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The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!

Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!

dx,

No it isnt a joke...he is saying even the most noble are willing to do very immoral things. It all comes down to what it means to you.

Well I may be biased, given I used to drive an F-150, but I really don't think most normal folks would consider driving such a pickup truck as being a very immoral thing to do.
 
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!

Well I may be biased, given I used to drive an F-150, but I really don't think most normal folks would consider driving such a pickup truck as being a very immoral thing to do.

They would if they thought Ford's were the spawn of Satan like some of us do...especially the Jews he hated with such vitriol :p ;)

Although at least it wasn't a Volkswagon :eek: ;)
 
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!

I meant 350. I've rented 150's; they serve a purpose unrelated to the minute size of redneck genitalia.
 
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!

Interesting read. Thoughts?

Spending America Into Ruin

by Eric Margolis

One of history’s most important lessons is that politicians should never be given a free hand to borrow money to cover the costs of wars, overseas adventures, or military spending.

More empires have been brought down by reckless spending than by invaders. The late Soviet Union, which wrecked its economy by buying too many tanks, is the most recent example. Now, the United States appears headed in the same direction.

Even so, President Barack Obama calls the US $3.8 trillion budget he just sent to Congress a major step in restoring America’s economic health.

In fact, it’s another potent fix given to a sick patient deeply addicted to the dangerous drug of debt.

Washington’s deficit (the difference between spending and income from taxes) will reach a vertiginous $1.6 trillion this year. The huge sum will be borrowed, mostly from China and Japan, which the US already owes $1.5 trillion. The United States has put its fate in the hands of two nations who bear it little good will.

Debt service will cost Washington $250 billion, and may reach over a third of the total Federal budget within the next decade. Washington is still paying for past wars while considering starting a new one against Iran.

To understand the immensity of one trillion dollars, one would have had to start spending $1 million daily soon after Rome was founded and continue for 2,738 years until today.

Obama’s total proposed annual military budget is nearly $1 trillion. This includes Pentagon spending of $880 billion. Add secret "black programs" (about $70 billion); military aid to foreign nations like Egypt, Israel and Pakistan (including bribes); 225,000 military "contractors" (mercenaries and workers); and veteran’s costs. Add $75 billion (nearly 2.5 times France’s total defense budget) for 16 poorly functioning intelligence agencies with 200,000 employees who keep tripping over one another.

The Afghanistan and Iraq wars ($1 trillion so far) will cost $200–250 billion more this year, including hidden and indirect expenses. Obama’s Afghan "surge" of 30,000 new troops will cost an additional $33 billion – more than Germany’s total defense budget.

These figures do not account for wear and tear on US military equipment, costs of reconfiguring the US military to wage colonial wars in the Third World, or the cost of replacing worn-out equipment. Pentagon bookkeeping is about as flexible as Enron’s bookkeeping.

No wonder US defense stocks rose after Peace Laureate Obama’s "austerity" budget.

Military and intelligence spending relentlessly increase as the official unemployment figure hovers near 10% and the economy bleeds red ink. Some estimates put real unemployment at over 20%.

America has become the Sick Man of the Western World, an economic cripple like the defunct Ottoman Empire whose inept financial management was legendary.

The Pentagon colossus now accounts for half of total world military spending. Add America’s rich NATO allies and Japan, and the figure reaches 75%.

China and Russia combined spend only a paltry 10% of US on defense.

There are 750 US military bases in 50 nations and 255,000 service members stationed abroad, 116,000 in Europe, nearly 100,000 in Japan and South Korea. President George W. Bush doubled military spending – much of which accrues to Republican states – to wage his faux war on terror.

Military spending gobbles up 19% of federal spending and at least 44% of tax revenues. America is on a permanent war footing. Many Americans believe the president’s primary role is as a war leader rather than chief executive of the republic.

Like Bush, President Barack Obama is paying for America’s wars through supplemental authorizations – i.e. putting them on the nation’s already maxed-out credit card. Wage war now – pay later. Future generations will be stuck with the bill.

This presidential and congressional jiggery-pokery is the height of public dishonesty.

America’s wars ought to be paid for through taxes, not bookkeeping fraud. If US taxpayers had to actually pay for the Afghan and Iraq wars, these conflicts would end in short order.

America needs a fair, honest war tax. But hardly any politicians – save the courageous and honest Rep. Ron Paul – dare admit this hard truth.

The US has clearly reached the point of imperial overreach. Military spending and debt servicing are cannibalizing the US economy, the real basis of its world power. Besides the late USSR, the US also increasingly resembles the dying British Empire in 1945, crushed by immense debts incurred to wage WWII, unable to continue financing or defending the imperium, yet still imbued with imperial pretensions.

It is increasingly clear the president is either not in control of America’s runaway military juggernaut, or working with it.

