The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

[geezer]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

I must have been the only person to have benefited. The car I have today was bought through that program.

Of course not, as the story mentions there were 700,000 individuals that benefited from that disgusting handout at our (the taxpayers) expense. There is no free lunch, other people had to pay your bills for you but I certainly don't blame you or anyone else for taking advantage of it. That's the way the system is set up.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Of course not, as the story mentions there were 700,000 individuals that benefited from that disgusting handout at our (the taxpayers) expense. There is no free lunch, other people had to pay your bills for you but I certainly don't blame you or anyone else for taking advantage of it. That's the way the system is set up.

Completely agree with this. Keep in mind, when rich people take advantage of the tax system, it's despicable.

I say good for them, all 700,000 of them. I'd love to have $4,500 to buy a new car. My problem is that I'd rather drive my current car into the ground and save money in the long run by having a beater to drive in the winter.

 

[pirate]

If only we could have a President with an MBA to satisfy our righty friends desire to run govt like business....

Oh, wait - we DID have one? Must have been a time of balanced budgets and sensible economic policies.

Look, some ideas such as pirate's about having a zillion different school districts are spot on. However, the blame for that isn't the gubmints. Its the American people who are wedded to the notion of local schools and local control and reasonably smaller classrooms. I guess you could offer up or restrict federal dollars to get states to consolidate their school districts, but why do I think if you did that the very people clammoring for "less govt" would be going berserk over what they perceive as the heavy hand of the feds telling them what to do.

But the solution or improvements aren't going to come from Internet chat boards...I said nothing about blame. Plenty to go around. The president of the united states has the power to solve almost anything...military spending? Right in the wheelhouse. Education spending? Enough federal dollars to get something done. The IRS? Down the street. Redundant departments? On every street.

They stay away from the complex things that really need to be done and would create substantial change...instead they come up with gimmicks like CARS, temporary tax changes, loan forgiveness etc. that absolutely kill the mid to long term horizon but garner votes in the short-term.

We've all discussed the fact that, at the root of it, none of us should really trust the math that is done to justify most of the things that are supposed to help.

Savings are really just deferred spending, accounting rules are bent like pretzels, estimates grow on trees etc. who really knows, with any degree of confidence, if anything saves or costs what is reported?

Now, I think I did a pretty good job of saying at least one person isn't saying run the entire government like a business...at least one of us is saying that basic business principals apply across everything from running a non-profit to planning a bachelor party.

It is so ***** easy to summarize that into "oh you want to run the whole government like a Dairy Queen" but that isn't what anyone has suggested.

Edit: if the government instituted federal guidelines that reduced school spending and/or produced real improvement...the majority would get behind it. I would suggest there is something between every district for itself and martial law. The notion that the only way to fix it would be yet another new department spending an unlimited budget, trying to introduce new programs with no measurable indications of effect would trouble me...but the government shouldn't view every problem as the excuse to start a new department and spend more money....sometimes problems are solved by spending less money.

 

[joecct]

I have a considerable amount of experience with business. I consult on biz strategy.

But there is way too much business worship around here. Govt may not be functioning well. But if it were run like a business of comparable size...we would be toast. In a business of comparable size, you'd have more beauracracy, a long term horizon of one quarter, Congress would have individual salaries topping 10 million each...with 10x that as a golden parachutte when they get voted out, and a goal...not of supporting society...but of putting everyone that's not a customer out of business. Whatever you say about govt, a corporate point of view would be faar worse in trying to deliver public goods.

If a business was in debt as much as the feds, would it qualify for a "too big to fail" bailout?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

But the solution or improvements aren't going to come from Internet chat boards...I said nothing about blame. Plenty to go around. The president of the united states has the power to solve almost anything...military spending? Right in the wheelhouse. Education spending? Enough federal dollars to get something done. The IRS? Down the street. Redundant departments? On every street.

They could very well come from chat boards. Just make it viral and spread the word. You could very well end up in DC.

 

[joecct]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

You knew this was coming.... Did the GOP ever do this for Ike or Reagan?? http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c113:H.J.+Res.+15:

113th CONGRESS
1st Session

H. J. RES. 15
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to repeal the twenty-second article of amendment, thereby removing the limitation on the number of terms an individual may serve as President.


IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
January 4, 2013

Mr. SERRANO introduced the following joint resolution; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary


JOINT RESOLUTION
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to repeal the twenty-second article of amendment, thereby removing the limitation on the number of terms an individual may serve as President.

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled (two-thirds of each House concurring therein), That the following article is proposed as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of the Constitution when ratified by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several States within seven years after the date of its submission for ratification:
`Article--

`The twenty-second article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.'.

It will never see the light of day...

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

I think there should be term limits on presidents but I have absolutely no issue with the introduction of this legislation.

 

[joecct]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

I think there should be term limits on presidents but I have absolutely no issue with the introduction of this legislation.

Either do I. A representative has the right to introduce any legislation he/she wants. That's why we have Committees as a place for bad bills to die and foolish bills to come to fruition.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

I guess I'm not sure why it's even worth posting then.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

You knew this was coming.... Did the GOP ever do this for Ike or Reagan?? http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c113:H.J.+Res.+15:



It will never see the light of day...

What a shocker... the messiah dictator wants a life term...

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Either do I. A representative has the right to introduce any legislation he/she wants. That's why we have Committees as a place for bad bills to die and foolish bills to come to fruition.

And for long bills to be declared needed to be passed so we know what's in them.

 

[goldy_331]

I guess I'm not sure why it's even worth posting then.

To show how dumb this particular rep is?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

This will probably be the shortest bill that Congress has or will write in a couple of decades.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

I must have been the only person to have benefited. The car I have today was bought through that program.

