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The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

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Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

ScoobyDoo said:
Of course it is. Because we insist on linking employment to health care yet at the same time we don't require insurance to get health care and we don't require employment to get insurance.

Make sense? No, it didn't make any sense to me either.

The good thing is if you have enough money it doesn't matter either way. So, just go make more.
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It's not a direct link so much as it's the Simpsons' garbage man mantra of, "Why not have someone else do it?" Not to mention, it was the bargaining chip for employment while in WWII because of a federally-mandated wage freeze (as if you needed any more evidence of FDR's socialist totalitarian ways; I wonder if Obama is trying to make FDR look tame). People understand that bargaining power (this case taking the form of health insurance) moves you to the front of the sick line, but because they find that employers are willing to pay that for them, they are drawn to that.
 
FlagDUDE08 said:
To the first statement, my reasoning behind it is seeing teachers actually retire at that age, and then making an inference from there. I don't see where else the lobbying would come from, aside from maybe AARP, who would obviously benefit from the system while screwing over its constituents. AARP does commonly send out those sign-and-send-to-your-Congressman slips in order to push their political agenda; I've held the proof of that in my hand. I don't disagree with you that a politician is trying to put a smile on someone's face. After all, isn't that the very definition of campaigning? Just so long as it is understood that every side does this, not just those "evil Republicans".

As a thought, have you written to your Congressperson or Senator about these ideas for Medicare reform? I think we have some good ideas here. Obviously the politicians don't think they can get it through without a grandfather clause, and that would cause a lot more headache unless they take the Verizon approach (we'll grandfather you, but charge you up the wazoo for it until you switch to one of our current plans).
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I don't have time to litigate all the instances of politicians taking care of their own, but yes I'm sure both sides engage in the practice. In this particular example however I'm not seeing any proposal out of anybody else on either side as absurd as Ryan's.

I tend to write editorials into the two local newspapers on a variety of subjects which on occasion get printed as opposed to writing politicians although I have done that too. Couldn't tell you my batting avg exactly but its a bit better than I expected when I started. :)
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

I think a fairer way to criticize Ryan's budget is rich vs. poor more than young vs. old. A key part of his plan is a huge tax cut for the rich.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

geezer said:
I think a fairer way to criticize Ryan's budget is rich vs. poor more than young vs. old. A key part of his plan is a huge tax cut for the rich.
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There's more spin on that than a basketball held by the Harlem Globetrotters! :eek: Heck, all it is is regurgitated talking points from the 2012 election.

How much is a person's "fair share"?
 
FlagDUDE08 said:
You do understand that the PPACA is causing people to lose jobs (or at least be moved from full-time to part-time), yes?
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You do understand that trend started decades ago, and obamacare is merely the latest scapegoat for penny-pinching owners, right?
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

FlagDUDE08 said:
There's more spin on that than a basketball held by the Harlem Globetrotters! :eek: Heck, all it is is regurgitated talking points from the 2012 election.

How much is a person's "fair share"?
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That's a good question... I don't know what's "fair" if that word is your only measuring stick, but I doubt any kind of tax cuts are in order at the moment - look at the size of the debt. Everyone will have to pay up whether it's fun or not.
 
geezer said:
That's a good question... I don't know what's "fair" if that word is your only measuring stick, but I doubt any kind of tax cuts are in order at the moment - look at the size of the debt. Everyone will have to pay up whether it's fun or not.
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I agree with this. Its a fair point for conservatives to say that we've already raised taxes on the wealthy plus tax hikes embedded in the health care bill. I personally can live with the current individual tax structure. I think there's some corporate gimmicks to be gotten rid of rather easily but I'm not expecting to close the budget deficit with them. However, at this point in history it is not the time for net tax reductions. Shift things around if there's a fairer way to do things but we can't afford a revenue reduction.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

geezer said:
That's a good question... I don't know what's "fair" if that word is your only measuring stick, but I doubt any kind of tax cuts are in order at the moment - look at the size of the debt. Everyone will have to pay up whether it's fun or not.
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Well, I seem to hear nothing but "fair share" as a talking point from this argument, so I think you should be able to define it.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

