The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Wish I could say I was surprised by the threat to Woodward. But, it really fits the disdainful attitude this administration has for all who oppose/disagree with them or even question them. But, most of the media will sweep this under the rug as quickly as possible, per standard operating procedure.

Bob, it's pretty obvious that he borderline lied about the e-mail being threatening. I'm not even sure this could be classified as stretching the truth.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Bob, it's pretty obvious that he borderline lied about the e-mail being threatening. I'm not even sure this could be classified as stretching the truth.

Well the phone conversation that lead up to the apology could have involved a threat that he would regret it, but yes. based on the below email exchange...no big deal.

 

[Patman]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Ummm...Bob, read the e-mail exchange. No threat happened. How many times do righties have to be made fools of by fabrications from the press before you learn your lesson? Insisting something is true when evidence comes out that its not makes you look like a total idiot. If that's your goal, okay then well done. If not get informed. Remember the Shirley Sherrod story?

Yes, do you want to go over the Shirley Sherrod story?

The administration spot fired her unlike anybody involved in F&F and Benghazi... and when given the opportunity to bring her back in, didn't. Why?

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Priceless, Woodward is a right-wing flunky? Last I checked he was in this business over forty years... lemme guess... he's a senile old fool looking for attention? Because that's what the right and proper social crowd seems to be mooing.

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Rover, must be nice to want to discredit anybody on a whim... so when do they have ethics or rather when do you believe what they say? Do you wait for the president's people to craft the talking points?

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edit: these guys are so afraid of woodward is saying that they have to gangpile on him... that's a tell if there ever was one... instead of brushing it off they went into the two minutes of hate drill. I guess that's what happens when you derail the narrative.

Davis told WMAL that his editor, John Solomon, "received a phone call from a senior Obama White House official who didn't like some of my columns, even though I'm a supporter of Obama. I couldn't imagine why this call was made." Davis says the Obama aide told Solomon, "that if he continued to run my columns, he would lose, or his reporters would lose their White House credentials."

The Davis in question is a former Clinton official.

Remember, all is well.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Any rational person who would be told by the White House that they would regret taking a certain course of action would take that seriously. But, hey, I recognize there's a lot of irrationality going around.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Priceless, Woodward is a right-wing flunky? Last I checked he was in this business over forty years... lemme guess... he's a senile old fool looking for attention? Because that's what the right and proper social crowd seems to be mooing.

He crossed Obama, however mildly he did it. By definition he's a right-wing flunky, or so we're told.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Yes, do you want to go over the Shirley Sherrod story?

The administration spot fired her unlike anybody involved in F&F and Benghazi... and when given the opportunity to bring her back in, didn't. Why?

----

Priceless, Woodward is a right-wing flunky? Last I checked he was in this business over forty years... lemme guess... he's a senile old fool looking for attention? Because that's what the right and proper social crowd seems to be mooing.

I never said Woodward was a right winger. I asked if the misrepresentation of the original story has become yet another right wing talking point that will be repeated even though it isn't true. The answer appears to be yes.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

I never said Woodward was a right winger. I asked if the misrepresentation of the original story has become yet another right wing talking point that will be repeated even though it isn't true. The answer appears to be yes.

Yes, we momentarily forgot. Only Obama's talking points are true and legitimate.

You probably even believe all the scare tactic nonsense coming out of Obama, eh? Farcical.

 

[Rover]

Yes, do you want to go over the Shirley Sherrod story?

The administration spot fired her unlike anybody involved in F&F and Benghazi... and when given the opportunity to bring her back in, didn't. Why?

----

Priceless, Woodward is a right-wing flunky? Last I checked he was in this business over forty years... lemme guess... he's a senile old fool looking for attention? Because that's what the right and proper social crowd seems to be mooing.

----

Rover, must be nice to want to discredit anybody on a whim... so when do they have ethics or rather when do you believe what they say? Do you wait for the president's people to craft the talking points?

----

edit: these guys are so afraid of woodward is saying that they have to gangpile on him... that's a tell if there ever was one... instead of brushing it off they went into the two minutes of hate drill. I guess that's what happens when you derail the narrative.

And you guys wonder why I make fun of you. Yes, I'm happy to discuss the Sherrod story. You did know they offered her a better job, right? She turned it down but fear not. After she's done picking Brietbert's estate clean in her lawsuit (Brietbert's challenge on first amendment grounds was dismissed but they appealed) I'm sure she'll be well taken care of.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resignation_of_Shirley_Sherrod

Also, you do know as Clinton testified she can't by law fire anybody over Benghazi. The chairman of the House committee promised to get that fixed, but as of yet I've heard of no efforts to do so. Are you advocating that she should have broken the law?

