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The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!
- Thread starter joecct
- Start date
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!
Fine, cut NASA's funding as soon as BS projects like the Clean Coal initiatives get cut. NASA will go about earning its keep long before clean coal does.
Fine, cut NASA's funding as soon as BS projects like the Clean Coal initiatives get cut. NASA will go about earning its keep long before clean coal does.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!
I didnt say it would, I said it COULD...ya see there is a distinction there.
What do you think should be in the budget and how is it going to benefit us? Remember now apparently it needs to be deficit neutral which of course means nothing in the budget should be allowed.
I didnt say it would, I said it COULD...ya see there is a distinction there.
What do you think should be in the budget and how is it going to benefit us? Remember now apparently it needs to be deficit neutral which of course means nothing in the budget should be allowed.
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!
BTW, was it cost efffective to outfit explorations from Europe to the New World??
If I recall my history back in the day, some explorations failed, others succeeded for a bit and then died (or were wiped) out, and a few made it. The few that did make here in NA did pretty good for themselves -- of course the natives may object to that, but that's another thread.
The point I am trying to make is that humanity has (had??) been a risk taking species. If we want to continue a dominant species we need to continue to take risks in exploration - otherwise we go the way of the dodo.
BTW, was it cost efffective to outfit explorations from Europe to the New World??
If I recall my history back in the day, some explorations failed, others succeeded for a bit and then died (or were wiped) out, and a few made it. The few that did make here in NA did pretty good for themselves -- of course the natives may object to that, but that's another thread.
The point I am trying to make is that humanity has (had??) been a risk taking species. If we want to continue a dominant species we need to continue to take risks in exploration - otherwise we go the way of the dodo.
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!
And choosing to point a very conventional, well understood, technically and economically feasible mode of transportation (sailing ships) West instead of South is an entirely different proposition from sending expeditions to space. Not remotely comparable.
Yes.
False dichotomy. By what mechanism will our extinction result from not going to Mars (or the asteroids, or the moon or any other specific objective)?
And choosing to point a very conventional, well understood, technically and economically feasible mode of transportation (sailing ships) West instead of South is an entirely different proposition from sending expeditions to space. Not remotely comparable.
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!
Someone is going to come along and eat us?
Someone is going to come along and eat us?
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!
Didn't you see "V?"
Someone is going to come along and eat us?
Didn't you see "V?"
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!
No.
But I guess we better get heading to Mars so we can somehow avoid being eaten!
Didn't you see "V?"
No.
But I guess we better get heading to Mars so we can somehow avoid being eaten!
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!
More commentary on the budget, and the nation's financial status in general, from Money Morning:
http://moneymorning.com/2010/02/03/obama-deficit-2/
More commentary on the budget, and the nation's financial status in general, from Money Morning:
http://moneymorning.com/2010/02/03/obama-deficit-2/
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!
Laugh while you can, monkey boy.
Someone is going to come along and eat us?
Laugh while you can, monkey boy.
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!
There's not a distinction if astronomy research has shown that there's no viable energy sources within a reasonable distance of the planet. Would you also endorse underground exploration in attempts to find El Dorado and the Fountain of Youth? Hell, they could be there.
Not everything in the budget needs to be deficit neutral. It was just being pointed out that if the purpose of a mission is to find a cheaper source of energy/resources/etc., it should actually be...you know, cheaper. Not even necessarily immediately, but at any point in the future of human society.
There's not a distinction if astronomy research has shown that there's no viable energy sources within a reasonable distance of the planet. Would you also endorse underground exploration in attempts to find El Dorado and the Fountain of Youth? Hell, they could be there.
Not everything in the budget needs to be deficit neutral. It was just being pointed out that if the purpose of a mission is to find a cheaper source of energy/resources/etc., it should actually be...you know, cheaper. Not even necessarily immediately, but at any point in the future of human society.
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!
Frankly, new world exploration was funded by the quest for major economic gain. Folks figured out the world was round and went after an easier route to the east indies to save serious time and $$. As cool as NASA is, no such economic cost/benefit is in the offing.
Other exploration say the south pole was privately funded and largely for publicity and pride.
Frankly, new world exploration was funded by the quest for major economic gain. Folks figured out the world was round and went after an easier route to the east indies to save serious time and $$. As cool as NASA is, no such economic cost/benefit is in the offing.
Other exploration say the south pole was privately funded and largely for publicity and pride.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!
