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The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

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Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Rover said:
Republicans emerged from New Year’s Day angry and divided—and defeated.
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The Republican Party is finished. The only thing wrong about this story is that it's four years behind the times. The writing has been on the wall for the well-deserved death of the party since they failed to come up with any reasonable alternatives to anything put forth by Obama back in 2008. Since that Year of Incompetence turned into a Decade of Futility, they've deserved to be shown the door whenever possible and replaced by some fresh blood. What's the point of keeping these jokers around when they don't have a single good idea on how to run things?
We should also keep in mind that the incompetence of the Republicans is NOT a good thing for the country, in itself. It just means continued growth of instituted irresponsibility via the Democratics. We're all screwed.
 
geezer said:
The Republican Party is finished. The only thing wrong about this story is that it's four years behind the times. The writing has been on the wall for the well-deserved death of the party since they failed to come up with any reasonable alternatives to anything put forth by Obama back in 2008. Since that Year of Incompetence turned into a Decade of Futility, they've deserved to be shown the door whenever possible and replaced by some fresh blood. What's the point of keeping these jokers around when they don't have a single good idea on how to run things?
We should also keep in mind that the incompetence of the Republicans is NOT a good thing for the country, in itself. It just means continued growth of instituted irresponsibility via the Democratics. We're all screwed.
Click to expand...

Geezer, you missed the point of the article. Its not the the GOP is a broken down hunk of sh ! t (even though it is; as you say that's been evident for awhile now). Its the idiot lamestream media's obsession with Republican operatives as being some sort of Dr. No characters who are always a step ahead of everybody else. What I found most amusing is how many of my fellow liberals, even some on this message board, buy into this crap every election cycle. For example, several posters thought it brilliant that the legislature in PA was going to award electoral votes by congressional district, which would put Romney over the top. Seems even with those 10 extra electoral votes Mittens would have come up a wee bit short. Then the Karl Rove inspired Super Pacs were going to be unstopable....blah blah blah.

Basically I'd like to see this article read aloud at CNN and then watch all of their heads explode. While disparaging their politics, I always considered the GOP to have excellent campaign operatives, but that ended in 2006 when the Dems finally banned the Bob Shrums and Terry McAuliffs from running campaigns and used the power of organization to their advantage. Really, the last stellar campaing managed by Republican operatives was the 2004 effort, where a weak and bumbling incumbent was re-elected reasonably easily thanks to making his opponent into and even weaker bumbling idiot by comparison. Its been slim pickings since then.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

geezer said:
The Republican Party is finished. The only thing wrong about this story is that it's four years behind the times. The writing has been on the wall for the well-deserved death of the party since they failed to come up with any reasonable alternatives to anything put forth by Obama back in 2008. Since that Year of Incompetence turned into a Decade of Futility, they've deserved to be shown the door whenever possible and replaced by some fresh blood. What's the point of keeping these jokers around when they don't have a single good idea on how to run things?
We should also keep in mind that the incompetence of the Republicans is NOT a good thing for the country, in itself. It just means continued growth of instituted irresponsibility via the Democrats. We're all screwed.
Click to expand...
The Republican Party is no more finished than the Democrats were in 1984, 94 or 2004. This incarnation of the GOP is dead, but thanks to gerrymandering we'll have to deal with the death throes for years to come. The GOP will reinvent itself, find it's soul and be back. Hopefully a true opposition party run by sane people and not an obstructionist party run by Tea Party crackpots. If it's the latter, the GOP will be truly relegated to regional status and something will have to form in the middle because all those moderates are not going to find a place in either party.

The Democrats have to be careful here as well. Just as the electorate lurched to the right in 1994 and 2010, the country has now lurched to the left. It isn't necessarily because Democrats ideas are flawless, more that voters rejected the GOP candidates. The Democrats cannot overreach or the country will lurch back to the right in 2014. Of course, if the TP crackpots have taken over, it's anyone's guess where the electorate will go....
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Rover said:
Its the idiot lamestream media's obsession with Republican operatives as being some sort of Dr. No characters who are always a step ahead of everybody else.
Click to expand...
I don't see how this view exists anymore. I don't watch TV news, but this view would seem to be self-evident BS when the Republicans have been getting their asses kicked in every election lately. As I said, the whole story seems to be 4 years behind the times.
 
geezer said:
I don't see how this view exists anymore. I don't watch TV news, but this view would seem to be self-evident BS when the Republicans have been getting their asses kicked in every election lately. As I said, the whole story seems to be 4 years behind the times.
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Old habits die hard. As the author implies and I agree with, a lot of these media people are well into their 50's and 60's. When they began their careers 30+ years ago as young men and women, we were in the dawn of the Reagan administration and fact are facts - the GOP was winning elections (3 in a row and 5 out of 6 by 1988). Unfortunately like many old people they're set in their ways and can't comprehend change.