One can benefit personally while lamenting the unfortunate side-effects too. This was one of the most absurd government programs I've ever seen, and I've lived long enough now to have seen plenty of nonsense!

We traded in a 1998 Explorer for a 2010 Corolla under that program too, while ridiculing the program the entire time. What a tremendous waste it was all around!
> it did nothing to increase car sales, it merely moved car sales forward in time. All the cars traded in during the program's run would eventually have been traded in or junked anyway. As soon as the program ended, car sales immediately declined dramatically.
> it removed a tremendously valuable asset from purchase by lower income people: usually a trade-in is reconditioned and sold; none of these trade-ins were resold. So that program actually hurt lower income people by removing all those potential used cars from the market, driving up prices for used cars.
> as the article noted, it also hurt the used parts market by not allowing dealers to sell parts after 180 days. So people who repair cars also lost out on the ability to use all those spare parts.

It was a government give-away pure and simple. "Free" money if you were lucky. It was really funny for us because of Obama's "screw the rich" rhetoric, while in order to qualify for the program you had to be able to afford a new car even after the trade.

We took a car with a resale value of maybe $1,850 at most, that needed substantial repairs to boot, and instead got $4,000 toward a new car. On top of that, dealers were bidding against each other to move inventory which means we got a lower purchase price than otherwise as well.

Meanwhile, economy-wide, most of the vehicles purchased were made by Honda and Toyota, probably manufactured in right-to-work states, while the program was touted as a way to help the US auto industry. Fiasco.

Do you think they've learned anything in the meantime?

 

[pirate]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

I don't know much about the inventory cycle of cars but I wonder how many incremental cars were made even to meet the short-term demand or did they only dry up the current inventory.

This type of example represents the difference in opinion over how government should work...instead of doing something with little cost to them they create the most expensive process imaginable. What is the quote? "The best way to make some thing expensive is for the govenment to try to make it affordable."

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index....ate_comptroller_sta.html#incart_river_default

Oh, but at least they're not welfare suckers, unlike certain republican states.

 

[Rover]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

I think some of you righties need to get laid. Perhaps then you'd have less time to entertain nonsensical complaints. Now I know most if not all of you are getting up in years, if you'll pardon the expression, but remember that according to legend those great old commedians George Burns and Milton Berle were getting action late into their 80's (although not with each other I don't believe) so don't use age as an excuse!

Now can one of you knucks' use your righteous indignation to explain to me why yet another conservative Republican who takes a stand against NY-NJ hurricane relief had his hand out to the feds when it was his district affected?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rep. Steven Palazzo (R-MS) voted against relief for victims of Hurricane Sandy last week, TPM reports, "despite representing coastal Mississippi, one of the regions hardest hit by Hurricane Katrina and a top beneficiary of Katrina disaster aid."

In fact, Palazzo "was deeply involved in pressing for federal dollars in the fall of 2005. Then acting in his role as a local government official, Palazzo repeatedly appealed for federal funding to help rebuild his battered coastal Mississippi community in the wake of Hurricane Katrina."

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Now can one of you knucks' use your righteous indignation to explain to me why yet another conservative Republican who takes a stand against NY-NJ hurricane relief had his hand out to the feds when it was his district affected?

Now can one of you 'stains use your entitled indignation to explain to me why yet another liberal Democrat who took a stand against LA-MS hurricane relief has his hand out to the feds when it is his district affected?

 

[geezer]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

explain to me why yet another conservative Republican

Rover, and others, I know it gives your life some weird sense of purpose to turn every story into "This is good if a Demcratic does it, but it's eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil if a Republican does it! Which major political party does the subject of the story subscribe to?" as your be-all and end-all of right and wrong. But I'd like to invite you to step out of that tiny little box for just a second.

Step back and look at the bigger picture once in a while. Think about this: what is the role of our federal government in rebuilding the homes of people who built on a beach and will build on a beach again with their insurance payout? What SHOULD that role be? Should taxpayer funds be involved in subsidizing these wasteful lifestyles in addition to their insurance payouts? Leaving political party affiliation aside, what is actually the right thing to do? Isn't it time we fired everyone involved with the failure that is Washington DC, regardless of which major political party they belong to, even if it's the "right" one according to our personal cult-like beliefs, and start from scratch with smarter leaders?

As you can tell, I'm slightly troubled by people's over-reliance on political party directives. I actually had someone tell me on this board the other week that if I didn't choose one party and do whatever they tell me to, it's a "cop-out" of my responsibility. Nonsense. Open your brains people.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Rover, and others, I know it gives your life some weird sense of purpose to turn every story into "This is good if a Demcratic does it, but it's eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil if a Republican does it! Which major political party does the subject of the story subscribe to?" as your be-all and end-all of right and wrong. But I'd like to invite you to step out of that tiny little box for just a second.

Step back and look at the bigger picture once in a while. Think about this: what is the role of our federal government in rebuilding the homes of people who built on a beach and will build on a beach again with their insurance payout? What SHOULD that role be? Should taxpayer funds be involved in subsidizing these wasteful lifestyles in addition to their insurance payouts? Leaving political party affiliation aside, what is actually the right thing to do? Isn't it time we fired everyone involved with the failure that is Washington DC, regardless of which major political party they belong to, even if it's the "right" one according to our personal cult-like beliefs, and start from scratch with smarter leaders?

As you can tell, I'm slightly troubled by people's over-reliance on political party directives. I actually had someone tell me on this board the other week that if I didn't choose one party and do whatever they tell me to, it's a "cop-out" of my responsibility. Nonsense. Open your brains people.

Oh, but taking a lesson from Matthew 7:26 means you're clinging to your guns and religion!