The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

I think it's another one of those things where you think people are pretty much the same from generation to generation to generation, and I tend to think that sometimes true, sometimes not.

That is probably the case, yeah. BTW I do agree with you that the values inculcated by society vary from generation to generation. I don't see a tremendous difference between the times and place in which I grew up (Long Island, 1970's) and today, but I also think we were a sort of vanguard with respect to the rest of the country both in good ways (don't beat up the kid next door because he's black or Italian or gay or indeed for any reason at all) and in bad ways (money's pretty loose so you don't have to hustle as much; spending a lot of time amusing oneself in various ways rather than working is accepted not only by peers but parents). Now a lot of the country has sub-urbanized and also matched the culture (or lack thereof) that we had.

I would rather there be more of a "pedestrian, values-oriented, social obligations-oriented" full court press in the schools and other public institutions the way at least theoretically it was back in the 50's and 60's (on the theory that "the sixties" as the Boomers masturbate over them didn't really start until around 1968). It makes the masses a little more hard-working and it gives the odd deviant something real to rebel against. Societies that instill conformity produce interesting non-conformists. Societies that respect non-conformity mostly just produce self-absorbed jerks.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Remember, school teachers who earn $50,000 a year are rich, but this guy is "struggling" to get by on $174,000.

<script type="text/javascript" src="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/jwplayer/jwplayer.js"></script><p style="clear:both;"><div style="height:320px;margin-left:20px;"><div id="containervideo">Loading video...</div></div></p><script type="text/javascript">jwplayer("containervideo").setup({players:[{type:"html5"},{type: "flash", src:"http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/jwplayer/player.swf"}], file: "http://s3.amazonaws.com/tpm-videos/duffy-final.mp4",image:"http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/jwplayer/preview.jpg",width: 480,height: 320})</script>

Latrell Sprewell feels for him.

GOP is trying to hide that video, get it off the Interweb.

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/86092/how-prolong-scandal-wisconsin-edition
http://current.com/news/93117295_wisconsin-gop-rep-im-struggling-on-my-174k-salary.htm
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...ape-be-pulled-from-the-internet.php?ref=fpblg

 

[BassAle]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

GOP is trying to hide that video, get it off the Interweb.

I guarantee that I have more debt than all of you.

And the republicans vote this guy in thinking he is going to help control spending and fix the budget mess? He can't even control his own spending.

his family ... is carrying between $250,000 and $500,000 in mortgage debt; between $50,000-$100,000 in student loans; between $15,000-$50,000 in credit card debt; and between $100,000-$250,000 in debt related to the family vacation home, a cabin not too far from his primary residence in Wisconsin

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

And the republicans vote this guy in thinking he is going to help control spending and fix the budget mess? He can't even control his own spending.

It's quite simple and elementary. He signed the "No New Taxes Pledge". That and abortion is all the Republican voting block cares about when they pull the lever.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

It's quite simple and elementary. He signed the "No New Taxes Pledge". That and abortion is all the Republican voting block cares about when they pull the lever.

You forgot teh gayz.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

You forgot teh gayz.

Yeah, the 3 G's are up there. BUT, the abortion laws that are being passed right now across the country along with the "No New Taxes" bit is the hot ticket.

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Sure, there's kids out there that work hard and find things to do. I just think that there's a lot less of them as a percentage than there used to be. When I was a kid, pretty much everyone had summer jobs and had to do stuff at home and all. I don't see that now. I think it's another one of those things where you think people are pretty much the same from generation to generation to generation, and I tend to think that sometimes true, sometimes not.

I would agree with this. I see parents all the time in Lil's social circle that over-schedule the kid and then say he doesn't have enough time to help around the house. Of course he is going to make the NHL, MBL or NBA so will not need the life skills to clean house, do laundry or other chores. The parents are also working FT to support the multiple activities, private lessons and all the required grooming to make the Major league of what ever and don't have enough time to cook a meal that doesn't come from a Fast Food joint and are sleep deprived from doing laundry til the wee hours because they are never home either with all the taxiing. Then there is the kid in Daycare from 7-6 a day who arrives home exhausted and unlikely to be very useful or capable of doing anything useful. <- cynicism at its max.

I know this isn't everyone but it is sure a lot of people we have run into.

... Societies that instill conformity produce interesting non-conformists. Societies that respect non-conformity mostly just produce self-absorbed jerks.

This

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Sure, there's kids out there that work hard and find things to do. I just think that there's a lot less of them as a percentage than there used to be. When I was a kid, pretty much everyone had summer jobs and had to do stuff at home and all. I don't see that now. I think it's another one of those things where you think people are pretty much the same from generation to generation to generation, and I tend to think that sometimes true, sometimes not.

I've read more than a few articles the past several years that indicate how hard it's become for kids to find jobs in the summer due to the economy. And because of the increased need for kids to fill their college applications with activity upon activity, many simply don't have the time during the school year to work. I remember having a summer job before my senior year, but that was about it except for a few football get togethers. I worked most of the school year, but only had football in the fall, track in the spring, student government and was on the commencment committee. Today that wouldn't cut it - kids need to do volunteer work, join this committee, that committee, etc, etc, etc.

