The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

[Tundra]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

So, if closing Planned Parenthood would lead women to go to other clinics where they are more likely to get an ultrasound, you potentially would see a significant reduction in abortions.

I'm not sure how/why someone would/could pay for ultrasound ($100-200) when they are getting an abortion ($400-600) and need medicaid help paying for this service. (70% reduction seems kinda high for using graphic depiction like ultrasound... I might concede <5% or 1 in 20 might change their mind)

I think when they (pro-lifers) say that prevention (birth control) is a red herring is when they lose me. seen that comment made several times by various groups/congress persons on cspan/ PBS talking about abortion.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I didn't read back in the thread but isn't planned parenthood one of the few places that saves more money than it costs?

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I thought abortion accounted for 90% of what Planned Parenthood does.

I'd make a massive donation to them if they could get the percentage that high.

 

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

But, sorry, the conversations we have aren't posted on the internet anywhere for your viewing.

I don't doubt you have such conversations, I doubt the 80% number. Since most people's anecdotle evidence tends to be vastly overstated, regardless of the subject matter, I guess I'd like to see something, anything, supporting it besides anecdotes.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

That's why Foxton is the only person I have on my ignore list.

Not referencing the Foxton thing directly...All this dialog is good natured discuss and even debate. Its interesting and sometimes educational. Sometimes there's confusion as tone is usually absent in posts and sometimes its frustrating if you say something thats undefendable. But in the end this board never really has anything too bad.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I'm not sure how/why someone would/could pay for ultrasound ($100-200) when they are getting an abortion ($400-600) and need medicaid help paying for this service. (70% reduction seems kinda high for using graphic depiction like ultrasound... I might concede <5% or 1 in 20 might change their mind)

I think when they (pro-lifers) say that prevention (birth control) is a red herring is when they lose me. seen that comment made several times by various groups/congress persons on cspan/ PBS talking about abortion.

We don't charge folks that come in for the ultrasound they get. Free.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Not referencing the Foxton thing directly...All this dialog is good natured discuss and even debate. Its interesting and sometimes educational. Sometimes there's confusion as tone is usually absent in posts and sometimes its frustrating if you say something thats undefendable. But in the end this board never really has anything too bad.

I agree for the most part. Foxton is the first person in a number of years I put on ignore because repeatedly I found that Foxton would do nothing but come on here and attack and insult and berate me and scream. I'll put up with a lot of b.s. if there is some level of trying to have a dialogue, as there is with most people around here. There was none with Foxton.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I don't doubt you have such conversations, I doubt the 80% number. Since most people's anecdotle evidence tends to be vastly overstated, regardless of the subject matter, I guess I'd like to see something, anything, supporting it besides anecdotes.

There's even a name for it.

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

There's even a name for it.

Some woman wrote something about this a few yrs ago and was interviewed on the radio. Was fascinating. It changed me listening to it. I try VERY hard (not always successful) to not have a knee jerk reaction. I agree with who ever posted above that dialogue is good. I may never agree with some points of view but I would like to understand why the person believes it.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Confirmation bias is nothing more than taking the path of least resistance. People are inherently lazy and insecure beings, so if it takes minimal effort to filter out all challenges as merely "wrong" and clustering together with like-minded people who are "right", so much the better. I also can't help but wonder if our woeful interest/performance in the scientific disciplines is somehow related to this.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Confirmation bias is nothing more than taking the path of least resistance. People are inherently lazy and insecure beings, so if it takes minimal effort to filter out all challenges as merely "wrong" and clustering together with like-minded people who are "right", so much the better.

No, it's a lot more than that, because it's actually a function of your brain. Trying to correct for confirmation bias has a dimension of "work" or "confidence" (as opposed to being lazy or insecure), but trying to prevent it is not a matter of your character or your intelligence -- it literally isn't possible, it's actually hardwired right into your brain.

The guy who was free of confirmation bias couldn't filter out the forest fast enough to see the lion. He didn't reproduce.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

So we're condemned to ignore contrary opinions in perpetuity and embrace our own echo chambers?

Great, just great.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

So we're condemned to ignore contrary opinions in perpetuity and embrace our own echo chambers?

Great, just great.

This is a mind, when functioning as designed:

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

You could have saved us this tangent by quoting The Matrix and asking us if we wanted the red or blue pill.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

You could have saved us this tangent by quoting The Matrix and asking us if we wanted the red or blue pill.

That's a different issue, sociological rather than psychological.

But when it comes to that: both pills are blue; the red pill is part of the delusion. (Technically, there are no pills at all.)

Morpheus and Neo are just inside another part of the Matrix, the contrarian part. That's why their self-congratulations for being rebels is particularly ironic. There is no "outside." The AI aren't real, either. Nobody built the Matrix: because its juxtaposition with existential reality is its own essence, it's just a self-reference.

See also: all of youth culture, philosophy since Husserl, lit crit since Derrida, and this very post.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I thought the budget (debt ceiling) crisis meant that everything is on the table? In fact I've heard that rhetoric used over and over again. But, alas, everything is NOT ON the table.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...debt-deal-white-house-tries-to-salvage-talks/

I'm to the point now where I'm so sick of what is going on in my state and my country that I'm hoping for government shutdown in Minnesota and the United States to default on its obligations. Maybe then and only then will people really understand.

 

[joecct]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I thought the budget (debt ceiling) crisis meant that everything is on the table? In fact I've heard that rhetoric used over and over again. But, alas, everything is NOT ON the table.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...debt-deal-white-house-tries-to-salvage-talks/

I'm to the point now where I'm so sick of what is going on in my state and my country that I'm hoping for government shutdown in Minnesota and the United States to default on its obligations. Maybe then and only then will people really understand.

But that may lead to (eventual) unemployment for the legislatures!! They'll never allow that to happen!! Would they?

I'm so cynical right now about my state and federal legislatures. If I expect them to do their worst, they manage to exceed it.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I'm to the point now where I'm so sick of what is going on in my state and my country that I'm hoping for government shutdown in Minnesota and the United States to default on its obligations. Maybe then and only then will people really understand.

The government defaulting on its obligations really puts a dent in far right politics.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I thought the budget (debt ceiling) crisis meant that everything is on the table? In fact I've heard that rhetoric used over and over again. But, alas, everything is NOT ON the table.

You're assuming they're being logically inconsistent. I've been assuming they're being cynical. Maybe we're both wrong -- maybe they're just crazy.

This is brinksmanship with all of our lives, our money, our core financial stability and future growth. It is an outrageously reckless way to run a government. And Cantor's refusal to take any personal responsibility for the result of these talks is of a piece with the record of this shallow, callow fanatic who has the gall to call himself a conservative, even as he launches a wrecking ball at the very fabric of the American and global economy.

These current Republicans would rather destroy the US economy than sacrifice one scintilla of ideological purity. They are an imminent threat to the stability of this country's economy and the world's. And they must be stopped before the damage is irreversible.

 

[Bill]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

What specific spending cuts are the Dems offering?