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Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
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Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
Patriots? More like COMMUNISTS!!!
Why do these rich people want to hurt the job creators?
Patriots? More like COMMUNISTS!!!
Why do these rich people want to hurt the job creators?
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
she is just trying to protect against the tea party primary challengers she is going to face
tying this to a balanced budget amendment is a political gimmick. Several non-teabagger GOP senators (such as McCain) think it is foolish
she is just trying to protect against the tea party primary challengers she is going to face
tying this to a balanced budget amendment is a political gimmick. Several non-teabagger GOP senators (such as McCain) think it is foolish
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
For those of you keeping score at home:
A CBS News Poll released Monday morning indicates that:
- 48 percent of the public gives the president a thumbs down on how he's handling talks with federal lawmakers on raising the nation's debt limit, with 43 percent saying they approve of how Obama's handling negotiations.
- But only 31 percent of people questioned say they approve of how Democrats in Congress are dealing with the talks, with 58 percent saying they disapprove.
- And by a 71 to 21 percent margin, the public disapproves of how Republicans in Congress are handling the negotiations.
For those of you keeping score at home:
A CBS News Poll released Monday morning indicates that:
- 48 percent of the public gives the president a thumbs down on how he's handling talks with federal lawmakers on raising the nation's debt limit, with 43 percent saying they approve of how Obama's handling negotiations.
- But only 31 percent of people questioned say they approve of how Democrats in Congress are dealing with the talks, with 58 percent saying they disapprove.
- And by a 71 to 21 percent margin, the public disapproves of how Republicans in Congress are handling the negotiations.
leswp1
Well-known member
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
Admittedly not following this as closely as some of you. For the the GOP people- what is the talking point for why they are rejecting what they asked for a few months ago? And more curious to me- if there are only 70 TP who are extremists why are they controlling the more sane portion of the party? The Dems usually aren't organized no matter what but the GOP not being able to organize those who should be cognizant of some form of statesmanship baffles me. I get the TP people may field candidates in their area but are we to assume that there are that many people who are this extremist and ignorant of the way the economy runs to vote out intelligent, thinking house members? (this is probably ignorant of me, I am sure)
Admittedly not following this as closely as some of you. For the the GOP people- what is the talking point for why they are rejecting what they asked for a few months ago? And more curious to me- if there are only 70 TP who are extremists why are they controlling the more sane portion of the party? The Dems usually aren't organized no matter what but the GOP not being able to organize those who should be cognizant of some form of statesmanship baffles me. I get the TP people may field candidates in their area but are we to assume that there are that many people who are this extremist and ignorant of the way the economy runs to vote out intelligent, thinking house members? (this is probably ignorant of me, I am sure)
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
The TP faction of the party won't accept any revenue increases, nor will they except debt reduction under a certain threshold ($4T IIRC). They won't embrace the Reid plan because it's too small. The same thing applies to the Boehner one (even smaller). Obama's is a non-starter due to the tax hikes (even loophole closures / expiring rates = tax hikes).
The party leadership won't agree to either Democratic plan out of fear that it will split the party. Boehner could get the 2/3 of the GOP house (non-TP) to side with him and accept the Reid plan for example (perhaps) and pass it with Dem support. However, if he decided to go this route, the TP faction would be royally p*ssed off and would mount challenges to all the "traitors" in the 2012 primaries. Things would turn very ugly and an all-out war for the soul of the party would break out for all to see next fall. Given how things have gone, this might happen anyway.
The TP faction of the party won't accept any revenue increases, nor will they except debt reduction under a certain threshold ($4T IIRC). They won't embrace the Reid plan because it's too small. The same thing applies to the Boehner one (even smaller). Obama's is a non-starter due to the tax hikes (even loophole closures / expiring rates = tax hikes).
The party leadership won't agree to either Democratic plan out of fear that it will split the party. Boehner could get the 2/3 of the GOP house (non-TP) to side with him and accept the Reid plan for example (perhaps) and pass it with Dem support. However, if he decided to go this route, the TP faction would be royally p*ssed off and would mount challenges to all the "traitors" in the 2012 primaries. Things would turn very ugly and an all-out war for the soul of the party would break out for all to see next fall. Given how things have gone, this might happen anyway.
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JF_Gophers
2147483647
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
I think i've come to the side of not raising the debt ceiling (ever) and just letting us default. Not because I want a crap economy, but because I want our current government blown up so we can start over. If we default, 90% of those people are going to be out of office next time they are up for election.
I can't believe we elected those people in the first place. There should be a test to see if you are capable of the job.
