ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!
Maybe someone should have thought about the cost of war before going?
Maybe someone should have thought about the cost of war before going?
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The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!
- Thread starter joecct
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leswp1
Well-known member
Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!
Apparently not. The Vets should be able to be resourceful and take care of themselves.
Why would anyone want to serve a country that doesn't respect their service?
Apparently not. The Vets should be able to be resourceful and take care of themselves.
Why would anyone want to serve a country that doesn't respect their service?
P
Priceless
Guest
Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!
It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months. So the cost will probably be 1-2 billion - which the grateful Iraqis will pay back through their oil revenue.
It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months. So the cost will probably be 1-2 billion - which the grateful Iraqis will pay back through their oil revenue.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!
Thanks for letting us know what people are "really" thinking and what they are "really" doing. Your mind-reading skills are truly awe-inspiring.
(Or you just retrocon every opposing view and every motivation to fit your sad, tired, silly, shallow, narrow view of the world. But it couldn't be that.)
Thanks for letting us know what people are "really" thinking and what they are "really" doing. Your mind-reading skills are truly awe-inspiring.
(Or you just retrocon every opposing view and every motivation to fit your sad, tired, silly, shallow, narrow view of the world. But it couldn't be that.)
Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!
Also, the idea of cutting the VA's budget doesn't necessarily translate into the "omg they're turning away disabled vets!!1!!!" situation I'm seeing the left worry about in this thread. If it's a generic budget cut to the agency as a whole, the consequences of that cut will be totally dependent upon the decisions of upper management (it could take the form of hiring freezes / attrition, cutting back on equipment purchases, etc - there'd certainly be *some* impact on services, but I doubt it'd be as dire as some make it out to be).
My idea doesn't involve attacking other countries, unless we ended up doing that to secure a steady flow of mail order brides and service staff for the all-wealthy US of the future.
Also, the idea of cutting the VA's budget doesn't necessarily translate into the "omg they're turning away disabled vets!!1!!!" situation I'm seeing the left worry about in this thread. If it's a generic budget cut to the agency as a whole, the consequences of that cut will be totally dependent upon the decisions of upper management (it could take the form of hiring freezes / attrition, cutting back on equipment purchases, etc - there'd certainly be *some* impact on services, but I doubt it'd be as dire as some make it out to be).
Patman
Rodent of Unusual Size
Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!
Because they see people hurting and they know that can only happen in the presence of greed. They know so many things.
Fundamentally, all health care systems will mean that people will die... the question comes down to the freedom to recieve treatment from those who provide it from their freedoms subject to a price.... or, alternatively, the degree to which we deprive the freedoms either from those who recieve treatment or those who provide treatment. Many here seek out solutions which maximize the deprivation in the name of fairness and equality. The morality of this may vary from person to person... the effects do not. I gain no pleasure off of some medical rep's $300K car... but one always has to look out for a moralistic government which cannot provide such a morality. For them to be more moral they will have to deprive somebody's liberty. Its just a matter of whose... under Obamacare we have decided to restrict those of the doctors (look at the large numbers that want to leave their field over these measures... do you think this is helping?!), those who go w/o insurance for various reasons (let's remember, insurance is nothing more than a bet that the insurer is making on your health), the insurance providers (yeah, not a sympathetic group), and the elderly (as Dr. Emmanuel reminds us, to get the most savings we must restrict at the costliest point of life... the end... and its only moral). These restrictions are provided concretely to maintain certain cost constraints which are imposed from the top... we accept this deprivation of liberty because....
wait, how many of you have accepted the above?
edit: for those of you who need something in your lives to provide for others... have you considered charity? If not, have you considered donating to the federal government?
Because they see people hurting and they know that can only happen in the presence of greed. They know so many things.
Fundamentally, all health care systems will mean that people will die... the question comes down to the freedom to recieve treatment from those who provide it from their freedoms subject to a price.... or, alternatively, the degree to which we deprive the freedoms either from those who recieve treatment or those who provide treatment. Many here seek out solutions which maximize the deprivation in the name of fairness and equality. The morality of this may vary from person to person... the effects do not. I gain no pleasure off of some medical rep's $300K car... but one always has to look out for a moralistic government which cannot provide such a morality. For them to be more moral they will have to deprive somebody's liberty. Its just a matter of whose... under Obamacare we have decided to restrict those of the doctors (look at the large numbers that want to leave their field over these measures... do you think this is helping?!), those who go w/o insurance for various reasons (let's remember, insurance is nothing more than a bet that the insurer is making on your health), the insurance providers (yeah, not a sympathetic group), and the elderly (as Dr. Emmanuel reminds us, to get the most savings we must restrict at the costliest point of life... the end... and its only moral). These restrictions are provided concretely to maintain certain cost constraints which are imposed from the top... we accept this deprivation of liberty because....
wait, how many of you have accepted the above?
edit: for those of you who need something in your lives to provide for others... have you considered charity? If not, have you considered donating to the federal government?
