The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

The time to tighten the reins was oh, 1995-2005. That we didn't do so (well, we did for about 2 years) doesn't mean that we need to do so now.

You're a religious man, Bob. Remember the story about the seven years of feast and seven years of famine? Just because we failed to save in the seven years of feast doesn't mean we should starve ourselves more than necessary in the seven years of famine.

Difference is, Pharoah couldn't borrow grain in the second seven years if he and his people ate it all in the first seven years. They had to live with the equivalent of a balanced budget. In our situation, if we don't cut back and "starve" a little in the second seven years, we're just pushing it off to future generations to "starve."

 

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Difference is, Pharoah couldn't borrow grain in the second seven years if he and his people ate it all in the first seven years. They had to live with the equivalent of a balanced budget. In our situation, if we don't cut back and "starve" a little in the second seven years, we're just pushing it off to future generations to "starve."

Only if you believe the famine will last forever. $14 trillion is scary, but considering the GDP of the country is approaching $15 trillion, it's not a lost cause by any means.

I'll put it this way, I trust The Economist more than Michelle Bachmann on this one.

 

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Only if you believe the famine will last forever. $14 trillion is scary, but considering the GDP of the country is approaching $15 trillion, it's not a lost cause by any means.

I'll put it this way, I trust The Economist more than Michelle Bachmann on this one.

You need to turn to god, he's the only one that can help us now.

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[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Only if you believe the famine will last forever. $14 trillion is scary, but considering the GDP of the country is approaching $15 trillion, it's not a lost cause by any means.

I'll put it this way, I trust The Economist more than Michelle Bachmann on this one.

Agreed that it's not a lost cause, yet.

It is a long held economic principle that the borrower serves the lender.

 

[bronconick]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Agreed that it's not a lost cause, yet.

It is a long held economic principle that the borrower serves the lender.

Most of that money is owed to the American people

The government can finally serve us again! Yes!

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Most of that money is owed to the American people

The government can finally serve us again! Yes!

That is gradually changing.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

We spend more on education than any other country, yet we are falling behind. Also, when you look around the country there is no link between money spent on education and results. Simply throwing more money at education will do little good.

We're actually 37th GDP per capita...a much better measure of what we should be spending our money on. The best European countries spend considerably more.

But much of the outcome of education is based on cultural factors, which has less of an impact in Europe. Spending on education will go considerably further in Omaha than it will in Detroit. But its almost a guarentee that if we cut spending in both that we'll see a deterioration in the quality of education and by definition the preparation for the marketplace.

For example...did you go to college? Was that a mistake? I can tell you that if my bachelors was cut short or eliminated, I would have been significantly less prepared. We can cut alot of other things...including letting our roads crumble before we should be slashing education.

 

[Bill]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

The market does a major tumble over a relatively mild attempt at modestly reigning in federal spending. Tells you what will happen when eventually we'll be forced to bring federal spending under control and stop juicing the economy bigtime by printing money.

It may be that the market is more worried about what's going on in Europe.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

It may be that the market is more worried about what's going on in Europe.

Apparently another entitlement society is going belly up. The World hasn't hit bottom yet.

 

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

It may be that the market is more worried about what's going on in Europe.

Or that the incompetents in the US gov't would put through such a worthless piece trash.

 

[BCeagle]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I was wondering, what effects will this have in my conservative portfolio?

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

We spend more on education than any other country, yet we are falling behind. Also, when you look around the country there is no link between money spent on education and results. Simply throwing more money at education will do little good.

We're, 'falling behind' because we educate more second language students than any country on the planet. I question that the majority of our students cannot compete globally.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I was wondering, what effects will this have in my conservative portfolio?

 

[pirate]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

We're, 'falling behind' because we educate more second language students than any country on the planet. I question that the majority of our students cannot compete globally.

It may be , but I haven't seen anything that says that is the primary reason for our lack of performance..I am not aware that second language students are the only ones not keeping pace with the world but it will give me something to google over the weekend.

