walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: The 2013 New England Patriots
Yup. Bill can coach but he doesn't make the best moves with the roster.
Yup. Bill can coach but he doesn't make the best moves with the roster.
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The 2013 New England Patriots
- Thread starter Jason A
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mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
puhleeze. patsies' offense scored what? 41-35-43 in the three games leading up to the afc championship game.
to all of a sudden claim that there were no 'weapons' is yet another fanboy cop-out.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
JF_Gophers
2147483647
Re: The 2013 New England Patriots
They only rushed maybe 16 times with their backs, but did get 4.0 yds avg. So maybe they should have tried that more.
To be fair, running wasn't their game plan. The Denver defense was poor against the pass. So running was never going to be a factor.
They only rushed maybe 16 times with their backs, but did get 4.0 yds avg. So maybe they should have tried that more.
Re: The 2013 New England Patriots
i completely disagree that running was never going to be a factor. i'm sure they had every intention of at least tryong to run. did they give up on it too quickly? or did it have more to do with the game situation? keep in mind at 10-3 late in the first half the pats defense allowed a long fg drive for denver with basically no time left in the first half for pats offense. opening drive of 2nd half denver uses up half the quarter (pats allowed denver's two longest drives of the season time wise) and scores 7. boom, 20-3 just like that with only a quarter and a half to go. offense picked it up after that but ran out of time plus defense
still couldnt get off the field after that.
offense didnt do enough in first half but the defense did zilch all game long. pats were never going to win with that type of defensive performance.
i completely disagree that running was never going to be a factor. i'm sure they had every intention of at least tryong to run. did they give up on it too quickly? or did it have more to do with the game situation? keep in mind at 10-3 late in the first half the pats defense allowed a long fg drive for denver with basically no time left in the first half for pats offense. opening drive of 2nd half denver uses up half the quarter (pats allowed denver's two longest drives of the season time wise) and scores 7. boom, 20-3 just like that with only a quarter and a half to go. offense picked it up after that but ran out of time plus defense
still couldnt get off the field after that.
offense didnt do enough in first half but the defense did zilch all game long. pats were never going to win with that type of defensive performance.
Jon
Say, this is nice.
Re: The 2013 New England Patriots
The best part about any Patriots loss is all the people on the intertubes trolling. It's pretty ridiculous.
I think the most random one was Mike from MST3K. Not that I can stay mad at the man who helped bring Big McLargehuge, Torgo and Rowsdower into our lives, but what the actual Roboshark?!?!
The best part about any Patriots loss is all the people on the intertubes trolling. It's pretty ridiculous.
I think the most random one was Mike from MST3K. Not that I can stay mad at the man who helped bring Big McLargehuge, Torgo and Rowsdower into our lives, but what the actual Roboshark?!?!
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
rufus
rock and roller
Re: The 2013 New England Patriots
Simply put, Brady hasn't been "Tom effin' Brady" since he hurt his knee. He's been good, sometimes better than good, sometimes even flashes of his old self, but for the most part, he's just been a good to above-average NFL quarterback. But he's not the superhero he was before injuring the knee.
Some of it may be age. Some of it may be the millions he's earned over the years. But he's not the same.
Simply put, Brady hasn't been "Tom effin' Brady" since he hurt his knee. He's been good, sometimes better than good, sometimes even flashes of his old self, but for the most part, he's just been a good to above-average NFL quarterback. But he's not the superhero he was before injuring the knee.
Some of it may be age. Some of it may be the millions he's earned over the years. But he's not the same.
Jon
Say, this is nice.
Re: The 2013 New England Patriots
Will the fact that Brady has no one to throw to who isn't shortish (still taller than me, of course) and white finally force Belichick to stop trading down in the draft?
I blame your density. Again.mookie is just mad cause his club was gonna have a SB party with free food for kids!! now that brady choked it away mookie will have to go to the store and buy **** for home
Will the fact that Brady has no one to throw to who isn't shortish (still taller than me, of course) and white finally force Belichick to stop trading down in the draft?