FlagDUDE08 said:
Well, I seem to hear nothing but "fair share" as a talking point from this argument, so I think you should be able to define it.
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That wasn't me saying "fair share". I'm just saying we've got to pay our bills, even though it will be painful. No more shirking. If the debt gets paid off (HA!) then will be the time to dial back income tax rates.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

geezer said:
That wasn't me saying "fair share". I'm just saying we've got to pay our bills, even though it will be painful. No more shirking. If the debt gets paid off (HA!) then will be the time to dial back income tax rates.
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I don't think anyone is arguing about that. You did, however, put a whining class warfare article up.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

FlagDUDE08 said:
You did, however, put a whining class warfare article up.
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True, but I think it made a fair point amongst the whining: That lowering tax rates on rich people is a bad idea, therefore the Ryan budget plan is a bad idea.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

geezer said:
True, but I think it made a fair point amongst the whining: That lowering tax rates on rich people is a bad idea, therefore the Ryan budget plan is a bad idea.
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Not necessarily. It's making an assumption that people will be having the same amount of taxable income. When you have that amount of "income", as taxes go up, you find ways to hide it, such as through charities.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

FlagDUDE08 said:
Not necessarily. It's making an assumption that people will be having the same amount of taxable income. When you have that amount of "income", as taxes go up, you find ways to hide it, such as through charities.
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Not sure what you're getting at... incentivizing people to give more to charity is a bad thing? Why? That would actually do more good for society than the IRS getting their hands on it first then issuing food stamps with it through some massive bureaucracy. But I'm good with the second option too if that's what it takes to feed the people.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

geezer said:
Not sure what you're getting at... incentivizing people to give more to charity is a bad thing? Why? That would actually do more good for society than the IRS getting their hands on it first then issuing food stamps with it through some massive bureaucracy. But I'm good with the second option too if that's what it takes to feed the people.
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Just an example, but the Fiesta Bowl is a charity. Part of their non-profit venture is apparently to help teach the strippers at the local clubs the proper technique for a lap dance. There are plenty of stories out there about fake charities. Not to mention the charitable activities by athletes. Either the Globe or Herald discovered that something like 30% of proceeds from the Beckett Bowl actually made it to Josh's charity. For Jeter's event it was closer to 25%. You're supposed to strive for 70% going to charity, 30% for "overhead" not the other way around.
 
FlagDUDE08 said:
I don't think anyone is arguing about that. You did, however, put a whining class warfare article up.
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Seriously? You haven't heard or read about anyone arguing for lower taxes for the rich? Are you being willfully ignorant or are you just lying?
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

unofan said:
Seriously? You haven't heard or read about anyone arguing for lower taxes for the rich? Are you being willfully ignorant or are you just lying?
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I barely have to go ten feet for that. The talking point is pretty tired.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

unofan said:
Seriously? You haven't heard or read about anyone arguing for lower taxes for the rich? Are you being willfully ignorant or are you just lying?
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I think this is just confusion over definitions.
Class warfare: Suggesting higher taxes for the rich, or opposing lower taxes for the rich
Appropriate government policy: Suggesting higher taxes on the poor, lower taxes for the rich, or reduction in various government programs that primarily benefit the poor.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Craig P. said:
I think this is just confusion over definitions.
Class warfare: Suggesting higher taxes for the rich, or opposing lower taxes for the rich
Appropriate government policy: Suggesting higher taxes on the poor, lower taxes for the rich, or reduction in various government programs that primarily benefit the poor.
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You could have just played the Mainstream Media's broken record of their interpretation of a "Republican", and saved the time to type all that drivel.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LT3Px11xN-0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

"This to us is something that we're not going to give up on, because we're not going to give up on destroying the health care system for the American people." -- Paul Ryan
 
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