The 2011 New England Patriots

[Tom Morris]

Re: The 2011 New England Patriots

Can somebody please give me a play by play on that last Buffalo drive? I was watching at a sports bar and i had no sound - so i still dont fully understand the last sequence. Thanks!

 

[Rover]

Re: The 2011 New England Patriots

This game is all on Brady. Don't like the D, but if he cuts his picks in half (and they were all his fault) we win the game going away. At least two of those happened when the Pats were driving for a score. One other got returned to the one yard line. Having said that, everybody gets a mulligan once in awhile and I'm thinking he's got it out of his system (I hope - last year his atrocious game happened in the playoffs).

A couple of other thoughts:

1) McCourty still looks terrible, and he's the #1 problem on the D IMHO. A lot of people will blame the pass rush, but every QB we've seen this year takes three steps back and passes. There's no time to get pressure unless someone whiffs on their block. The reason for this quick release is the #1 target is always open, and that's generally McCourty's man as he defends the opponent's top receiver. Bodden isn't any better in this regard. I'll never understand face guarding a guy in the end zone. He's got nowhere else to run. Turn around and find the ball.

2) I'm giving Ochocinco 2 more games before I start calling for Moss. He looks like Joey Galloway back there and the team doesn't have all year for him to get it together.

3) The most bothersome thing is that the D has talent. They're just way underachieving for some reason.

 

[MountieBoyOz]

Re: The 2011 New England Patriots

1) McCourty still looks terrible, and he's the #1 problem on the D IMHO. A lot of people will blame the pass rush, but every QB we've seen this year takes three steps back and passes. There's no time to get pressure unless someone whiffs on their block. The reason for this quick release is the #1 target is always open, and that's generally McCourty's man as he defends the opponent's top receiver. Bodden isn't any better in this regard. I'll never understand face guarding a guy in the end zone. He's got nowhere else to run. Turn around and find the ball.

In the post game remarks, Fitzpatrick and Gailey said that they saw something and started to exploit that side of the field he was on. I do agree that if Brady cuts his picks to 2, then they win. However, two of those picks weren't his fault.

 

[bostonewe]

Re: The 2011 New England Patriots

Stupid playcalling on that last drive, Ocho with the drop, taking WAY too much time to score, blowing that timeout, porous defense, not letting Buffalo score that TD. STUPID, STUPID PLAY.

What happened with that 2nd timeout in the 4th? Was Bill trying to get time put back on the clock and thought they'd review it more if he took a time out? I was totally confused there.

Tough game to watch yesterday (particularly with a big Pats fan). Ocho is done for me; I'll be dropping him from my fantasy team this week. For whatever reason, he doesn't have it with this team. Thought at least 1 INT was Brady just forcing the ball in a place where there was no chance his player would be able to make the catch. I wasn't that impressed with Buffalo's D (Gronk had some plays where no one was near him, as did Welker), but Pats D looked just as bad.

 

[CLS]

Re: The 2011 New England Patriots

What happened with that 2nd timeout in the 4th? Was Bill trying to get time put back on the clock and thought they'd review it more if he took a time out? I was totally confused there.

. . . .

The way I understand it is this: Since the call on the field was overturned (which of course it was), the clock would have started running immediately (or perhaps more accurately, would never have stopped which is what would have happened if the correct call had been made in the first place). So rather than letting the clock run, Belichick called a time out immediately.

I was really confused also. It appeared to me that they called the time out because Belichick was *****ing, and that there might be some rule that said if you continue to argue past a certain point, that you got charged with a time out.

 

[walrus]

Re: The 2011 New England Patriots

If Oakland can put up 31 on the Jets, can they put up 50 on the Pats?

Ocho let that D man inside for one INT, not surprised. Ocho is done for me also trade him for a washed up DBack. the dropped TD pass was what they show in the text books for a perfect pass, right in the chest without breaking stride. He died right there

 

[Jason A]

Re: The 2011 New England Patriots

So I decided not to overreact like I usually do, but it's Thursday night and this thing is still bugging the hell out of me. And with no Red Sox to kick around, I might as well tackle this. What stands out to me four days later is that Brady's four interceptions were all on first down, they were all in situations where NE led or was tied (situations: NE up 14, NE up 11, NE up 7, and NE tied), and two of the four were in Buffalo territory.

So it wasn't the case of a QB feeling the pressure to force something to extend a drive on third-and-long or desperately pushing it downfield to try to mount a comeback. It was simply a complete lack of game management from the quarterback position -- the same game management that once made Brady the most reliable winner at QB since Joe Montana.

And it's not just Brady; it's a philosophical change the NE coaching staff has made based on the NFL's evolution to become offense-dominant. The goal of the NE offense is now to score seven points every time they have the ball, regardless of the situation. I don't necessarily think that's winning football, and game management is still important, even today, but I don't coach the team, and to be fair they do win almost every week. I just think when your $18 million quarterback throws four first-down INTs and a majority of the media blame the defense for the loss, something is wrong with the way people are analyzing the game. But yeah, the D does need to improve a lot. Ninety-nine yards in three plays? Ugh.