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Re: The 2013 New England Patriots
I appreciate all Brady has done, but there's too many rumpswabbers for him in the media and amongst the fans. Its getting to be like talking to BC fans about Doug Flutie's NFL career. Its like, are you watching the same game as I am?
Brady cost the team 10 points when he overthrew 2 wide open receivers. One to Edelman that was a TD, the other to Collie before the end of the half that should have led to a FG. Its a much different game if he hits those, because now Denver has to respect the deep pass a lot more.
Fact is Brady has not played a good game in the playoffs vs a good team since the 2006 AFC championship, a game they lost but he put up 31 points in so no fault of his. He was terrible in both Super Bowls. He was terrible in both AFC championships that they won (2007 vs San Diego who had LT out and Rivers playing on a broken leg, 2011 vs Baltimore). He was terrible in both AFC championships that they've lost since then.
Look, I like the guy, but its time to admit that he can no longer be relied upon to win tough games against really good teams. They need to do with him what the Broncos did with Elway at the end of his career, which was not make him so much the focal point of the offense.
Having said that, the Patriots should be really good next year provided Belichick doesn't mismanage his free agent signings once again. Bring back Talib despite his injuries because the pass D absolutely falls apart without him and their ability to find a CB in the draft given past history is non-existent. I'd also see if Tony Gonzales wants to give it one more ride as the opposite to Gronk. Keep the Blount-Ridley combo as well.
On D with Wilfork and Mayo returning and the emergence of Collins they should be pretty good, provided Talib comes back. I'd like to see a better corner on the other side and a better safety than Gregory but that's asking a lot from the draft.
I appreciate all Brady has done, but there's too many rumpswabbers for him in the media and amongst the fans. Its getting to be like talking to BC fans about Doug Flutie's NFL career. Its like, are you watching the same game as I am?
Brady cost the team 10 points when he overthrew 2 wide open receivers. One to Edelman that was a TD, the other to Collie before the end of the half that should have led to a FG. Its a much different game if he hits those, because now Denver has to respect the deep pass a lot more.
Fact is Brady has not played a good game in the playoffs vs a good team since the 2006 AFC championship, a game they lost but he put up 31 points in so no fault of his. He was terrible in both Super Bowls. He was terrible in both AFC championships that they won (2007 vs San Diego who had LT out and Rivers playing on a broken leg, 2011 vs Baltimore). He was terrible in both AFC championships that they've lost since then.
Look, I like the guy, but its time to admit that he can no longer be relied upon to win tough games against really good teams. They need to do with him what the Broncos did with Elway at the end of his career, which was not make him so much the focal point of the offense.
Having said that, the Patriots should be really good next year provided Belichick doesn't mismanage his free agent signings once again. Bring back Talib despite his injuries because the pass D absolutely falls apart without him and their ability to find a CB in the draft given past history is non-existent. I'd also see if Tony Gonzales wants to give it one more ride as the opposite to Gronk. Keep the Blount-Ridley combo as well.
On D with Wilfork and Mayo returning and the emergence of Collins they should be pretty good, provided Talib comes back. I'd like to see a better corner on the other side and a better safety than Gregory but that's asking a lot from the draft.
Re: The 2013 New England Patriots
i don't think there's anyone out there who thinks at this stage in his career brady can win these games by himself or torch good teams up and down the field. that is exactly why they need more weapons on offense. the difference between what manning has and what brady has right now is ridiculous. they also need to keep improving the defense. when your defense forces a punt on the first possession of the game and that's it...you're in trouble. didn't force any turnovers, no sacks (barely even touched manning at all)...didn't do anything all game long. like previous playoff defeats, it was a collective failure on both sides of the ball including brady.
i don't think there's anyone out there who thinks at this stage in his career brady can win these games by himself or torch good teams up and down the field. that is exactly why they need more weapons on offense. the difference between what manning has and what brady has right now is ridiculous. they also need to keep improving the defense. when your defense forces a punt on the first possession of the game and that's it...you're in trouble. didn't force any turnovers, no sacks (barely even touched manning at all)...didn't do anything all game long. like previous playoff defeats, it was a collective failure on both sides of the ball including brady.