I think i've come to the side of not raising the debt ceiling (ever) and just letting us default. Not because I want a crap economy, but because I want our current government blown up so we can start over. If we default, 90% of those people are going to be out of office next time they are up for election.
I can't believe we elected those people in the first place. There should be a test to see if you are capable of the job.
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
Anyone else find it hilarious that Bachmann, a tea-bagger favorite, is supposedly against Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac but has personally benefited from a government backed mortgage for a 5000+ square foot home. She also has interest in a family farm that has received over $250,000 in farm subsidies (she has claimed income from her interest in the farm in financial disclosures). And her husband's clinic has received government funds as well (she says as owners they don't make a profit from the clinic but her husband does draw a salary as an employee and that none of the government funds went to his salary).
Somehow all of this person's income has something to do with government (either directly as an employee of the state or federal government, or as a part owner of a family farm that receives government subsidies, or
as the owner of a clinic that has received government subsidies and medicare payments. And the tea bagger fools believe her when she panders to them about eliminating federal mortgage programs and government subsidies.
Anyone else find it hilarious that Bachmann, a tea-bagger favorite, is supposedly against Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac but has personally benefited from a government backed mortgage for a 5000+ square foot home. She also has interest in a family farm that has received over $250,000 in farm subsidies (she has claimed income from her interest in the farm in financial disclosures). And her husband's clinic has received government funds as well (she says as owners they don't make a profit from the clinic but her husband does draw a salary as an employee and that none of the government funds went to his salary).
Somehow all of this person's income has something to do with government (either directly as an employee of the state or federal government, or as a part owner of a family farm that receives government subsidies, or
as the owner of a clinic that has received government subsidies and medicare payments. And the tea bagger fools believe her when she panders to them about eliminating federal mortgage programs and government subsidies.
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
f-that
if we default I'm ******ed. I'm planning on relocating in a couple years (I bought some land in the area i want to relocate to). I don't want the interest rate for a construction loan to skyrocket, and I want someone to actually buy my current house. If interest rates skyrocket and the housing market collapses again I could be underwater
f-that
if we default I'm ******ed. I'm planning on relocating in a couple years (I bought some land in the area i want to relocate to). I don't want the interest rate for a construction loan to skyrocket, and I want someone to actually buy my current house. If interest rates skyrocket and the housing market collapses again I could be underwater
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Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
Great talking point. Too bad the Patriotic Millionaires have already debunked it.
"A few of us voluntarily writing a check to the IRS will not fix the problem that Sen. Hatch and his colleagues created for our country with their fiscal irresponsibility. It will take the work of all Patriotic Americans to create a strong foundation for our continued prosperity. We are willing to do our part by paying higher taxes. It is clear Senator Hatch and many of his colleagues are not willing to do theirs. We challenge Senator Hatch and the other millionaire members of the Senate to put their country first and raise taxes on people like them – and us – who make more than a million dollars a year. In the meantime, if Senator Hatch would like to make a personal contribution to the IRS to help his country, we pledge to match his contribution."
I couldn't find his contribution to the IRS. Guess he isn't patriotic. Why does Orrin Hatch hate America?
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sqIgb48iq6w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Great talking point. Too bad the Patriotic Millionaires have already debunked it.
"A few of us voluntarily writing a check to the IRS will not fix the problem that Sen. Hatch and his colleagues created for our country with their fiscal irresponsibility. It will take the work of all Patriotic Americans to create a strong foundation for our continued prosperity. We are willing to do our part by paying higher taxes. It is clear Senator Hatch and many of his colleagues are not willing to do theirs. We challenge Senator Hatch and the other millionaire members of the Senate to put their country first and raise taxes on people like them – and us – who make more than a million dollars a year. In the meantime, if Senator Hatch would like to make a personal contribution to the IRS to help his country, we pledge to match his contribution."
I couldn't find his contribution to the IRS. Guess he isn't patriotic. Why does Orrin Hatch hate America?
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sqIgb48iq6w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
The Cynic in all of us says you are probably right. The challengers she has are a joke, she wins in a landslide. I think the House should pass a bill containing balanced budget amendment though just to see who votes against it in the Senate.Its obvious neither side can do their job.
Yes
The Cynic in all of us says you are probably right. The challengers she has are a joke, she wins in a landslide. I think the House should pass a bill containing balanced budget amendment though just to see who votes against it in the Senate.Its obvious neither side can do their job.
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Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
Hey! Just because economic Armageddon might hurt you and a couple billion other people is no reason to raise the debt ceiling. Suck it up!
Hey! Just because economic Armageddon might hurt you and a couple billion other people is no reason to raise the debt ceiling. Suck it up!
