that the issue would not have come up during his discussions with AD Ralph. That's all fair game as part of the evaluation process, and I would think any candidate coming into a program from outside would not be probed in depth on this topic. If you're an incumbent (Guite) that discussion is a little briefer and more forgiving (i.e. "Will you keep Alfie and/or other staff?" and "Do you have any idea who you'd hire to replace yourself?") ... but for an outsider to come in and not have a staffing plan? That's a huge red flag. So my guess is, he's got his plan, he's finalizing the hires, the school will want to work through all due diligence formalities, and sometime in June there will be a press release announcing Barr's staff.
And his staff won't include Guite, no matter what. Barr won't want his predecessor on his staff, and Guite will want to get on with the rest of his career, burning a lame duck year as an AC in Orono behind a guy with a long contract isn't the realistic way forward for him, either. Not to mention, UMaine would likely have to pay Guite more than his incoming AC replacement.
I actually checked the Maine jobs website this morning before you posted and didn’t see anything. Would Maine have to post the job? I did read a quote from one of the players that Guite would land on his feet which would lead me to believe he wasn’t coming back but maybe that quote was missing some context.
I think one of the smartest things Barr has said is that there is no playbook for this situation. In an ideal world a new coach would have his own staff in place soon after being hired but between Red’s passing, the budget situation due to Covid, and Barr’s personal situation with having two new arrivals there’s a lot going on.
Ralph has said there is no extra money right now but maybe if Barr waits a year he would have some extra money to hire the assistants he wants. I’d prefer we get the right people even if we have to wait a year. After being on the job for a bit maybe Barr has a better idea who/what he needs so there could be a benefit there as well.
If Ben and Alfie are the assistants next year I’m sure they will do everything they can to help the program be successful. They want to see Maine win and it does their careers no good not to work hard.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
This chronic pining for the continuation of Guite behind the UMaine bench is getting absurd ...
Nope, there's no "missing context" there. Pretty much everyone understands that when you hire an outside guy over an internal candidate, the internal candidate is not going to be in the new guy's plans (and vice versa). So Guite tells his players he didn't get the job, and his players are sure he'll "land on his feet" (as in, somewhere else), it's really not that complicated. To dumb this down to an apparently appropriate level ... when Biden beat Trump last November, was Biden obligated to offer Trump a spot in his cabinet?
Sure, "there is no playbook" for the last year-plus of the Wuhan Flu, and yes it's incredibly sad that Red passed away when he did, but stepping away for a moment from the emotions of the latter ... UMaine had to fill a coaching vacancy early in the offseason. Whether Red passed or was relieved of his duties was irrelevant in making this an unusual scenario. Now, had Red passed in midseason OR at the start of the season (like Walshy in 2001), THAT would have been much more difficult.
Otherwise, if you think Barr meant to include the births of his twins into the "no playbook" comment, you really are off the reservation. I can guarantee you that "Geez Ken, I hope it's not too inconvenient, but I'd like to take a pass on hiring new assistants this summer so I can babysit my kids" is not a sentence Barr would ever have uttered before, during or after the HC hiring process.
Again, pure silliness. Anyone in the history of Planet Earth who manages a payroll will tell you, you never advertise that your budget contains "extra money". Ralph hasn't said there isn't ANY money, and there's a very good chance that what he paid Guite and Michaud this past season will end up being more than what Barr can pay his new guy(s) this season. As I've said before, the young and hungry assistant coaches he's likely to choose from are less demanding on the salary front, so long as they think their new job is getting them closer to success and eventually their own HC job. The older assistants out there who are less flexible aren't going to appeal to Barr, and Barr is unlikely to appeal to them. Lastly, I'm certain Barr knows exactly what he has in mind for his 2021/2022 staff. HC's don't punt on important hires like those until "next year".
