The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

[Twitch Boy]

http://news.yahoo.com/p-reconsidering-u-downgrade-cnbc-001207261.html

AA+

HA! My mortgage is already locked. Suck it, Teabaggers.

 

[Armadillo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

So our debt/GDP ratio is at 79%, we're almost $15 trillion in debt, S&P said they wanted to see at least $4 trillion in true budget cuts, followed by a plan to stabilize the debt (Cut Cap and Balance, anyone?) and this is somehow the Tea Party's fault? The people who've been screaming from the rooftops for a solid three years now that we need to quit spending so much and balance the budget? THAT Tea Party's at fault?

Whatever makes you feel better, I suppose.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

So our debt/GDP ratio is at 79%, we're almost $15 trillion in debt, S&P said they wanted to see at least $4 trillion in true budget cuts, followed by a plan to stabilize the debt (Cut Cap and Balance, anyone?) and this is somehow the Tea Party's fault? The people who've been screaming from the rooftops for a solid three years now that we need to quit spending so much and balance the budget? THAT Tea Party's at fault?

Whatever makes you feel better, I suppose.

The tea party almost universally was silent 2000-2008 as the country was spending like crazy into the bubble. It was this spending that made it a challenge to fight the recession when it showed up. Not surprisingly as soon as a Dem entered office, the tea party woke up. And the tea party by and large would not support the raising of the debt ceiling...which both S&P and Moody's said prior would result in a ratings downgrade. This is in part because it ties the country's hands in our ability to fight the recession with the tools we do have.

Frankly the tea party was also against ensuring banks and much of the auto industry didn't go belly up in masse during the financial crisis. If they had their way, its doubtful we would have an economy to talk about.

 

[pirate]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I guess the point here is that we shouldn't just cut education as likely that won't lead to restructuring, but just less education. It needs to be restructured first (where there's probably an opportunity).



QUOTE]

I don't disagree, the scare tactic is that the only way education spending cuts can manifest is through reductions in programs and classes for kids. Who makes that argument? The 500 school superintendents are part of that chorus. The right answer should be, how do we cut expense without directly hurting the students...but nobody who gets paid to go to conferences and drive around in a state car is going to go down that path...they protect their jobs and fat salaries and cut back on the arts or charge to play sports and tell parents that any cut in funding will be taken out at the student level.

 

[bronconick]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I guess the point here is that we shouldn't just cut education as likely that won't lead to restructuring, but just less education. It needs to be restructured first (where there's probably an opportunity).



QUOTE]

I don't disagree, the scare tactic is that the only way education spending cuts can manifest is through reductions in programs and classes for kids. Who makes that argument? The 500 school superintendents are part of that chorus. The right answer should be, how do we cut expense without directly hurting the students...but nobody who gets paid to go to conferences and drive around in a state car is going to go down that path...they protect their jobs and fat salaries and cut back on the arts or charge to play sports and tell parents that any cut in funding will be taken out at the student level.

I think I see where you want to go with this. Something like 1-3 superintendents per county based on population that are in charge of those schools, then a regional guy in charge of a dozen counties and then a state-wide czar or something in charge of everything? That would be a more business-like setup for schools by state.

How much of the "all important local control" is left in that setup is questionable, though.

 

[joecct]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

So our debt/GDP ratio is at 79%, we're almost $15 trillion in debt, S&P said they wanted to see at least $4 trillion in true budget cuts, followed by a plan to stabilize the debt (Cut Cap and Balance, anyone?) and this is somehow the Tea Party's fault? The people who've been screaming from the rooftops for a solid three years now that we need to quit spending so much and balance the budget? THAT Tea Party's at fault?

Whatever makes you feel better, I suppose.

79%? The debt clock has it at 98%.

 

[bronconick]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

79%? The debt clock has it at 98%.

I think the other 19% is money the government owes itself. I've seen both numbers used.

 

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

So our debt/GDP ratio is at 79%, we're almost $15 trillion in debt, S&P said they wanted to see at least $4 trillion in true budget cuts, followed by a plan to stabilize the debt (Cut Cap and Balance, anyone?) and this is somehow the Tea Party's fault? The people who've been screaming from the rooftops for a solid three years now that we need to quit spending so much and balance the budget? THAT Tea Party's at fault?

Whatever makes you feel better, I suppose.

Tea baggers were talking about the budget for three years? I thought they were just whining about Obama being a Kenyan muslim fascist dictator who was going to take their guns away? Or to keep gov't out of their medicare?

It's absurd to think that the tea party are any kind of voice of reason and good policy. Republicans and those who say they are tea party members are there to be in power. As a certain uninfluencial member of Congress from Kentucky said, their most important goal is tostop Obama from being elected, not make the country better. (Not just a one time event for him) And unfortunately the democrats are just as politically oriented but are incompetent at it.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Everyone is accountable...the GOP, the Dems, the people and yes the Tea Party as well. They can talk all they want about how they are for cutting spending, but as long as they support candidates like Michelle "I Bought This Outfit With The Money I Got From Government Subsidies" Bachmann they are no more legit or above blame than anyone else.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

As a certain uninfluencial member of Congress from Kentucky said, their most important goal is tostop Obama from being elected, not make the country better. (Not just a one time event for him) And unfortunately the democrats are just as politically oriented but are incompetent at it.

Its bad enough to have that be your goal. How do you sleep at night when that's not what your hired to do? But its not very smart to be saying that to the press.

Goals were quite evident during the whole budget fiasco and I wouldn't be surprised if getting the president changed caused much of the debacle.

 

[joecct]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I think the other 19% is money the government owes itself. I've seen both numbers used.

It still has to be repaid. I used to manage a US Gov't agency endowment fund that had to invest in US Treasuries to fund the fund corpus. If Uncle Sam defaults on that, then the fund goes bankrupt. So I guess the 98% figure is more accurate??