And I see decent kid after decent kid in my neighborhood, none of which seem lazy nor disinclined to help their parents around the yard. I'm just not seeing this pervasive drop in "doing things" from the younger set that adults lament year after year after year.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

And I see decent kid after decent kid in my neighborhood, none of which seem lazy nor disinclined to help their parents around the yard. I'm just not seeing this pervasive drop in "doing things" from the younger set that adults lament year after year after year.

Neither do I. I see a lot of great kids is what I see.

 

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

So, do I have this right?

GOP asks for $32 billion in concessions in February. Dems say no. Dems now agree to $33 billion in cuts. GOP now says no?

Also, Tea Party idiots yell at Wisconsin Dems for shutting down one branch of their state government. Yet they are now cheering for the complete shutdown of the U.S. government?

Am I missing something, or has the derp been turned up to 11?

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

It should be fun to see how it plays out. Unfortunately a lot of the government cheese the TPers live on is exempt from the shutdown. It counts as "essential government service." So they get to call for sacrifice while not making any personal sacrifice.

Excellent training to become a Republican, actually.

It also won't touch a hair of operational approps for the wars. At least in the bad old days of kings and parliaments, when the money ran out the war had to stop.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

So, do I have this right?

GOP asks for $32 billion in concessions in February. Dems say no. Dems now agree to $33 billion in cuts. GOP now says no?

Also, Tea Party idiots yell at Wisconsin Dems for shutting down one branch of their state government. Yet they are now cheering for the complete shutdown of the U.S. government?

Am I missing something, or has the derp been turned up to 11?

100% correct.

Just wait until this passes and Ryan's budget comes up for debate. You haven't seen anything yet.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

The only way to do this right is for them to trade back and forth: the GOP gets a cut in social security and the Dems get a cut in the DOD; the GOP gets to gut the schools and the Dems get to gut corporate welfare, the GOP gets a cut in Medicare and the Dems get restoration of the Clinton tax structure.

Then each side can crow that it cut the "wasteful" spending of the other side and predict dire results unless the voters give them a sweep so they can restore the "vital" spending of their own side.

Quid pro quo is the coward's path to progress, but it beats lack of any progress.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Never happen. Ryan's big fix appears to be the complete dismantling of Medicare/Medicaid.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Never happen. Ryan's big fix appears to be the complete dismantling of Medicare/Medicaid.

Everything should be on the table. We'll see if he's serious when somebody calls his cuts and raises ending the wars and restoring a real progressive tax structure.

The Pauls might go for that, I doubt Ryan has the stones. Can you imagine the jaws dropping when that return got driven right down his throat?

The problem is neither party is remotely serious about actual fiscal responsibility -- they're just posturing with the same failed garbage they've been preaching since 2000 (the Dems) and 1978 (the GOP). And no third party can break the monopoly so they are totally safe to do so.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

The only table is the "cut taxes for the rich" table. Everything else is bluster and smoke.

And certainly some level of cutting is necessary. But Ryan's level of cutting goes far beyond what's needed to preserve those programs, and it does so in order to clear room for a very large, regressive tax cut. He is making a choice -- not just cut Medicare to save Medicare, but also to cut Medicare in order to cut taxes for the rich.

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/86270/the-achilles-heel-the-path-prosperity

 

[walrus]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Any budget cutting that doesn't involve the defense budget is a joke

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

The only table is the "cut taxes for the rich" table. Everything else is bluster and smoke.

Obviously that's how the GOP comes in; it's their meal ticket. But OTOH the most serious long-term threat for out of control debt on the budget is Social Security and Health Care costs, and I don't see any of our good guys willing to address that. I'm in full agreement with you that the right is merely the puppet of the wealthy and the left is trying to do the Right Thing, and that it blows that the other side is totally unserious about anything but feathering their beds, but... leading means leading, not just a rock fight.

Both sides have painted themselves into a corner with the BS they've fed their constituents for decades. The Dems can't cut social spending because OMG ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE!!!11! and the GOP can't raise taxes because OMG TEH SOCIALISM!!!!11!.

So we're fucked until liberal voters get smart to the Dems' BS and conservative voters get smart to the Republicans' BS. When will that happen? I dunno, when was the last time US high school students finished in the top 10 in math skills? 1975?

A pox on both their houses, indeed, but unfortunately that means we'll be the ones in the sick beds, while John Boehner and Harry Reid lie poolside dictating their memoirs.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

The government destroyed the Social Security Trust Fund by paying for other things with it. In fact dishonest accounting seems to be the way to get things done in Washington, so much so that Bush wouldn't even put his Wars on the books.

Now we're being asked to sacrifice Social Security and Medicare when the wealthy can't be bothered with Clinton era taxation levels? Really?

See this is what makes me so angry. The conversation should have started there and worked it's way back. Instead the conversation has started with the gutting of relied upon social programs and public sector workers. Shared sacrifice? Hardly.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

I've read more than a few articles the past several years that indicate how hard it's become for kids to find jobs in the summer due to the economy.

I would add increases to the minimum wage to that.