Fine, that wasnt even the crux of what I was saying, it was an offshoot, something that could happen by keeping NASA around and funded...I was not saying that was what the purpose of any of it was. sometimes, in the midst of doing other work, you make discoveries that you never really meant to that was what my point was.
But I am all for cutting funding to NASA now...right after we get rid of the real waste that is out there. How much money is the DOD earning us these days because between their nearly $700 billion general funding and the money spent to fund the wars I sure do hope they are at least giving us some money back to help cover the costs. Wait...
NASA is the red herring, something for Senators and Reps to throw out there as overfunded (nothing new, after the disaster of Apollo 1 NASA was nearly shut down by Mondale and his committee) when in reality I bet everyone in this thread could come up with 10-15 different departments or programs that are less beneficial and more wasteful than NASA. Since most people don't have any stake in it (our stuff good, your stuff BAD!) they will lap it up so they can get more pork thrown their way.
Fine, that wasnt even the crux of what I was saying, it was an offshoot, something that could happen by keeping NASA around and funded...I was not saying that was what the purpose of any of it was. sometimes, in the midst of doing other work, you make discoveries that you never really meant to that was what my point was.
But I am all for cutting funding to NASA now...right after we get rid of the real waste that is out there. How much money is the DOD earning us these days because between their nearly $700 billion general funding and the money spent to fund the wars I sure do hope they are at least giving us some money back to help cover the costs. Wait...
NASA is the red herring, something for Senators and Reps to throw out there as overfunded (nothing new, after the disaster of Apollo 1 NASA was nearly shut down by Mondale and his committee) when in reality I bet everyone in this thread could come up with 10-15 different departments or programs that are less beneficial and more wasteful than NASA. Since most people don't have any stake in it (our stuff good, your stuff BAD!) they will lap it up so they can get more pork thrown their way.
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!
Seriously. It's 18 billion dollars in a $1.3 trillion budget. 1.4% of the budget. Go pick on something else. Let those of us who still think exploration and expansion is a key to the human spirit have our little toy. Ask the Ming dynasty and their descendants for 500 years how turning inward and believing that everything worth looking for has been found worked out for them.
Seriously. It's 18 billion dollars in a $1.3 trillion budget. 1.4% of the budget. Go pick on something else. Let those of us who still think exploration and expansion is a key to the human spirit have our little toy. Ask the Ming dynasty and their descendants for 500 years how turning inward and believing that everything worth looking for has been found worked out for them.
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!
If everybody takes his pet 1.4% of the budget off the table, it will be a pretty meager meal. Especially given that debt interest, Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security are already off the table by definition.
Certainly. But the argument that was put forth almost immediately by Red Cloud, Kepler, and Blockski was that space exploration was worth it no matter the cost and they stopped just thiiiiis short of saying that continuing to explore was the morally right thing to do. I disagree with both of those.
If everybody takes his pet 1.4% of the budget off the table, it will be a pretty meager meal. Especially given that debt interest, Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security are already off the table by definition.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!
Maybe we can get the $65 billion back spent on the now worthless F-22 Raptor. That could pay for NASA 3 times over with change to spare!
Maybe we can get the $65 billion back spent on the now worthless F-22 Raptor. That could pay for NASA 3 times over with change to spare!
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!
Have you heard of astronomy? We can still explore the cosmos and pretty well determine there's nothing of particular value within a reasonable distance of earth without going there and seeing it ourselves.
Have you heard of astronomy? We can still explore the cosmos and pretty well determine there's nothing of particular value within a reasonable distance of earth without going there and seeing it ourselves.
Re: The 2011 Budget of the United State - Alice, you're not going to the moon!
I think it was a good decision to end the F-22 program, and that the decision was long overdue. The only reason it lasted this long is that the production was spread over 42 states and hundreds of Congressional districts. But just because you paid $2M for a $1M Ferrari doesn't mean that the car is "worthless" - you still have a $1M car sitting in your driveway.
Worthless? In what sense?Maybe we can get the $65 billion back spent on the now worthless F-22 Raptor. That could pay for NASA 3 times over with change to spare!
I think it was a good decision to end the F-22 program, and that the decision was long overdue. The only reason it lasted this long is that the production was spread over 42 states and hundreds of Congressional districts. But just because you paid $2M for a $1M Ferrari doesn't mean that the car is "worthless" - you still have a $1M car sitting in your driveway.