DNP at practice today were Hernandez, Haynesworth, Vollmer, and Wright.

So how much longer does 85 get? As long as Taylor Price is injured, maybe? Or is he here and we're stuck with him for the year? I mean, he COULD catch on -- I wouldn't rule it out. But he looks awful.

 

[Rover]

Re: The 2011 New England Patriots

My take on the O is that they should put up big points if they can, and that they would have beaten Buffalo by two touchdowns if Brady didn't throw a few ill advised picks. I wouldn't ever expect anybody to blame him for a loss at this point in his career as he seems to have lifetime immunity from the press and the fans.

Regarding Ochocinco, as I said before he has two more games and they should be calling Moss. If Price was any good I think he'd be on the field by now. I'm done with excuses for the O. He needs to get open or find another team.

 

[Jason A]

Re: The 2011 New England Patriots

Price has been hurt ever since the first preseason game, IIRC. He has been at practice, but he's been limited with a hamstring injury.

To expand a bit on my point, obviously they're going to put the ball in Brady's hands, and that's fine by me. But two situations just jump right out at me as cases where in the past the team's philosophy would've been to manage the game, not race for the fastest additional seven points:

(1) Pats up 21-7, 1st-and-10 at the Buffalo 13 with 1:10 left in the first half. Defense has shut down Buffalo for most of the first half but has just allowed a 96-yard drive for the Bills' first score, and Buffalo gets the ball to start the second half. In the past they'd have wanted two things: (1) to get points and (2) not to give the ball back to Buffalo. So maybe we get one or two runs there to milk the clock, and the defense rests. Instead, Brady throws an INT on first down -- yeah, the pass was tipped but it was not a great throw. RESULT: Quick Bills FG drive, cutting the lead to 11.

(2) Pats up 24-17, 1st-and-10 at the Buffalo 23 with 11:30 left in the game. NE has just run three consecutive times for 31 yards and is matriculating down the field. A FG gives you a two-score lead. The defense has just forced back-to-back three-and-outs, giving up a total of 10 yards in six plays. Again, the goal should be twofold: get points to take a two-score lead and protect the D. Instead, Brady throws toward the endzone on first down to a covered Gronkowski. RESULT: INT, followed by a quick Bills TD drive, tying the game. (Brady's next pass on the ensuing drive is also intercepted and run back for a touchdown.)

I guess the dynamic at play is probably almost a circular sort of logic, if that's the right way to put it: The defense used to be good, so the offense could manage the game and protect the D. Now the D is seen as bad, so the offense needs to put up pinball numbers, but of course that means they're not protecting the D at times. But you could argue that it isn't the good defense that needs protection; it's the bad or struggling defense, which is what they seem to have now. And the current approach really exposes the defense at times. I don't know, it's not like I want the offense settling for field goals all the time, so maybe I want the best of both worlds here. And of course hindsight is 20/20 too.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 2011 New England Patriots

Anyone seen Ochocinco today? He did make the flight to Oakland?

 

[walrus]

Re: The 2011 New England Patriots

what happened to Mayo?

 

[joecct]

Re: The 2011 New England Patriots

what happened to Mayo?

He got run over by Ham.

I heard knee on the post game show.

 

[Jason A]

Re: The 2011 New England Patriots

I'm reading 4-6 weeks on Mayo, but nothing's official yet.

 

[J.D.]

Re: The 2011 New England Patriots

A couple things...

1. Ridley needs more touches. Too explosive not to give him the ball. I like Green-Ellis, but there's quite a difference when you compare the two.
2. This defense is just so frustrating and it's all on BB. He WAS a defensive genius (when he had great players I guess), but this is going on three years with no significant improvement. Secondary looks terrible mostly as a result of not being able to get to the QB.

I just can't see this team winning a championship with this defense.

 

[walrus]

Re: The 2011 New England Patriots

I just can't see this team winning a championship with this defense.

Be lucky to win a playoff game, anyone can score at will on them at times. Brady has to keep the other teams D on the field. I don't watch much of the game yesterday but did the Dline ever touch Campbell?

I like Ridley also but the law firm is playing pretty well also, there is room for both which puts Woodhead out to pasture

One good thing about yesterday, Bills and Jets lose

 

[J.D.]

Re: The 2011 New England Patriots

Can't remember Campbell being pressured as usual. I'll go out on a limb and say the Pats come nowhere near Sanchez. I think there'd still be a spot for Woodhead...just might mean the end of Kevin Faulk.

 

[J.D.]