Guite applied for and pursued a HC job. Alfie did not. Big difference. That said, I'd estimate there is maybe a 50% chance Barr sticks with Michaud, and a 0.000001% chance he sticks with Guite. The point is not whether they want UMaine to win, nor is it that they will work hard regardless. The point is, Michaud has signaled by his actions that he is nothing more than a career assistant at this point, and as a goalie coach, he may have value to Barr (or maybe not). Guite's actions have shown he wants to run the show. That didn't happen, so do you think the rejection won't have an impact on him going forwards? If you're Guite, what sense does it make to spend at least another year at a place that rejected you for your "dream job", delaying your ability to land an HC job somewhere else, and all the while working for the guy they hired instead of you?? That doesn't strike you in the least bit as an unhealthy and/or awkward situation???
Or is this another one of your deft "hook like & sinker" thingies?!?
Nope, there's no "missing context" there. Pretty much everyone understands that when you hire an outside guy over an internal candidate, the internal candidate is not going to be in the new guy's plans (and vice versa). So Guite tells his players he didn't get the job, and his players are sure he'll "land on his feet" (as in, somewhere else), it's really not that complicated. To dumb this down to an apparently appropriate level ... when Biden beat Trump last November, was Biden obligated to offer Trump a spot in his cabinet?
Sure, "there is no playbook" for the last year-plus of the Wuhan Flu, and yes it's incredibly sad that Red passed away when he did, but stepping away for a moment from the emotions of the latter ... UMaine had to fill a coaching vacancy early in the offseason. Whether Red passed or was relieved of his duties was irrelevant in making this an unusual scenario. Now, had Red passed in midseason OR at the start of the season (like Walshy in 2001), THAT would have been much more difficult.
Otherwise, if you think Barr meant to include the births of his twins into the "no playbook" comment, you really are off the reservation. I can guarantee you that "Geez Ken, I hope it's not too inconvenient, but I'd like to take a pass on hiring new assistants this summer so I can babysit my kids" is not a sentence Barr would ever have uttered before, during or after the HC hiring process.
Again, pure silliness. Anyone in the history of Planet Earth who manages a payroll will tell you, you never advertise that your budget contains "extra money". Ralph hasn't said there isn't ANY money, and there's a very good chance that what he paid Guite and Michaud this past season will end up being more than what Barr can pay his new guy(s) this season. As I've said before, the young and hungry assistant coaches he's likely to choose from are less demanding on the salary front, so long as they think their new job is getting them closer to success and eventually their own HC job. The older assistants out there who are less flexible aren't going to appeal to Barr, and Barr is unlikely to appeal to them. Lastly, I'm certain Barr knows exactly what he has in mind for his 2021/2022 staff. HC's don't punt on important hires like those until "next year".
Guite applied for and pursued a HC job. Alfie did not. Big difference. That said, I'd estimate there is maybe a 50% chance Barr sticks with Michaud, and a 0.000001% chance he sticks with Guite. The point is not whether they want UMaine to win, nor is it that they will work hard regardless. The point is, Michaud has signaled by his actions that he is nothing more than a career assistant at this point, and as a goalie coach, he may have value to Barr (or maybe not). Guite's actions have shown he wants to run the show. That didn't happen, so do you think the rejection won't have an impact on him going forwards? If you're Guite, what sense does it make to spend at least another year at a place that rejected you for your "dream job", delaying your ability to land an HC job somewhere else, and all the while working for the guy they hired instead of you?? That doesn't strike you in the least bit as an unhealthy and/or awkward situation???
Or is this another one of your deft "hook like & sinker" thingies?!?
Coach Carvel could not have given a better recommendation. Hope he succeeds in Orono.....but not against UMASS!
Said Carvel, "Ben Barr has made an indelible mark on the UMass Hockey program and will forever be a National Champion. Ben has been highly instrumental in helping put together multiple championship teams at the Division One level and I am excited to see him get the opportunity to serve as a head coach. Ben has found success due to his work ethic and knowledge of the game but what sets him apart, in my eyes, is that he is a high-quality individual and I will miss working with him on a daily basis. We wish him luck and thank him for everything he has given to UMass Hockey over the past five years."
Said Carvel, "Ben Barr has made an indelible mark on the UMass Hockey program and will forever be a National Champion. Ben has been highly instrumental in helping put together multiple championship teams at the Division One level and I am excited to see him get the opportunity to serve as a head coach. Ben has found success due to his work ethic and knowledge of the game but what sets him apart, in my eyes, is that he is a high-quality individual and I will miss working with him on a daily basis. We wish him luck and thank him for everything he has given to UMass Hockey over the past five years."