It is funny though how Woodward went from being part of a conspiracy to frame Honest Richard Nixon to a right wing hero overnight. He's trying to sell books. The e-mail discredits his version. Not sure what else there is to say.

I miss how when arguing with conservatives nowadays, logic no longer exists on their part. Used to be I'd get into spirited discussion with people like Ritt who actually had a job and despite mutual threats of beatdowns and other retributions, I always respected the guy's intelligence. Now you have people like Bob Gray and Patman latching onto a story they know isn't true, much like the whole Birthers movement. Yikes. Where have all the smart conservatives gone?

PS - One glimmer of hope I'm moving dxm into my list of conservatives I can have a conversation with. That list is now made up of himself and Lynah.

 

[joecct]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Ah - extravagance - Washington DC Style. I wonder if Teddy is rolling over in his grave??
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...812d-11e2-a350-49866afab584_blog.html?hpid=z4

 

[unofan]

Any rational person who would be told by the White House that they would regret taking a certain course of action would take that seriously. But, hey, I recognize there's a lot of irrationality going around.

Oh good lord. Context matters, people.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

And you guys wonder why I make fun of you.

Actually, we don't. You do it because you are an arrogant immature self-centered know-it-all who has no social graces and little self-discipline who enjoys living in a permanent state of adolescence.

"nothing to wonder about here, people. Move along."

 

[unofan]

Yes, we momentarily forgot. Only Obama's talking points are true and legitimate

Did you even read the full e-mail exchange? Because it sure doesn't sound like you have.

 

[Rover]

Actually, we don't. You do it because you are an arrogant immature self-centered know-it-all who has no social graces and little self-discipline who enjoys living in a permanent state of adolescence.

"nothing to wonder about here, people. Move along."

For someone who you don't care about, I sure seem to be able to get under your skin. I'll ask again, what's up with all the bitterness and bile. Where have all the happy conservatives gone.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Thomas Sowell was in better than usual form yesterday.

John Stuart Mill’s classic essay “On Liberty” gives reasons why some people should not be taking over other people’s decisions about their own lives. But Harvard Professor Cass Sunstein has given reasons to the contrary. He cites research showing “that people make a lot of mistakes, and that those mistakes can prove extremely damaging.”

Sunstein is undoubtedly correct that “people make a lot of mistakes.” Most of us can look back over our own lives and see many mistakes, some very damaging. What Sunstein does not tell us is what sort of creatures, other than people, are going to override our mistaken decisions for us.

Implicit in the wide range of efforts on the left to get government to take over more of our decisions for us is the assumption that there is some superior class of people who are either wiser or nobler than the rest of us. [emphasis added]

Yes, we all make mistakes. But do governments not make bigger and more catastrophic mistakes?

Think about the First World War, from which nations on both sides ended up worse off than before, after an unprecedented carnage that killed substantial fractions of whole younger generations and left millions starving amid the rubble of war.

Even in the United States, government policies in the 1930s led to crops being plowed under, thousands of pigs being slaughtered and buried and milk being poured down sewers, at a time when many Americans were suffering from hunger and diseases caused by malnutrition.

The Great Depression of the 1930s, in which millions of people were plunged into poverty in even the most prosperous nations, was needlessly prolonged by government policies now recognized in retrospect as foolish and irresponsible.

One key difference between mistakes that we make and mistakes made by governments is that bad consequences force us to correct our mistakes. But government officials cannot admit to making a mistake without jeopardizing their whole careers. Can you imagine a president saying to the mothers of America, “I am sorry your sons were killed in a war I never should have gotten us into”? [emphasis added]

Even more relevant to Professor Sunstein’s desire to have our betters tell us how to live our lives is that so many oppressive and even catastrophic government policies were cheered on by the intelligentsia.

Back in the 1930s, for example, totalitarianism was considered to be “the wave of the future” by much of the intelligentsia, not only in the totalitarian countries themselves but in democratic nations as well.

The Soviet Union was praised to the skies by such literary luminaries as George Bernard Shaw in Britain and Edmund Wilson in America, while literally millions of people were being systematically starved to death by Stalin and masses of others were being shipped off to slave labor camps.

Even Hitler and Mussolini had their supporters or apologists among intellectuals in the Western democracies, including at one time Lincoln Steffens and W.E.B. Du Bois.

An even larger array of 1930s intellectuals opposed the efforts of Western democracies to respond to Hitler’s massive military buildup. ‘‘Disarmament” was the mantra of the day among the intelligentsia, often garnished with the suggestion that the Western democracies should “set an example” for other nations — as if Nazi Germany or imperial Japan was likely to follow their example.

Too many among today’s intellectual elite see themselves as our shepherds and us as their sheep. Tragically, too many of us are apparently willing to be sheep, in exchange for being taken care of, being relieved of the burdens of adult responsibility and being supplied with “free” stuff paid for by others.