Re: The 2011 New England Patriots

I was really confused also. It appeared to me that they called the time out because Belichick was *****ing, and that there might be some rule that said if you continue to argue past a certain point, that you got charged with a time out.

This is what I thought happened watching it LIVE--and I thought that's what the announcers said.

This game is all on Brady. Don't like the D, but if he cuts his picks in half (and they were all his fault) we win the game going away. At least two of those happened when the Pats were driving for a score. One other got returned to the one yard line. Having said that, everybody gets a mulligan once in awhile and I'm thinking he's got it out of his system (I hope - last year his atrocious game happened in the playoffs).

A couple of other thoughts:

1) McCourty still looks terrible, and he's the #1 problem on the D IMHO. A lot of people will blame the pass rush, but every QB we've seen this year takes three steps back and passes. There's no time to get pressure unless someone whiffs on their block. The reason for this quick release is the #1 target is always open, and that's generally McCourty's man as he defends the opponent's top receiver. Bodden isn't any better in this regard. I'll never understand face guarding a guy in the end zone. He's got nowhere else to run. Turn around and find the ball.

2) I'm giving Ochocinco 2 more games before I start calling for Moss. He looks like Joey Galloway back there and the team doesn't have all year for him to get it together.

3) The most bothersome thing is that the D has talent. They're just way underachieving for some reason.

Well, I'm not just doing this to be a pain, but I disagree with all of this. If Brady isn't perfect, they can't beat good teams. That's a problem. Your team shouldn't be constructed that way. When he isn't perfect and throws an interception, the defense is completely incapable of standing up and pulling their weight. Ya, one went for six the other way, but I don't remember another being returned to the one yard line. The offense still did more than enough in that game for the team to win--if there was a competent defense on the other side.

#1 problem is the lack of pass rush. Any secondary will look worse than it is when you can't get to the QB--ever. I haven't noticed that opposing QBs are getting rid of the ball immediately every drop back. I think people would pick up on that. I'm certainly not a coach, but face guarding at least helps you know where the guy is. I really think playing corner is the toughest position in this league.

Moss is not the answer. Maybe Ochocinco isn't either, but please, don't bring back Moss.

The D has some talent, Wilfork, Mayo, McCourty, Chung--but not enough impact players.

My take on the O is that they should put up big points if they can, and that they would have beaten Buffalo by two touchdowns if Brady didn't throw a few ill advised picks. I wouldn't ever expect anybody to blame him for a loss at this point in his career as he seems to have lifetime immunity from the press and the fans.

I think Brady's gotten plenty of criticism for the last couple playoff losses, no? That's what I've heard anyway.

 

[Jason A]

Re: The 2011 New England Patriots

this is going on three years with no significant improvement

This is the most troubling aspect of it. They've changed personnel (pretty much everybody) in that time and the results seem to be the same. Play a 3-4 with run-stoppers upfront, play a 4-3 with pass-rushers upfront, play soft zone in the secondary, play man-to-man in the secondary . . . in the end they don't seem to be able to figure it out.

 

[Rover]

Re: The 2011 New England Patriots

Secondary is still the problem here. If they were decent at the very least you'd see a coverage sack once in awhile. Receivers aren't being touched at the line and McCourty is playing 10 yards behind his guy. That's the Delthea O'Neil method and it doesn't work. Once again he was torched in this game. Does Wilfork lead the team in INT's now?

I do agree that this is ultimately on Belichick. Safeties not named Chung have been terrible. No problem turfing Meriweather but why Sanders also? Its a passing league after all. Also would it kill the defense to blitz once in awhile? Since the corners can't cover anyway, how about sending them after the QB?

All these years of trading picks or using them for TE's and OT's are coming home to roost. I don't care how much they have to give up to trade up. The team absolutely needs to draft the top corner or pass rusher coming out of school next year. There is no position on the offense that requires anything more than a back end of the draft pick.

 

[Jason A]

Re: The 2011 New England Patriots

Ganggreen.com is a hoot today:

My Plan

I've given this a lot of thought since I woke up. Here it is.

#1 Fire Schotty because he sucks so bad.

#2 Hire Mike Heimerdinger. Yeah Yeah, I know he's dead, but hear me out.

#3 With a dead guy calling plays, we have to take a knee every offensive snap. Instead of watching Greene slam into the pile for a three yard loss or Sanchez run for his life and then throw it 8 feet behind a receiver, we will now limit our losses to a single yard per play. In fact, our time of possession would actually increase because the clock would keep running without all of those ugly incompletions!

#4 More importantly, we won't turn the ball over for 3 defensive TDs like we did last night. It's the quintessential ball control offense.

#5 Using this strategy, we would've won 17-13. How does 3-1 sound right about now?

Hire Heimerdinger!

Big game coming up this weekend. Jets could be back tied for first and the Pats could be in third with two AFCE losses. Or New England could really put the NYJs in some trouble at 2-3.