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Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!
Foxton, if you're around - why did you make a post highlighting the $4.5B VA budget cuts in Bachmann's $400B proposal?
Well, let's find out, then.
Foxton, if you're around - why did you make a post highlighting the $4.5B VA budget cuts in Bachmann's $400B proposal?
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!
I overreacted. I actually felt bad about it driving into work this morning. Sorry.
I overreacted. I actually felt bad about it driving into work this morning. Sorry.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!
The nice thing about this plan is we don't need boots on the ground. If we just destroy their cities and their economies, immigration will take care of the rest and we won't even have to pay for shipping. And once we get the wall built we can pick and choose who we let in -- strong-backed males to pull our chariots and cute, pliant women to be brides.
It was about time somebody put forward a workable plan.
The nice thing about this plan is we don't need boots on the ground. If we just destroy their cities and their economies, immigration will take care of the rest and we won't even have to pay for shipping. And once we get the wall built we can pick and choose who we let in -- strong-backed males to pull our chariots and cute, pliant women to be brides.
It was about time somebody put forward a workable plan.
Foxton
Banned
Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!
Perhaps because I do not like cutting money veterans receive while America is dealing with an avoidable quagmire in the middle east.
Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!
No worries at all - I've done far, far worse myself.
No worries at all - I've done far, far worse myself.
Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!
Sounds good to me. What say we get out, and enact the other $395B of cuts?
Sounds good to me. What say we get out, and enact the other $395B of cuts?
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!
You had me at "we get out."
Still, not all cuts are the same, and I'm not just saying "my things are vital and your things are negotiable." To the extent that money actually goes to the care of military personnel who are recovering from injuries sustained because of their participation in military activities (combat, training, etc), I don't want to cut any of those dollars. I'm not particularly pro-military and under normal circumstances I think soldiers should be treated the same as any other citizen, but soldiers in those narrow categories fall under "we broke it, we bought it." Those guys were hurt in my defense (even if the actual exercise of defense was wrongheaded) and I owe them that care.
You had me at "we get out."
Still, not all cuts are the same, and I'm not just saying "my things are vital and your things are negotiable." To the extent that money actually goes to the care of military personnel who are recovering from injuries sustained because of their participation in military activities (combat, training, etc), I don't want to cut any of those dollars. I'm not particularly pro-military and under normal circumstances I think soldiers should be treated the same as any other citizen, but soldiers in those narrow categories fall under "we broke it, we bought it." Those guys were hurt in my defense (even if the actual exercise of defense was wrongheaded) and I owe them that care.
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Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!
How much of the electorate would support me and this plan in 2016?
Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!
The only way out of this mess is going to be cuts across the board. Everyone is going to have to feel some pain. The moment you say that some programs can't be cut everyone else is going to protect their own sacred cow. Given how inefficient gov't is most of the cuts won't have much of a noticible effect the service thats provided because it will force people to trim some of the fat. I think that most people would be willing to go along with cuts if they see that everyone else is in the same boat.
The only way out of this mess is going to be cuts across the board. Everyone is going to have to feel some pain. The moment you say that some programs can't be cut everyone else is going to protect their own sacred cow. Given how inefficient gov't is most of the cuts won't have much of a noticible effect the service thats provided because it will force people to trim some of the fat. I think that most people would be willing to go along with cuts if they see that everyone else is in the same boat.
leswp1
Well-known member
Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!
Across the board cuts when the funding for care of the Vets is inadequate to begin with is not something I am will ing to go along with because everyone else has cuts. The things that need to be cut are the 800$ toilet seats and the fluff. Unfortunately those are well entrenched and not the things that will disappear.
Well said.
Across the board cuts when the funding for care of the Vets is inadequate to begin with is not something I am will ing to go along with because everyone else has cuts. The things that need to be cut are the 800$ toilet seats and the fluff. Unfortunately those are well entrenched and not the things that will disappear.
Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!
You call them toilet seats. I call them members of management. Either way, **** is involved.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!
I think Vets already have felt enough pain. I think most of the poor (under the poverty line) probably don't have anymore blood that you can squeeze out of them. I also bet that we'll spend more time trying to squeeze blood out of those turnips then we will trying to get/save money from places that have it.
I think Vets already have felt enough pain. I think most of the poor (under the poverty line) probably don't have anymore blood that you can squeeze out of them. I also bet that we'll spend more time trying to squeeze blood out of those turnips then we will trying to get/save money from places that have it.
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!
If these types of waste are prevalent throughout the military, why wouldn't they be prevalent in the care of Vets? I agree with Kepler, we sent them into harms way, we need to pay to give them as best as possible but to take it off the table just because doesn't seem smart to me
If these types of waste are prevalent throughout the military, why wouldn't they be prevalent in the care of Vets? I agree with Kepler, we sent them into harms way, we need to pay to give them as best as possible but to take it off the table just because doesn't seem smart to me
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