It seems that whenever a government program doesn't work, the answer never seems to be "hmm....that isn't working, let's try something else"....it nearly always seems to be "hmm...that isn't working, so let's do even more of it!"



That's why the Gingrich / Clinton welfare reform from the mid-1990s was so special. "Experts" predicted catastrophe before it was implemented...then it turned out in practice that it was even more effective than anticipated!


The biggest reasons why progressives will never understand conservatives is because progressives project their own selfishness onto others rather than take ownership of it themselves. Let's be honest here: progressives generally are more concerned with applying salve to their own conscience than they are about actually "helping" someone else! that is why every progressive program requires government involvment: it is not about the solution at all; it merely is about making a big show about how hard they are trying.

Conservatives in my experience tend to be far more compassionate when it comes to dealing with actual, real people (instead of abstract categories). They are not against helping people they are merely against setting up a massive bureaucracy that doesn't deliver; preferring instead to use that money more effectively (albeit also more frugally) to accomplish similar ends.

Conservatives donate their own money and volunteer their own time to provide genuine assistance to people who need it; progressives confiscate other people's money and impose mandates on other people's time without regard to efficacy because efficacy doesn't really matter to them. What they care about most is side-stepping the cognitive dissonance they'd otherwise suffer if they ever were forced to face up to how selfish they actually are.

 

[busterman62]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Oh good lord. Context matters, people.

Bingo. We have a winner.

If I say to you "You'll regret picking up that razor'" out of fear you'll cut yourself, I'm being helpful. If I just punched you, pulled out a gun and said the same thing, I'm threatening. One also has to consider the mindset of the person receiving the "threat". Kinda like telling a female coworker they look really nice. It could be a compliment if she likes you but sexual harassment if she doesn't.

In this case, We know what the email says but don't have the details of the rest of the prior exchange. My gut says Rover is correct (and now my guts hurt ) but without knowing the entire context of the situation, one can't make a accurate judgement. Not surprising it's being interpreted along party lines.

 

[Rover]

Bingo. We have a winner.

If I say to you "You'll regret picking up that razor'" out of fear you'll cut yourself, I'm being helpful. If I just punched you, pulled out a gun and said the same thing, I'm threatening. One also has to consider the mindset of the person receiving the "threat". Kinda like telling a female coworker they look really nice. It could be a compliment if she likes you but sexual harassment if she doesn't.

In this case, We know what the email says but don't have the details of the rest of the prior exchange. My gut says Rover is correct (and now my guts hurt ) but without knowing the entire context of the situation, one can't make a accurate judgement. Not surprising it's being interpreted along party lines.

Well said and sorry about your gut. Like any President there's plenty of material to blast Obama over. This ain't one of 'em and its amazing to see how hard it is for some people to give up the ghost on this story. Woodward screwed you. Blame him (who you wouldn't think a righty would trust anyway) and move on.

Fishy, I think we all know what ails you, and it isn't related to politics. I am amused by the compassion though of conservative Paul Ryan wanting to slash Medicare to pay for upper income tax cuts. Compassionate all right, as long as you're one of the top earners. Elderly and on fixed income....maybe not so much.

 

[walrus]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Actually, we don't. You do it because you are an arrogant immature self-centered know-it-all who has no social graces and little self-discipline who enjoys living in a permanent state of adolescence.

"nothing to wonder about here, people. Move along."

Yet you continue to let him bait you, its really a hoot

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

A second person, Lanny Davis, who was counsel to Bill Clinton, has come forward with a similar claim regarding the White House threatening people.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/28/white-house-denies-staffer-threatened-watergate-journalist-woodward/

Maybe we need to pass some anti-bullying laws for the White House!

 

[Rover]

Yet you continue to let him bait you, its really a hoot

Its funny because I'd be more than happy to have serious discussions with people but this Woodward story really shows how hard that is. Long after the full e-mail texts were posted out here completely disproving the WH threatening e-mail angle, Bob is still beating the drum. Should I 1) try to engage him seriously, or 2) after having already posted the full e-mail for his consumption, just have fun at his expense if he insists on continuing to bring up a descredited story? At some point you have to stop engaging people on points of absurdity.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Its funny because I'd be more than happy to have serious discussions with people but this Woodward story really shows how hard that is. Long after the full e-mail texts were posted out here completely disproving the WH threatening e-mail angle, Bob is still beating the drum. Should I 1) try to engage him seriously, or 2) after having already posted the full e-mail for his consumption, just have fun at his expense if he insists on continuing to bring up a descredited story? At some point you have to stop engaging people on points of absurdity.

Yes, that's a lesson I've learned over and over around here.

Oh, and, as always, nice evasion.