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Classy statement. And no doubt Carvel will reload his coaching staff.
He's worked minor miracles at UMass, and it's been great fun to watch, even as a Maine fan who used to go to the Mullins expecting a guaranteed win(s) for many years.
This is better. The Maroon is taking the HE flag from BC lately, and I'm fine for Kleenex in that regard.
;-)
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Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
The Parting Schotts Podcast: Talking ValleyCats, Empire and Ben Barr
By Ken Schott | May 27, 2021
https://dailygazette.com/2021/05/27...dcast-talking-valleycats-empire-and-ben-barr/
Ken Schott knew Ben Barr from his time at RPI and UC.
It's the third segment of the podcast.
By Ken Schott | May 27, 2021
https://dailygazette.com/2021/05/27...dcast-talking-valleycats-empire-and-ben-barr/
Ken Schott knew Ben Barr from his time at RPI and UC.
It's the third segment of the podcast.
I listened to this yesterday and unfortunately he doesn't talk a lot about Maine. The only thing of note is that he only went up to Orono for a day or two and has spent the rest of the time in Amherst(with his family situation very understandable.) That's likely the reason we haven't heard anything regarding the Ben and Alfie. I went back and checked and when Red was hired he had told Kerluke and Corkum within a week they weren't coming back.
Does recruiting start back up Tuesday? If that is still the plan that would be the only reason I would think he would want to have the coaching staff finalized soon. Maine doesn't really have a desperate need for bodies, but obviously I think we all want to see some quality added.
Jackcurtis23
New member
Per Mike McMahon...
Ben Guite will not remain on the staff at Maine, per sources. Guite was named the interim head coach in April following the death of Red Gendron. He was a finalist for the full-time job which was awarded to Ben Barr earlier this month.
Guite, per a source, was willing to remain on staff as an assistant under Barr despite losing out on the head coaching job, but the university wanted to move in another direction.
Ben Guite will not remain on the staff at Maine, per sources. Guite was named the interim head coach in April following the death of Red Gendron. He was a finalist for the full-time job which was awarded to Ben Barr earlier this month.
Guite, per a source, was willing to remain on staff as an assistant under Barr despite losing out on the head coaching job, but the university wanted to move in another direction.
The university? I wonder if that is a typo or Ralph didn’t want Guite to be on the staff for whatever reason. I hope that is a typo and Barr isn’t getting interference from administration. It should be completely Barr’s decision.
It will be intereresting to see who he brings in.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Besides the fact that Barr is now an employee of the "university", what's the issue here?
Do you really think anyone at the "university" - Ralph, Barr, the president, the Alfond head janitor - would deny Barr a chance to retain Guite, if Barr wanted to keep Guite on board?
I know you're stubborn and refuse to think this was a "cut and dried" issue, but there is a 99.9999% chance this is how it went. Ralph finished up his HC interviews, did his due diligence, consulted with his committee, and decided to hire Ben Barr. When he made that decision, and offered it to Barr, he would have asked Barr if he had any interest in keeping Guite on as an assistant coach, apparently knowing Guite had (naive) interest in staying on as an AC if he didn't get the HC job. Maybe Guite really likes it up in the Downeast, and figures he's not going to be able to get another job paying anything close to as much as a UMaine AC makes, without having to relocate? Barr, no doubt with his own plans in place, politely told Ralph "no thanks" to keeping Guite on board, so Ralph broke the news to Guite, and then Guite informed returning players, leading to their "Guite will land on his feet somewhere" comments, probably based on Guite telling them he'd ... err, "land on his feet somewhere".
I used to think you were a Guite relative, then I thought you were Larry Mahoney. Now I suspect you're some 14 year old kid without the slightest clue of how adults handle their business.
If you're looking for good news and a "silver lining", McMahon didn't say that Michaud wasn't coming back, so that's apparently still in play (good for Alfie) ...
So in your 'adult world' the right way to do things is to have someone else give the bad news?
I suspect McMahon just worded his story clumsily. Barr should hire/fire whoever he wants without interference. It's kind of odd this wasn't announced soon after Barr took the job.
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