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
JF_Gophers
2147483647
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
Exactly. At some point everyone, including our government shouldn't be allowed to borrow any more money. We have reached that point.
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Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
Excuse? They said they'd match any donation to the IRS that Hatch made. He has contributed exactly $0.
And yes, that talking point has been debunked. As they say, a few people writing checks won't solve the problem.
Excuse? They said they'd match any donation to the IRS that Hatch made. He has contributed exactly $0.
And yes, that talking point has been debunked. As they say, a few people writing checks won't solve the problem.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
It's all GOP posturing at this point. Obama's backed the Reid Plan and the only important difference between the Reid and Boehner Plans is political (Boehner wants us to go through this again in 6 months, though he's probably starting to have remorse about that). Everybody has agreed in all important respects to a plan that is to the right of what the Republicans were demanding in the Spring. Everything else is just trying not to "lose face."
An interesting thing has happened, though: not all the pledge / TP / freshmen are against Boehner, which they should be if they are really serious and afraid of the supposed power of the TP fringe. That means a lot of them have calculated their chances are better going with a compromise than being ideologically pure. That way lies TP oblivion, which is why there is so much fury against them from the radical right.
The only thing preventing the eventual obvious deal (adopt Boehner with some sort of soft "review" next year, to give the GOP some political cover but allow Congress to, oh I dunno, actually get on with doing its job) is Republicans trying not to cooperate with Obama. 538 had a great one liner about this: the Republicans would rather get less by imposition than get more by cooperation. That suggests the entire exercise has been about undermining Obama and actually has nothing to do with budgetary concerns (which is after all what one would expect, given they constantly raised the ceiling decoupled from budget reform when there was a Repub president).
The TP's mouth wrote checks its body couldn't cash, and now it's a matter of whether the GOP can get enough of them to walk it back without too much embarrassment to the national party. That's why the internal email was such a big deal -- they need to pretend they are all on the same side, if demonizing Obama is going to work.
They should never have given Obama the chance to be the adult so obviously, though. All the "oh noes, radical socialist!!!111!" is long gone now. About the only real attack they could mount is "Obama is so ineffective he couldn't even stop us from holding the country hostage." And that's not a real good message.
It's all GOP posturing at this point. Obama's backed the Reid Plan and the only important difference between the Reid and Boehner Plans is political (Boehner wants us to go through this again in 6 months, though he's probably starting to have remorse about that). Everybody has agreed in all important respects to a plan that is to the right of what the Republicans were demanding in the Spring. Everything else is just trying not to "lose face."
An interesting thing has happened, though: not all the pledge / TP / freshmen are against Boehner, which they should be if they are really serious and afraid of the supposed power of the TP fringe. That means a lot of them have calculated their chances are better going with a compromise than being ideologically pure. That way lies TP oblivion, which is why there is so much fury against them from the radical right.
The only thing preventing the eventual obvious deal (adopt Boehner with some sort of soft "review" next year, to give the GOP some political cover but allow Congress to, oh I dunno, actually get on with doing its job) is Republicans trying not to cooperate with Obama. 538 had a great one liner about this: the Republicans would rather get less by imposition than get more by cooperation. That suggests the entire exercise has been about undermining Obama and actually has nothing to do with budgetary concerns (which is after all what one would expect, given they constantly raised the ceiling decoupled from budget reform when there was a Repub president).
The TP's mouth wrote checks its body couldn't cash, and now it's a matter of whether the GOP can get enough of them to walk it back without too much embarrassment to the national party. That's why the internal email was such a big deal -- they need to pretend they are all on the same side, if demonizing Obama is going to work.
They should never have given Obama the chance to be the adult so obviously, though. All the "oh noes, radical socialist!!!111!" is long gone now. About the only real attack they could mount is "Obama is so ineffective he couldn't even stop us from holding the country hostage." And that's not a real good message.
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unofan
Well-known member
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
Unfortunately for your argument, the market disagrees. Otherwise, interest rates on the debt would not be as low as they are, nor would we have a AAA rating. We're no worse off than a person making $1,000,000/year with a $950,000 mortgage.
The only reason things are going to hell in a handbasket is because the GOP has decided, for whatever reason, that farking over the country is worth it if it means beating the black man next year.
Unfortunately for your argument, the market disagrees. Otherwise, interest rates on the debt would not be as low as they are, nor would we have a AAA rating. We're no worse off than a person making $1,000,000/year with a $950,000 mortgage.
The only reason things are going to hell in a handbasket is because the GOP has decided, for whatever reason, that farking over the country is worth it if it means beating the black man next year.
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