If we agree that plenty of smart people were/are educated in settings where money spent is not the primary driver, then we could agree that money alone doesn't drive performance. But, to me, it then begs the question, "So, why do we spend so much?". The number escapes me now but the example I put out here a while back was the number of state and district school administrations...in 2009, PA had 501 school districts. That is 501 District Administrations, 501 decisions on text books, 501 administration buildings etc. FOR ONE STATE!

Everybody on here can go off their rocker when someone mentions the dreaded private sector but I'd like to see one company in the world that would address the same number of customers (families) with 501 different managers each with their own staff and with the ability to develop their own strategies and materials.

Why wouldn't a company do that? Because it wouldn't help the bottom line...the amount of attention the customers would get wouldn't result in more sales or more loyalty.

I'm not saying that is why our schools don't perform but it helps inform why we spend so much while getting a declining performance.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

You need to turn to god, he's the only one that can help us now.

[IgnoringSarcasm]
I knew you'd come around eventually.
[/IgnoringSarcasm]

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

It's almost like the market believes in Keynesian economics, even if the Teabaggers don't. Then again, the market tends to have a longer memory, so it probably recalls what happened in 1937-38 when government tightened its reins too soon into the recovery...

The market is worried about the European debt crisis worsening and the US economy slipping back into recession (the latest economic numbers have not been good).

Blaming the current sell-off on the debt deal that passed this week seems rather simplistic to me (plus don't the bulk of these cuts take place further down the line?).

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

The market is worried about the European debt crisis worsening and the US economy slipping back into recession (the latest economic numbers have not been good).

Blaming the current sell-off on the debt deal that passed this week seems rather simplistic to me (plus don't the bulk of these cuts take place further down the line?).

Certainly all of those things factor into the sell-off.

 

[walrus]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

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This pretty interesting I wonder who decides what sides or opinions are legit news. Maybe a new Czar is in order here, the czar of what we want you to hear

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

It may be , but I haven't seen anything that says that is the primary reason for our lack of performance..I am not aware that second language students are the only ones not keeping pace with the world but it will give me something to google over the weekend.

If we agree that plenty of smart people were/are educated in settings where money spent is not the primary driver, then we could agree that money alone doesn't drive performance. But, to me, it then begs the question, "So, why do we spend so much?". The number escapes me now but the example I put out here a while back was the number of state and district school administrations...in 2009, PA had 501 school districts. That is 501 District Administrations, 501 decisions on text books, 501 administration buildings etc. FOR ONE STATE!

Everybody on here can go off their rocker when someone mentions the dreaded private sector but I'd like to see one company in the world that would address the same number of customers (families) with 501 different managers each with their own staff and with the ability to develop their own strategies and materials.

Why wouldn't a company do that? Because it wouldn't help the bottom line...the amount of attention the customers would get wouldn't result in more sales or more loyalty.

I'm not saying that is why our schools don't perform but it helps inform why we spend so much while getting a declining performance.

How else can you do it though? We cant do it on the national level because the people we elect to lead us barely have the brain capacity to tie their own shoes. You cant do it on the state level because budgets are tight and, well not to get too political, but state government conservatives (and Dems for a different reason) want it brought down even farther figuring local cities and towns should have the say over how their kids learn. Both sides want as many chances to gain influence, and the more school boards there are, the more chances to gain a foothold.

Plus, lets say you cut the districts in half...that increases the cost of busing (sometimes greatly as districts can be large and now you would be doubling their size) and it could require more schools be built as some districts are more modern than others and population differences could lead to overcrowding.

Then comes the question of, who is in charge? Is the curriculum set up by the state? Instead of each district having a governing body to vote on district matters is a statewide body going to do so? That just isnt feasible and will fail just like a federal body would.

Your metaphor falls short. No business would have 501 branches (except maybe banks) but they would also have a strong centralized leadership. There is a corporate board of directors that make the decisions and each manager at each plant puts it forth. That model cant work in schools because each city (or town or parrish or whatever) is different and each state is different. Who is going to set the guidelines and make sure they are fair?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

This pretty interesting I wonder who decides what sides or opinions are legit news. Maybe a new Czar is in order here, the czar of what we want you to hear

Opinions aren't news. That's the problem. Right now complete nutjob opinions that have no basis in reality are being passed off as news and it's causing us major problems all over the country.