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The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

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Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I heard from a guy this weekend about liberal and conservative morality. I thought it was actually quite good. He read that the basis for perspective is based on:

Liberal morality basis

Fairness
Don't hurt others

Conservative morality basis

Fairness
Don't hurt others
Tradition
Respect for authority, country
The 'appropriateness' of issues, actions, etc.
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Movement conservatism isn't new. It's not a political theory, it's a religion, and you don't compromise on your religion.

Bradley Whitford (the guy who played Josh Lyman) said, "Supply side economics is their religion and tax cuts are their Jesus."
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Bradley Whitford (the guy who played Josh Lyman) said, "Supply side economics is their religion and tax cuts are their Jesus."

I don't even think today's anti-taxers are supply-siders. The Tea Party isn't exactly a cradle for sophisticated economic theory. These folks are the same as the fringe of the environmentalist religion that thought "no cost is too high" for their scriptural dictates.

As with environmentalists, there's truth to some of their concerns, but while most of the environmental movement is mature (and educated) enough to understand context and develop compromises, the current Republicans are immature and full of themselves, and are shouting the wingnut equivalent of "we must immediately and completely ban the internal combustion engine!" There's no way to debate or reason with them -- they're not thinking, they're having an ecstatic vision.
 
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Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

The table gets smaller...

House Democrats recently made a small attempt at trying to find savings in the federal budget by cutting $120 million from the Pentagon’s $320 million budget for military bands. However, House Republicans yesterday approved a measure to strip that provision from the defense appropriations bill.
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

TNR reports there is a deal on the table that might pass:

a more modest package for roughly $1.7 trillion to $2.3 trillion in cuts with upwards of $500 billion in revenue increases, including $40 billion to $60 billion from ending tax breaks for corporate jets, yachts and race horses (and, possibly, a proposal to stop taxing hedge fund managers’ income as capital gains, thus subjecting it to a higher rate); plus $150 billion to $200 billion in increased revenues from requiring more pension contributions from federal employees, broadcast frequency auctions and getting rid of farm subsidies; and another several hundred billion dollars from pegging inflation to the Consumer Price Index. All of the new revenues would be offset by a permanent or long-term Alternative Minimum Tax fix, a popular bipartisan move, thus satisfying the Grover Norquists of the world. This deal would include modest Medicare cuts, but to providers only, and could also include some short term stimulus such as an employer payroll tax holiday.
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

And we're still going bankrupt if that's the deal. So, what was gained? I guess the immediate debt ceiling issue. Still no jobs, but the House doesn't care about that anyway.

At least that one saves the military bands. Whew.
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Wait, we spend $320 million on military bands? The common sense in me is saying that they have $320 million right there that is an easy cut.
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Wait, we spend $320 million on military bands? The common sense in me is saying that they have $320 million right there that is an easy cut.
Rep Carter responds:
Rep. John Carter (R-TX), the measure’s sponsor, said yesterday on the House floor that trimming the band budget was a “tragedy” because military bands “are an integral part to the patriotism that keeps our soldiers hearts beating fast.”

That's just the beginning...
The Hill reported in May that according to one analyst, military bands could cost the Pentagon $50 billion over the next 50 years.
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

It's not cuttable if the Tea Party wants it.

It's the principle of "What's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable." Military bands are "theirs" so they are not negotiable. I expect the entire $721 Billion defense budget is sacrosanct, unless it's cutting soldiers families' food stamps or housing assistance.
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

It's the principle of "What's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable." Military bands are "theirs" so they are not negotiable. I expect the entire $721 Billion defense budget is sacrosanct, unless it's cutting soldiers families' food stamps or housing assistance.

Or their health care. Especially if it's on the mental health side.
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Wait, we spend $320 million on military bands? The common sense in me is saying that they have $320 million right there that is an easy cut.

Seriously. You can't get a local high school band to play Stars and Stripes forever?
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

John Paulson, a hedge fund manager in New York City, made $4.9 billion last year, top of the chart for hedge fund managers, according to AR Magazine, which follows hedge funds. That's equivalent to the average per capita income of 184,000 Americans, according to my back-of-envelope calculations based on Census Bureau figures.

Paulson declined to comment on this tax break, but here's how it works. These fund managers are compensated mostly with a performance bonus of 20 percent or more of the profits they make.

Under this carried interest loophole, that 20 percent is eligible to be taxed at the long-term capital gains rate (if the fund's underlying assets are held long enough) of just 15 percent rather than the regular personal income rate of 35 percent.

Makes 4.9 billion. Taxed at 15%. Manages a hedge fund which creates nothing, including no jobs.

