The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

[bronconick]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Tea Party Republican Joe Walsh apparently owes $117,000 in back child support. Needless to say, I hope he doesn't plan on using future children as a reason why we can't be so badly in debt.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/60111.html

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Tea Party Republican Joe Walsh apparently owes $117,000 in back child support. Needless to say, I hope he doesn't plan on using future children as a reason why we can't be so badly in debt.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/60111.html

I like how he argues that his issues make him better able to deal with the debt ceiling. It never ceases to amaze me how delusional these people are.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

You said "I'm all for raising taxes if they balance the budget. I'll gladly pay my share."

That means you don't pay your share now.

Read it again: "I'm all for raising taxes (i.e. paying more in the future than we do now, regardless of what we pay now is "fair" or not) if they balance the budget. I'll gladly pay my share (of the increase, in addition to the amount I'm paying now)."

 

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

There is "good debt" -- such as purchasing long term assets. But when you use/need debt to finance your current operating budget, that's bad debt.

Because no successful business has ever used debt for anything other than long term projects. Afterall, there's absolutely no market for commercial paper or other forms of short and medium term commercial lines of credit.

 

[walrus]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

That means you don't pay your share now.

It does, I thought it meant I 'd gladly pay my fair share

 

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Apparently you believe we can continue to spend more than we take in for eternity? You belong in DC

No, I simply propose that we increase what we take in when it's clearly a viable option. The whole "spending problem, not a revenue porblem" is a great GOP talking point but also one that is patently false.

Would you rather be the guy earning $75,000/year with a $150k mortgage? Or the guy earning $25k/year but with no debt?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

no, i simply propose that we increase what we take in when it's clearly a viable option. The whole "spending problem, not a revenue porblem" is a great gop talking point but also one that is patently false.

Would you rather be the guy earning $75,000/year with a $150k mortgage? Or the guy earning $25k/year but with no debt?

ialto

 

[walrus]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

No, I simply propose that we increase what we take in when it's clearly a viable option. The whole "spending problem, not a revenue porblem" is a great GOP talking point but also one that is patently false.

Would you rather be the guy earning $75,000/year with a $150k mortgage? Or the guy earning $25k/year but with no debt?

So you think the Gov't spending level is fine? Just increase the revenue and all is well. Whats going to stop them from increasing the spending so we go thru all this again?

 

[JF_Gophers]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Would you rather be the guy earning $75,000/year with a $150k mortgage? Or the guy earning $25k/year but with no debt?

This would be a great example, except the government wouldn't just have the one mortgage. They would have 7 of them, and add at least 1 new one each year while not making any more (or very little more) money. Only paying the interest payment off and never actually getting the mortgages off the books.

 

[Almington]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

There is "good debt" -- such as purchasing long term assets. But when you use/need debt to finance your current operating budget, that's bad debt.

Using short term debt to finance operating expenses isn't that big of deal, sometimes expenses and revenues are not matched up. The problem is when you use long term debt to finance short term expenses.

 

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

while not making any more (or very little more) money.

Gee, I wonder why we're not making any more money (and in fact, when as expressed as a percentage of GDP, are making far less that we normally do?)

 

[JF_Gophers]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Gee, I wonder why we're not making any more money (and in fact, when as expressed as a percentage of GDP, are making far less that we normally do?)

Because a) we refuse to stop spending money on stupid crap (like wars, subsidies and entitlements) and b) we refuse to fix our tax system for all people (not just tax the rich!).

 

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

So you think the Gov't spending level is fine? Just increase the revenue and all is well. Whats going to stop them from increasing the spending so we go thru all this again?

No, I'm saying that refusing to increase revenue for X (where X is whatever reason you think justifies that refusal) is a horrible position to take.

The grand bargain would've cut roughly $5 in spending for every additional $1 in revenue. But According to the Tea Party and yourself, that's unacceptable because we shouldn't pay more taxes.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

So you think the Gov't spending level is fine? Just increase the revenue and all is well. Whats going to stop them from increasing the spending so we go thru all this again?

We're only collecting about 15% of GDP. The number usually hovers around 20%. Seems to me that if we stay at or near the 20% we're fine.

 

[Almington]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

So you think the Gov't spending level is fine? Just increase the revenue and all is well. Whats going to stop them from increasing the spending so we go thru all this again?

Is it not possible to believe that spending is to high AND revenue is to low?

Spending is at ~26% of GDP, this should be brought down to about ~20% of GDP (roughly the level it was at under Clinton, LOWER than federal spending under either Regan or Bush I where it averaged ~22% of GDP).

Revenue is low at about 15% of GDP, and should be increased to ~18% of GDP (up to it's historic average).

At that point we'd be running a deficit of ~$250 Billion as opposed to the current ~$1.5 Trillion per year. Which is something that is both sustainable and can slowly be reduced by constraining spending growth to a rate lower than economic growth.

 

[walrus]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Is it not possible to believe that spending is to high AND revenue is to low?

Spending is at ~26% of GDP, this should be brought down to about ~20% of GDP (roughly the level it was at under Clinton, LOWER than federal spending under either Regan or Bush I where it averaged ~22% of GDP).

Revenue is low at about 15% of GDP, and should be increased to ~18% of GDP (up to it's historic average).

At that point we'd be running a deficit of ~$250 Billion as opposed to the current ~$1.5 Trillion per year. Which is something that is both sustainable and can slowly be reduced by constraining spending growth to a rate lower than economic growth.

Yes its possible to believe spending is too high and revenue is too low. Like I said earlier, have no problem with taxes going up if they stop out of control spending. If you have a leak in a 2nd floor bathroom, do you fix the leak first or paint the first floor ceiling first. I'd like to see them fix the leak first.

 

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Yes its possible to believe spending is too high and revenue is too low. Like I said earlier, have no problem with taxes going up if they stop out of control spending. If you have a leak in a 2nd floor bathroom, do you fix the leak first or paint the first floor ceiling first. I'd like to see them fix the leak first.

But do you fix that leak by cutting off your entire water supply? Or do you go buy a new faucet when the store opens in the morning?

 

[French Rage]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

But do you fix that leak by cutting off your entire water supply? Or do you go buy a new faucet when the store opens in the morning?

I lost track, what does each metaphor mean?

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I lost track, what does each metaphor mean?

An alligator means deceit, orange means hope, and a waterfall means you forgot to pee.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

But do you fix that leak by cutting off your entire water supply? Or do you go buy a new faucet when the store opens in the morning?

If you're looking at your soggy living room ceiling falling down onto your coffee table you shut the water off!