Sixty years ago, the great President Dwight Eisenhower, whose portrait I keep by my desk, warned Americans to beware of the military-industrial complex. Six decades later, partisans of permanent war, fear-mongering, and world domination have joined Wall Street’s money lenders to put America into thrall.

Increasing numbers of Americans are rightly outraged and fearful of runaway deficits. But many do not understand their political leaders are also spending their nation into ruin through unnecessary foreign wars and a vainglorious attempt to control much of the globe – what neocons call "full spectrum dominance" – using the canard of terrorism to justify an imperial policy that often closely resembles that of the old British Empire.

If Obama were really serious about restoring America’s economic health, he would demand military spending be slashed, quickly end the Iraq and Afghan wars, and break up the nation’s five giant Frankenbanks that now control 40% of all deposits.

But the president won’t, of course, and neither will Congress. They would see the nation go over the financial falls rather than change course.

February 9, 2010
 
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!

Like Bush, President Barack Obama is paying for America’s wars through supplemental authorizations – i.e. putting them on the nation’s already maxed-out credit card. Wage war now – pay later. Future generations will be stuck with the bill.

This presidential and congressional jiggery-pokery is the height of public dishonesty.

America’s wars ought to be paid for through taxes, not bookkeeping fraud. If US taxpayers had to actually pay for the Afghan and Iraq wars, these conflicts would end in short order.

America needs a fair, honest war tax. But hardly any politicians – save the courageous and honest Rep. Ron Paul – dare admit this hard truth

I totally agree with this part of the piece. It won't change though. Visa or Mastercard Mr. President?
 
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!

I totally agree with this part of the piece. It won't change though. Visa or Mastercard Mr. President?

I feel the same way. And the first sentence in what you quoted cuts right through all the partisan BS. It doesn't matter which party has their man in office, the government is spending recklessly and it shows no signs of stopping anytime soon.
 
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!

It would be difficult for modern countries to wage war without central banks and fiat money.
 
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!

I meant 350. I've rented 150's; they serve a purpose unrelated to the minute size of redneck genitalia.

TF, you don't have a clue
 
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!

Interesting read. Thoughts?

Funadmentally... liberals don't want to give up on the social democracy... conservatives don't want to give up on believing that a massively strong defense is needed. We can't go head long into either and the fact that taxes are such a strong issue means that the people don't agree on which school of thought is right and proper on the issue. The desire to pay taxes can be viewed as a measure of trust to spend that money in regards to the desires of the people.

Defense has become an overwhelming issue but a lot of that is because we don't want to let go of the idea that we can save the world and form it in a positive democratic image... this has been both a conservative and liberal position though as the anti-war philosophy creeps larger and larger within the democratic party ranks this idea has been fading out from the democrats. In general its a good quality in people but we can't afford to do it.

That being said, that shouldn't spare the social democracy sacred cow from being slaughtered which is what most of these military cost articles come down to... because if you are going to cut from somewhere you have to choose where to do it from. That all being said, we have to find a way to pare down our involvement but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking into ways to project power... the world still isn't nice out there and too much can change in the time it takes to adapt.
 
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!

Funadmentally... liberals don't want to give up on the social democracy... conservatives don't want to give up on believing that a massively strong defense is needed. We can't go head long into either and the fact that taxes are such a strong issue means that the people don't agree on which school of thought is right and proper on the issue. The desire to pay taxes can be viewed as a measure of trust to spend that money in regards to the desires of the people.

Defense has become an overwhelming issue but a lot of that is because we don't want to let go of the idea that we can save the world and form it in a positive democratic image... this has been both a conservative and liberal position though as the anti-war philosophy creeps larger and larger within the democratic party ranks this idea has been fading out from the democrats. In general its a good quality in people but we can't afford to do it.

That being said, that shouldn't spare the social democracy sacred cow from being slaughtered which is what most of these military cost articles come down to... because if you are going to cut from somewhere you have to choose where to do it from. That all being said, we have to find a way to pare down our involvement but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking into ways to project power... the world still isn't nice out there and too much can change in the time it takes to adapt.

You raise some good points, which I agree with for the most part.

I would point out however that many conservatives, myself included, are appalled at the size of out military industrial complex.

While a strong defense is indeed needed, the fact that we have hundreds (I believe the number is close to 700) of bases scattered around the world is absurd. That we have some 20 intelligence agencies (including intelligence services within each branch of the military) that spend more time stepping on each others toes then actually doing their jobs needs to be addressed. There are issues of duplicated jobs, equipment, and services within the military that would become unnecessary with more inter-service cooperation. And I could go on and on.

I'm not so concerned with the number of men and women serving as I am at how spread out they are, how inefficient things often run (my sister, a Marine, has some scary stories about military inefficiency), how much of our military is stationed overseas even in peace time, and how permanent things that were meant to be temporary have become.
 
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!