I'll give you a hilarious example. I flipped channels a lot post debate just to see the difference in coverage. Fox and MSNBC were reliably partisan which is fine because that's what they do. The absolute best election night coverage was from the BBC, and not just because of the cool accents. Their analysis without a dog in the fight was spot on.

But, after the foreign policy debate I believe I had it turned on CNN, and not only were they wedded to the notion that somehow Mittens fought to a draw, they were actually trying to suggest GOP campaign commercials! Based on Obama telling Romney that we have less ships in the Navy vs WWI for the same reason why we have less bayonettes and horse drawn wagons, two idiots had this exchange:

Wolf Blitzer (is that his real name?): How about Obama comparing the Navy to horse drawn carriages? That might not play well in Norfork.

John King: Oooooo...I bet we'll be seeing that ad by Republicans in Virginia tomorrow Wolf.

?!? I was astounded by the stupidity of it all, especially since even the Republicans surely realized how dumb an add like this would have been (and they did some doozies, like the Jeep ad in Ohio the week before election day). Then I thought about these two bozos, a couple of 50-60 year old lifetime cable TV hacks who couldn't comprehend a political news event that didn't put Republicans in a good light. As mentioned before I've dubbed it the "Cokie Roberts Effect".

So, while you often complain of my partisan leanings, I stand with conservatives on this one issue: CNN sucks. Not because of any partisan leanings, but because of p ! ss poor coverage. Even Fox humiliated Karl Rove on live TV when he went too far to the right on election night.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Priceless said:
The Republican Party is no more finished than the Democrats were in 1984, 94 or 2004. This incarnation of the GOP is dead, but thanks to gerrymandering we'll have to deal with the death throes for years to come. The GOP will reinvent itself, find it's soul and be back. Hopefully a true opposition party run by sane people and not an obstructionist party run by Tea Party crackpots. If it's the latter, the GOP will be truly relegated to regional status and something will have to form in the middle because all those moderates are not going to find a place in either party.

The Democrats have to be careful here as well. Just as the electorate lurched to the right in 1994 and 2010, the country has now lurched to the left. It isn't necessarily because Democrats ideas are flawless, more that voters rejected the GOP candidates. The Democrats cannot overreach or the country will lurch back to the right in 2014. Of course, if the TP crackpots have taken over, it's anyone's guess where the electorate will go....
Click to expand...
Gerrymandering works both ways -- see Maryland. But because the legislatures now carve out safe seats for just about everyone, you can be caught pilfering from the public trough (and just about anything else) and still get re-elected, as long as (a) you're the correct party for that district, (b) you've been reelected at least once, and (c) you're not a guest of Uncle Sam in some facility for an extended period of time.

There is a wise adage that all elections have consequences. I will submit that we the voters themselves should have most of the blame assigned to us for this disfunctional series of Congresses. We keep reelecting the idiots (of course, your representative is an idiot, mine is an absolute Einstein) time after time. Hence, the politicians can do what they want, when they want, and we get the shaft.

As Pogo said - "We have met the enemy and they is us."
 
geezer said:
I don't see how this view exists anymore. I don't watch TV news, but this view would seem to be self-evident BS when the Republicans have been getting their asses kicked in every election lately. As I said, the whole story seems to be 4 years behind the times.
Click to expand...

The GOP holds most governor's mansions and state legislatures. They're still likely to regain at least the eight seats lost in the house and probably a couple of senate seats as well in 2014. (If they do something insane like shutdown the govt in 2 months, then all bets are off). The Dems still haven't learned that local elections matter as much or more than the presidency.

Iowa is one state senate race away from being the next wisconsin. There's also no one in the wings waiting to take on the stache in 2 years for governor. They're already talking about Culver running again despite having his *** handed to him in 2010.
 
joecct said:
Gerrymandering works both ways -- see Maryland. But because the legislatures now carve out safe seats for just about everyone, you can be caught pilfering from the public trough (and just about anything else) and still get re-elected, as long as (a) you're the correct party for that district, (b) you've been reelected at least once, and (c) you're not a guest of Uncle Sam in some facility for an extended period of time.

There is a wise adage that all elections have consequences. I will submit that we the voters themselves should have most of the blame assigned to us for this disfunctional series of Congresses. We keep reelecting the idiots (of course, your representative is an idiot, mine is an absolute Einstein) time after time. Hence, the politicians can do what they want, when they want, and we get the shaft.

As Pogo said - "We have met the enemy and they is us."
Click to expand...

There is a positive movement taking shape in recent years, and its not liberalism, gay rights, Tea partyism, or anything like that. Its more states adopting fair districting proposals usually via voter initiatives. When drawing the lines is put into an independent commission's hands, you get a lot better results.

So, while I don't have an exhaustive list, I can give recent examples of CA and AZ that have done this. Some may recall the two CA Dems that almost got into a fist fight at a debate. That was because the commission put them in the same district. IA does it this way also and FL adopted a weaker version.