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: The 2013 New England Patriots
I thought Dennard was pretty good until he got hurt, Talib hasn't look good since whenever he injured his hip.
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: The 2013 New England Patriots
If he costs more than a 6 pack of Coke he probably isn't coming to Foxborough
If he costs more than a 6 pack of Coke he probably isn't coming to Foxborough
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
krafty bob don't spend no money
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: The 2013 New England Patriots
After tonight's smackdown of the latest "greatest offense of all time" by the best defense in its own time ... do you really think the Pats' problem is needing "more weapons on offense"? If Patriots fans were 100% honest with themselves, I think you would all admit the Super Bowl victories early in Brady's career had a LOT to do with their defense - especially in the breakthrough 2001 win over the Rams, who (not too surprisingly) were then deemed the "Greatest Show on Turf", had won the Super Bowl two seasons previously, and entered the game as huge favorites. When the shoe was on the other foot six seasons later, then it was time for the next "greatest offense in the history of the game" - this time with Brady at the controls - to lose to the best defense of its time.
It's funny ... Belichick made his bones a LONG time ago with a lot of help from Lawrence Taylor, and his early success in New England was largely due to a better-than-average defense with smart playmakers all over the place. Then at some point, it seems like he fell in love with a "fantasy football" offense-first mindset, and the playoff success they used to enjoy has gone out the window since. Why he felt the need to move away from a reliance on his defense for post-season success ... your guess is as good as mine.
Once upon a time, there were a lot of very smart people who came up with the saying that "defense wins championships". The league keeps changing the rules to help the offense ... but guess what? Defense STILL wins championships. Seattle 43 Denver 8.
I think some of you folks would see this a whole lot more clearly if New England wasn't in such a hopelessly weak division, where the Pats pretty much clinch the division by sometime in late October. There's a lot of meaningless games - and there's a HUGE difference between playing for your playoff life, and playing for a bye and/or home field, which is what November/December basically becomes in Foxborough. So suddenly the Patriots hit the playoffs, teams are battle-hardened and ready, and the Pats are ... well, kinda soft. And this is a sport that (even more so than in hockey) you cannot expect to have success at the highest level unless you are mentally and physically tough. So the Patriots lose, and some folks wonder why? And it happens again ... and again ... and again.
Living in this area ... I agree with Rover's opening paragraph that Brady (and honestly even more so Belichick) gets a pass, and is rated way too high historically by the locals. It's been about a decade since they won anything. I understand, those two guys are revered for the things they accomplished back then in New England. Even I was the first on my block to vouch for Brady over Bledsoe, and I'm not even a Pats' fan. But there should be some tough questions being asked now, which are WAY overdue. The idea that both of these guys are the "best ever" in Patriots' history is unassailable; the idea that either is the "best ever" in NFL history is laughable. JMHO.
After tonight's smackdown of the latest "greatest offense of all time" by the best defense in its own time ... do you really think the Pats' problem is needing "more weapons on offense"? If Patriots fans were 100% honest with themselves, I think you would all admit the Super Bowl victories early in Brady's career had a LOT to do with their defense - especially in the breakthrough 2001 win over the Rams, who (not too surprisingly) were then deemed the "Greatest Show on Turf", had won the Super Bowl two seasons previously, and entered the game as huge favorites. When the shoe was on the other foot six seasons later, then it was time for the next "greatest offense in the history of the game" - this time with Brady at the controls - to lose to the best defense of its time.
It's funny ... Belichick made his bones a LONG time ago with a lot of help from Lawrence Taylor, and his early success in New England was largely due to a better-than-average defense with smart playmakers all over the place. Then at some point, it seems like he fell in love with a "fantasy football" offense-first mindset, and the playoff success they used to enjoy has gone out the window since. Why he felt the need to move away from a reliance on his defense for post-season success ... your guess is as good as mine.
Once upon a time, there were a lot of very smart people who came up with the saying that "defense wins championships". The league keeps changing the rules to help the offense ... but guess what? Defense STILL wins championships. Seattle 43 Denver 8.