For starters, there isn't a logical reason for there to be a single American soldier in Europe outside whatever leftovers are in the Balkans. The EU matches us in economy and manpower. Tell them to stop hiding behind our shield while they spend all their cash on social projects. Those great national health care programs in Europe are paid in our blood and gold. Maybe we don't want national health care here. Maybe we do. But I sure as hell don't want to go broke as a nation so the French and Germans can get free everything.

It's not so much that we have troops overseas near hotspots, it's that when they cool down, we never leave.
 
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!

I meant 350. I've rented 150's; they serve a purpose unrelated to the minute size of redneck genitalia.

Whew... I for a second there I thought I was going crazy. The new 2011 F-150 with the V6 (keep reading) will get over 340 HP and 340 ft-lb of torque all while getting 16/23 for fuel economy.

FMS... My mustang gets about 22-23 over a tank in the winter and isn't anywhere near that for horsepower or torque.
 
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!

Debt service will cost Washington $250 billion, and may reach over a third of the total Federal budget within the next decade. Washington is still paying for past wars while considering starting a new one against Iran.

I guess the interest we pay must have gone down since 2007. at that time we were paying $300billion in interest payments or around 3% rate. One reason why we couldn't inflate our way out of this mess, we'll be paying alot more interest on that $10Trillion + debt most of which is floated in 1-5 yr notes.

Security and defense is easy sell, locally all the politicians are for safety ie more police force, it doesn't matter the cost or how much police budget has increased in the last 5-10 years. we need more police (security) at any cost.

That's one reason why Republicans never go beyond attacking the federal governments waste and inefficiency (medi-welfare programs) and attack our military which is also run by the federal government.

I'm not even sure what congress is debating about medi-social security, it's gone negative from demographics and the recession so solution has to be either they raise the medi/ss (fica) tax or/and lower spending (death panel, freeze payments for care, stop pegging it to the inflation, limit the number by messing with the qualifing age/income level).

Back to NASA and and our space program. looks like in theory you could affect gravity.

84539main_warp23s.gif

This is a snap shot of how gravity and electromagnetism are known to be linked. In the formalism of general relativity this coupling is described in terms of how mass warps the spacetime against which electromagnetism is measured. In simple terms this has the consequence that gravity appears to bend light, red-shift light (the stretching squiggles), and slow time. These observations and the general relativistic formalism that describes them are experimentally supported.

Although gravity’s effects on electromagnetism and spacetime have been observed, the reverse possibility, of using electromagnetism to affect gravity, inertia, or spacetime is unknown.
 
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!

I guess the interest we pay must have gone down since 2007. at that time we were paying $300billion in interest payments or around 3% rate. One reason why we couldn't inflate our way out of this mess, we'll be paying alot more interest on that $10Trillion + debt most of which is floated in 1-5 yr notes.

You don't think we're going to be facing massive inflation sometime in the next few years?
 
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!

Good op-ed by Charles Krauthammer today on the end of the space age. You can read it on the WaPo or on www.Townhall.com.

Is the interest in the space program generational??? If you're a child of the Apollo programs, I'm guessin you're in favor if it. If you came of age during the space shuttle, no.

Just guessing.
 
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!

Good op-ed by Charles Krauthammer today on the end of the space age. You can read it on the WaPo or on www.Townhall.com.

Is the interest in the space program generational??? If you're a child of the Apollo programs, I'm guessin you're in favor if it. If you came of age during the space shuttle, no.

Just guessing.

I'm a child of the Space Shuttle age and I find it unfathomable that we're not doing more space exploration.
 
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!

I'm a child of the Space Shuttle age and I find it unfathomable that we're not doing more space exploration.

Agreed. Another science concession. It's sad and pathetic but I guess the good news is that we are the #1 military power on the globe. That's about all that's going to be left.
 
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!

I've always thought the space program was a nice thing to do, and especially in its early days was part and parcel of pushing science to keep up with/ahead of the Ruskies and all. That said, it's been awhile since I've seen anything compelling put forth that tells me there's a lot of stuff that these folks really need to be doing these days. I don't know NASA that well, but it's seemed like the agency has lost its sense of direction and purpose and at least in some ways has kind of looked around for purposes to continue and grow. Other than a few space shuttle things in the last couple decades, I don't think the public even knows about anything NASA does or would have much interest if they were told. Which is the fault of both the public and NASA.

While it's sad that it would take on a lesser role and all, it's one of many things that will likely have to be sacrificed if we are ever to return to fiscal sanity in this country. The hundreds of billions in interest we pay ever year could be going to pay for things like NASA, if those debts hadn't been incurred unwisely by the feds for the last 30+ years. A really sad state of affairs, but not suprising.
 
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!

And NASA should be like 50th on the list of things cut...it costs very little and there are tons of things killing the economy that could be cut first. Fiscal sanity has nothing to do with NASA and its $18 billion dollar budget. (which equals 2 months of the worthless wars we are fighting)
 
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