The hill isn't as tough to climb as it may seem. Of the 50 states, you can exclude the one and two seat ones (ME, NH, VT, RI, DE, ND, SD, MT, WY, ID, AK, HI). Then exclude the rest of the states who already use commissions (CA, AZ, MO, NJ, WA, IA). That's already 18 states, and I'm not sure there's a lot to be done in the 3 district states of KS, NE, and NM.

If this comes up for a vote in your state, push for it and let the chips fall where they may. In my home state (MA) the congressional delegation blows, so I wouldn't mind a shake up now and again. This is something that needs to happen.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Rover said:
There is a positive movement taking shape in recent years, and its not liberalism, gay rights, Tea partyism, or anything like that. Its more states adopting fair districting proposals usually via voter initiatives. When drawing the lines is put into an independent commission's hands, you get a lot better results.

So, while I don't have an exhaustive list, I can give recent examples of CA and AZ that have done this. Some may recall the two CA Dems that almost got into a fist fight at a debate. That was because the commission put them in the same district. IA does it this way also and FL adopted a weaker version.

The hill isn't as tough to climb as it may seem. Of the 50 states, you can exclude the one and two seat ones (ME, NH, VT, RI, DE, ND, SD, MT, WY, ID, AK, HI). Then exclude the rest of the states who already use commissions (CA, AZ, MO, NJ, WA, IA). That's already 18 states, and I'm not sure there's a lot to be done in the 3 district states of KS, NE, and NM.

If this comes up for a vote in your state, push for it and let the chips fall where they may. In my home state (MA) the congressional delegation blows, so I wouldn't mind a shake up now and again. This is something that needs to happen.
Click to expand...
Maryland is about as Blue as MA. Getting anything through the State House that will affect the Democratic hegemony is like asking the Kennedys to be sober.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Rover said:
The hill isn't as tough to climb as it may seem. Of the 50 states, you can exclude the one and two seat ones (ME, NH, VT, RI, DE, ND, SD, MT, WY, ID, AK, HI). Then exclude the rest of the states who already use commissions (CA, AZ, MO, NJ, WA, IA). That's already 18 states, and I'm not sure there's a lot to be done in the 3 district states of KS, NE, and NM.
Click to expand...

Even though ME is 2 district the GOP, after capturing a short-lived majority, tried to redraw the district lines to give them a shot at capturing the second congressional district in 2012 by moving Lewiston from the second district to the first. Their plan would have shifted 25% of the voters from one district to another. In the end, there was enough opposition (including threats of legal challenges and people's veto) to push compromise that was a lot closer to the democrats redistricting plan that just shifted a few towns around.
 
joecct said:
Maryland is about as Blue as MA. Getting anything through the State House that will affect the Democratic hegemony is like asking the Kennedys to be sober.
Click to expand...

Well you're in luck, because the new Congressman (JoeK3) doesn't drink.

I would advice circumventing the legislature and adopting it via a voter initiative.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

When I hear gerrymandering I think of MA dems :p

Reps still control the house, right? Not bad for "finished".

Interesting that itch gets credit in the article for bumping up the max tax bracket to 450k. He, and that camp guy from MI during the house vote, both keep saying that "revenue is now settled". Will be interesting....

Note- I saw something where the fed could start to default on feb 15.... So if you expect a tax refund file ASAP :p
 
mookie1995 said:
When I hear gerrymandering I think of MA dems :p

Reps still control the house, right? Not bad for "finished".

Interesting that itch gets credit in the article for bumping up the max tax bracket to 450k. He, and that camp guy from MI during the house vote, both keep saying that "revenue is now settled". Will be interesting....

Note- I saw something where the fed could start to default on feb 15.... So if you expect a tax refund file ASAP :p
Click to expand...

GOP controls House solely due to redistricting. Dem candidates actually drew 1M+ more votes than Republican ones this time around...

Itch and Camp's mouths are writing checks that they can't cash. Look for an initial two week rise in the debt ceiling followed by month and then two months before Wall St starts making its displeasure known.
 
mookie1995 said:
You realize this means absolutely nothing, right? :)
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Yes I do! However, I like fighting nonsense with nonsense! Sorta like fighting fire with fire, but not really. ;). Saying the GOP has a mandate (not your words, but those of others) because they were re-elected with a House majority is a joke. The GOP House is as popular as jock itch. They'd better cling to these gerrymandered districts like grim death, because its the only thing keeping them relevant.
 
Rover said:
Yes I do! However, I like fighting nonsense with nonsense! Sorta like fighting fire with fire, but not really. ;). Saying the GOP has a mandate (not your words, but those of others) because they were re-elected with a House majority is a joke. The GOP House is as popular as jock itch. They'd better cling to these gerrymandered districts like grim death, because its the only thing keeping them relevant.
Click to expand...

Moolie was only pointing out that claiming reps are dead is premature when they control the house... The volume of crazy emails Mookie sees fwd'd to him nightly shows there are enough wacky gun loving tax-haters, birthers out there to keep them (the 'non-47%'ers' :) ) motivated. ;)
 
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