 

[bronconick]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

It still has to be repaid. I used to manage a US Gov't agency endowment fund that had to invest in US Treasuries to fund the fund corpus. If Uncle Sam defaults on that, then the fund goes bankrupt. So I guess the 98% figure is more accurate??

I think so. I guess the 79% would be the sovereign debt from looking at it from the outside, which is technically what they're doing?

 

[joecct]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Thoughtful piece by Michael Barone in today's Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/08/americans-want-honor-earned-success

 

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Thoughtful piece by Michael Barone in today's Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/08/americans-want-honor-earned-success

If by thoughtful you mean equating funding education with paying off the obviously corrupt teacher unions. Or blanket slippery slope arguments about how people don't like things like the stimulus package and the dreaded Obamacare that means they reject such things wholesale and all ideologies behind them. And how democrats are working off a system based in the masses being uneducated. As apposed to the tea party retards who think we should revert the gov't to back when the country didn't even have roads.

I found this to be much more thoughtful. A short video from a documentary a few years back on trickle down economics in New Zealand.
http://youtu.be/eI82rfLop48 (embed disabled)

 

[Plante26]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

The tea party almost universally was silent 2000-2008 as the country was spending like crazy into the bubble. It was this spending that made it a challenge to fight the recession when it showed up. Not surprisingly as soon as a Dem entered office, the tea party woke up. And the tea party by and large would not support the raising of the debt ceiling...which both S&P and Moody's said prior would result in a ratings downgrade. This is in part because it ties the country's hands in our ability to fight the recession with the tools we do have.

Frankly the tea party was also against ensuring banks and much of the auto industry didn't go belly up in masse during the financial crisis. If they had their way, its doubtful we would have an economy to talk about.

A bankruptcy reorganization for GM and Chrysler wouldn't have killed the economy, no matter how much you'd like to believe it would have. The GM and Chrysler bailouts were little more than a kickback to the unsecured creditors (the UAW) at the expense of secured creditors (investors, pension funds, etc.)

As far as the banks were concerned: Most of them weren't that hard up for TARP money. Citibank and BofA were shaky; most of the rest were told by the administration that they had to take the money in order for depositors not to start a run on the weaker institutions by differentiating between the strong and the weak. If TARP were administered correctly, it would have been given to the responsible institutions to buy up the parts of the larger, "too big to fail" banks.

In any case, the Tea Party wasn't around at the outset of either event, so your criticisms are rendered moot.

 

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

In any case, the Tea Party wasn't around at the outset of either event, so your criticisms are rendered moot.

Right, they formed when a half black man became president.

 

[Plante26]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Right, they formed when a half black man became president.

Ah yes, there it is. The race card. When you absolutely, positively cannot win a debate, accept no substitutes.

You dolt. In addition to every relevant poll dispelling this racist myth, you refuse to acknowledge that the "tea party" is made up of mainstream Americans, and that the demographics of the "tea party" align with those of the U.S. population.

Not that you'd know about these things, living in the Yoop and all......

 

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Ah yes, there it is. The race card. When you absolutely, positively cannot win a debate, accept no substitutes.

You dolt. In addition to every relevant poll dispelling this racist myth, you refuse to acknowledge that the "tea party" is made up of mainstream Americans, and that the demographics of the "tea party" align with those of the U.S. population.

Not that you'd know about these things, living in the Yoop and all......

Lol.

 

[Tundra]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

As far as the banks were concerned: Most of them weren't that hard up for TARP money. Citibank and BofA were shaky; most of the rest were told by the administration that they had to take the money in order for depositors not to start a run on the weaker institutions by differentiating between the strong and the weak. If TARP were administered correctly, it would have been given to the responsible institutions to buy up the parts of the larger, "too big to fail" banks.

You do realize Goldman Sachs was one of the biggest borrowers and only reason this information was reluctantly doled out was under court order. the biggest investment bank #1 Goldman Sachs was in trouble ... which meant ALL the investment banks (including subsidiary of commercial bank) were about to go under.

I really wish Obama would do one thing right and fire Geithner (and Bernanke) and hire someone who is totally independent from the banking sector.

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/03/31/fed-lent-to-all-comers-in-crisis/

The Fed has long resisted disclosing the details of loans made at its so-called discount window, but it released thousands of pages of documents Thursday after the courts sided with Bloomberg and Fox in lawsuits seeking access to the information.

The biggest borrowers include not only Citi but also two healthier banks, Goldman Sachs (GS) and Credit Suisse.

By the middle of the next month, the biggest user was Goldman, the Wall Street titan that got $5 billion in assistance from Warren Buffett at the height of the crisis in September and was a big beneficiary of the AIG (AIG) bailout that month

 

[Tundra]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Kinda interesting that we bailed out international banks in 2008. You have to wonder what info Fed is hiding from us (congress) even now.

http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time...lation-fed-lent-billions-to-save-lybian-bank/

In the 18 months following the collapse of Lehman Brothers, a foreign subsidiary of the bank of the government of Muammar Gaddafi received a cumulative $35 billion in short-term loans from the Fed. Libya's Central bank received the loans through a foreign subsidiary called the Arab Banking Corp., which has a branch in New York

ABC is only one of a number of foreign banks that received money in a secretive Fed lending program - the details of which the Federal Reserve was forced to reveal last week after being sued by Bloomberg, Fox News and others.

The Federal Reserve has said that all of the loans, included the ones made to the subsidiary of the Central Bank of Libya were repaid with interest.

One of the things the Fed may have been looking to hide was how often many of those loans went to help out foreign banks. In fact, during one week in October 2008, when the Fed lending program was at its height, 70% of all the loans the US central bank made were to foreign banks.