I think some of you folks would see this a whole lot more clearly if New England wasn't in such a hopelessly weak division, where the Pats pretty much clinch the division by sometime in late October. There's a lot of meaningless games - and there's a HUGE difference between playing for your playoff life, and playing for a bye and/or home field, which is what November/December basically becomes in Foxborough. So suddenly the Patriots hit the playoffs, teams are battle-hardened and ready, and the Pats are ... well, kinda soft. And this is a sport that (even more so than in hockey) you cannot expect to have success at the highest level unless you are mentally and physically tough. So the Patriots lose, and some folks wonder why? And it happens again ... and again ... and again.
Living in this area ... I agree with Rover's opening paragraph that Brady (and honestly even more so Belichick) gets a pass, and is rated way too high historically by the locals. It's been about a decade since they won anything. I understand, those two guys are revered for the things they accomplished back then in New England. Even I was the first on my block to vouch for Brady over Bledsoe, and I'm not even a Pats' fan. But there should be some tough questions being asked now, which are WAY overdue. The idea that both of these guys are the "best ever" in Patriots' history is unassailable; the idea that either is the "best ever" in NFL history is laughable. JMHO.
BCeagle
Registered User
Re: The 2013 New England Patriots
I think Brady can win with a balanced team despite his age, but I think the Krafts and this organization have gone too money conscious to come up with a roster that can compete for the SB. As a season ticket holder, I have seen them blow SBs chances and this season with a injured and depleted roster and with too many rookies as wideouts and no depth on offense and on defense, they just were not good enough to even beat Denver.
Sure give them credit for what they accomplished with what they had but I never felt they were good enough to win it all after losing what they had from the year before and for years now they have traded away their high picks and not resign their stars for whatever reason. money mostly.
How long has it been since they had a good rushing defense to put pressure on the opposing QB ? They have too many holes and they tend to fill them with cheap free agents and players cut from other teams.
I like Amendola but everyone knew he was injury prone, yet they signed him anyway to appease us when they let Welker go over personality conflicts with the coach it seems. You can listen to all you want to the Pats spin but they never wanted him back for whatever reason. The offense struggled and then got better with the running game in place and the passing numbers reflect Brady's struggles plus the fact he is older and getting less efficient with the new personnel he had to work with.
BB and the Krafts Patriot way, no longer works and is a myth. They have convenient excuses but they knew Hernandez was gone and Gronk needed more time to get healthy before the season started. Yet they really did nothing and went with this roster anyway and then the injuries showed how weak this roster is and how vulnerable they were on both sides of the line.
They're like the Jacobs, more concern for the profits than putting the best team on the field possible. Sure they have some high salary players but not enough to win the big one anymore.
I think Brady can win with a balanced team despite his age, but I think the Krafts and this organization have gone too money conscious to come up with a roster that can compete for the SB. As a season ticket holder, I have seen them blow SBs chances and this season with a injured and depleted roster and with too many rookies as wideouts and no depth on offense and on defense, they just were not good enough to even beat Denver.
Sure give them credit for what they accomplished with what they had but I never felt they were good enough to win it all after losing what they had from the year before and for years now they have traded away their high picks and not resign their stars for whatever reason. money mostly.
How long has it been since they had a good rushing defense to put pressure on the opposing QB ? They have too many holes and they tend to fill them with cheap free agents and players cut from other teams.
I like Amendola but everyone knew he was injury prone, yet they signed him anyway to appease us when they let Welker go over personality conflicts with the coach it seems. You can listen to all you want to the Pats spin but they never wanted him back for whatever reason. The offense struggled and then got better with the running game in place and the passing numbers reflect Brady's struggles plus the fact he is older and getting less efficient with the new personnel he had to work with.
BB and the Krafts Patriot way, no longer works and is a myth. They have convenient excuses but they knew Hernandez was gone and Gronk needed more time to get healthy before the season started. Yet they really did nothing and went with this roster anyway and then the injuries showed how weak this roster is and how vulnerable they were on both sides of the line.
They're like the Jacobs, more concern for the profits than putting the best team on the field possible. Sure they have some high salary players but not enough to win the big one anymore.
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