God Bless, America.

http://www.startribune.com/opinion/otherviews/125156574.html
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

TNR reports there is a deal on the table that might pass:

The rest of that article spells it out:

Let me try to explain what this means. The "Alternative Minimum Tax" is kind of a parallel tax rate, created in 1969, designed to ensure that very rich taxpayers didn't amass so many deductions that they could avoid paying any taxes. If your tax rate falls below your "alternative minimum tax rate," then you have to pay the AMT rate instead. It's sort of a failsafe tax rate.

The AMT has, over the decades, inadvertently grown to a point where it hits non-rich taxpayers, especially ones in high-tax states. Congress has responded by continually passing "patches" that keep the AMT from growing. Since these patches are passed generally a year or two at a time, the law assumes that the AMT will continue to grow in size and raise taxes at lower and lower income levels. The AMT is one of the differences between the budget baseline that assumes current law, and which shows the deficit falling to a modest level -- and the budget projections that assume current policy.

So according to Newton-Small, one possible deal will raise a lot of taxes, but offset the revenue by permanently fixing the AMT. That way, conservatives can say that they didn't vote for a net tax hike -- they just voted to close some loopholes and plow the revenue back into other tax reductions. This allows them to avoid contradicting their sacred pledge to Grover Norquist never to support a revenue increase.

But wait, you ask! How does this help the deficit problem?

The answer is that if you assume that Congress will continue to patch the AMT year after year anyway, then the revenue loss from that "tax cut" isn't real. You're just accounting for revenue that would be lost anyway, but paying for it rather than financing it with debt. In other words, you're turning a future assumed debt-financed tax cut into a future paid-for tax cut. That's genuine budget savings.

If that passes it's actually a pretty good deal if you're a liberal... and not a government employee. It's complete hypocrisy from the pledge signers, but that was a stupid act of political posturing in the first place, so if they want to go back on freedom fries when faced with reality, good for them.
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Makes 4.9 billion. Taxed at 15%. Manages a hedge fund which creates nothing, including no jobs.

God Bless, America.

Hey! He doesn't create "nothing." He helped create the financial crisis. Anybody else around here ever do anything that big?
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

That Marxist rag The Economist has some blame for both sides, but reserves the heavy guns for our (sniff) patriots.

The sticking-point is not on the spending side. It is because the vast majority of Republicans, driven on by the wilder-eyed members of their party and the cacophony of conservative media, are clinging to the position that not a single cent of deficit reduction must come from a higher tax take. This is economically illiterate and disgracefully cynical.

This newspaper has a strong dislike of big government; we have long argued that the main way to right America’s finances is through spending cuts. But you cannot get there without any tax rises. In Britain, for instance, the coalition government aims to tame its deficit with a 3:1 ratio of cuts to hikes. America’s tax take is at its lowest level for decades: even Ronald Reagan raised taxes when he needed to do so.

And the closer you look, the more unprincipled the Republicans look. Earlier this year House Republicans produced a report noting that an 85%-15% split between spending cuts and tax rises was the average for successful fiscal consolidations, according to historical evidence. The White House is offering an 83%-17% split (hardly a huge distance) and a promise that none of the revenue increase will come from higher marginal rates, only from eliminating loopholes. If the Republicans were real tax reformers, they would seize this offer.

Both parties have in recent months been guilty of fiscal recklessness. Right now, though, the blame falls clearly on the Republicans. Independent voters should take note.
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Makes 4.9 billion. Taxed at 15%. Manages a hedge fund which creates nothing, including no jobs.

God Bless, America.

http://www.startribune.com/opinion/otherviews/125156574.html
That's $735 million in taxes paid. But heck, why in heaven's name is he paid that much? He's still got $4.1 billion left before the yacht payment. He could fund the NBA and NFL's income problems from petty cash.
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

That's $735 million in taxes paid. But heck, why in heaven's name is he paid that much? He's still got $4.1 billion left before the yacht payment. He could fund the NBA and NFL's income problems from petty cash.

And he gets upwards of a 20% bonus, which more than covers his taxes.
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

An analysis of the radicalization of the right and, to a lesser but still noticeable extent, the left. If the thesis is right, it helps explain why the GOP won't negotiate in good faith: it's the politically "smart" thing to do, at least short-term.

I think this comment pretty much captures my feelings on things:

HPLeft in 538 comments said:
So, what you're suggesting is that Republicans who hope to be re-elected in 2012 cannot actually do what's right for the nation, what common sense tells them must be done - but must instead vote in a fashion that reflects their low-infomation, ideologically insane base. They must destroy our economy, and the full faith and credit of the United States, in order to save their jobs - despite the fact their low tax, low regulation fetish created this mess in the first place.

So much for patriotism and love of country...
 
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