Teams that should look at joining DIII after the moratorium is lifted

[davinchi]

Bates - on campus rink already exists
Montclair - on campus rink already exists
Scranton former DIII program
U mich dearborn -they might be a DI school though in other sports
UW platteville
Canton on campus rink, great tradition
Winona State-natural rivalry for St. Marys
We need new regions too
States like WA,MT,OH, PA and MI need to get more on board

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Teams that should look at joining DIII after the moratorium is lifted

SUNY Canton - Morrisville type situation
University of Rochester - I dont know if they even have a club team but Roch is a good hockey town that could use a D-III team now that RIT left
St. John Fisher - See Above
One of the Penn State satellite schools...I think Berks has a really good program?
Ithaca- Might be stuff starting a program with Cornell looming right next door.

 

[Dyce]

Re: Teams that should look at joining DIII after the moratorium is lifted

Another plus for Canton: they're in the process of building a spiffy new fieldhouse, scheduled to open in early '11, that includes a new hockey arena. I wouldn't be surprised if they make the move to the NCAA once that's in place.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Teams that should look at joining DIII after the moratorium is lifted

Canton also played Potsdam earlier this year and lost just 3-1 so they certainly already have a quality program that could make a transition to D-III much easier than Morrisville did.

 

[hawkhockey]

Re: Teams that should look at joining DIII after the moratorium is lifted

what is the DIII moratorium?when was it put in place,why was it put in place and when does it end?thanks

 

[Matt Rennell]

Re: Teams that should look at joining DIII after the moratorium is lifted

St. Michael's is going to move their hockey team to DIII in the near future,

 

[norm1909]

Re: Teams that should look at joining DIII after the moratorium is lifted

what is the DIII moratorium?when was it put in place,why was it put in place and when does it end?thanks

Some good info can be found, starting here.

See also, "Division III seeks closure on membership issue", here.

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: Teams that should look at joining DIII after the moratorium is lifted

St. Michael's is going to move their hockey team to DIII in the near future,

Wouldn't they have to change their whole program to do that? I doubt those in the basketball program would be overjoyed with that!

 

[joecct]

Re: Teams that should look at joining DIII after the moratorium is lifted

St. Michael's is going to move their hockey team to DIII in the near future,

Matt

Is St. Mike's going to reclassify from D-II to D-III? If I read my rules and regs correctly, you can't move down in one sport, you have to go whole hog and then you have at least a 2 year probationary period before you're post season eligible.

 

[Matt Rennell]

Re: Teams that should look at joining DIII after the moratorium is lifted

Matt

Is St. Mike's going to reclassify from D-II to D-III? If I read my rules and regs correctly, you can't move down in one sport, you have to go whole hog and then you have at least a 2 year probationary period before you're post season eligible.

To my knowledge, that is correct. They would be moving their entire dept to DIII. This information came from Bob Emery on Behind the Bench. Once this happens, expect St. Michael's to be added to Plattsburgh's regular schedule and that would likely mean an end to the annual game with Elmira.

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: Teams that should look at joining DIII after the moratorium is lifted

To my knowledge, that is correct. They would be moving their entire dept to DIII. This information came from Bob Emery on Behind the Bench. Once this happens, expect St. Michael's to be added to Plattsburgh's regular schedule and that would likely mean an end to the annual game with Elmira.

As a Plattsburgh fan, I would miss the annual game with Elmira. As an Elmira fan, I would DEFINITELY miss the annual game with Plattsburgh. As a fan of DIII hockey, I would most certainly miss this annual meeting of two long-time rivals and traditionally strong teams.

I understand that financially, St. Mike's is the cheapest school for Plattsburgh to play, in terms of travel cost, and Elmira is probably their most expensive OOC game. However, I would much prefer to see Plattsburgh add St. Mike's as a permanent participant of the Cardinal Classic, or perhaps replace the annual game with Williams or Skidmore.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Teams that should look at joining DIII after the moratorium is lifted

I wish Elmira and another ECAC West team like Hobart or Utica would get together with Plattsburgh and try and schedule a rotating two game series every year to make it more financially responsible for all parties involved instead of traveling all that way for one game.

Plattsburgh travels to Hobart/Elmira one weekend and then the following year Hobart and Elmira head up to Plattsburgh one weekend.

Two great games for each school to have on their schedule every year for traditionally strong teams.

 

[ballgame]

Re: Teams that should look at joining DIII after the moratorium is lifted

Im not so sure most of these teams would join NCAA. There are huge Title IX issues and most schools are struggling for funds. Im sure Norm has info to go against this but that’s what I hear when I talk to ACHA programs.
We play Montclair and can tell you they wont be going NCAA anytime soon.
No Penn State on here?
Lindenwood?
Illinois?

I will say NCAA needs to do something soon about this issue because each year ACHA gets closer and closer to NCAA level(DIII). If they wait another 5 years they’ll be competing for the same players. Im head coach for a ACHA program and I played at Elmira. So Im not completely bias towards ACHA, I understand NCAA. Ill be clear, ACHA is NOT NCAA. It is what it is. But I have 3 kids on my team that are NCAA DIII overflows with 2 more looking to transfer in next semester. And Im a mid level ACHA program. A team in our league has 6 kids from Europe and 10 kids from the AJ and EJ Jr leagues. That doesn’t necessarily make them good, but it shows ACHA programs are organized and with resources get players. With the talent pool getting bigger and NCAA staying the same players need places to play.
Don’t flame me, just my 2 cents

Someone was telling me that NCAA is actually in the works for a NCAA DIV to absorb ACHA. No idea if that’s true or not.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Teams that should look at joining DIII after the moratorium is lifted

Im not so sure most of these teams would join NCAA. There are huge Title IX issues and most schools are struggling for funds. Im sure Norm has info to go against this but that’s what I hear when I talk to ACHA programs.
We play Montclair and can tell you they wont be going NCAA anytime soon.
No Penn State on here?
Lindenwood?
Illinois?

I will say NCAA needs to do something soon about this issue because each year ACHA gets closer and closer to NCAA level(DIII). If they wait another 5 years they’ll be competing for the same players. Im head coach for a ACHA program and I played at Elmira. So Im not completely bias towards ACHA, I understand NCAA. Ill be clear, ACHA is NOT NCAA. It is what it is. But I have 3 kids on my team that are NCAA DIII overflows with 2 more looking to transfer in next semester. And Im a mid level ACHA program. A team in our league has 6 kids from Europe and 10 kids from the AJ and EJ Jr leagues. That doesn’t necessarily make them good, but it shows ACHA programs are organized and with resources get players. With the talent pool getting bigger and NCAA staying the same players need places to play.
Don’t flame me, just my 2 cents

Someone was telling me that NCAA is actually in the works for a NCAA DIV to absorb ACHA. No idea if that’s true or not.

You are right on about the Title IX influence, the NCAA's "Sports Requirements for the Division III Membership" can be seen here, and as evidenced, an EQUAL number of Men and Women's teams must be fielded (*Not required to have a team sport each season - but must be balanced on an annual basis).

I also agree that funding is a HUGE issue, particularly with the current state of the economy. Switching from ACHA to NCAA not only requires huge infrastructure and operational costs (NCAA mammoth bureaucracy vs ACHA one-sport bureaucracy), it also means giving up revenue - remember, in addition to their academic expenses, ACHA players usually PAY-to-play.

I haven't seen nor heard of concerted efforts to merge the NCAA & ACHA programs, but conceptually, I could see collaboration similar to the USA Hockey/ACHA agreement, particularly since the NCAA & ACHA already share so many common goals and rules.

There is, however, this "carrot".

 

[NUProf]

Re: Teams that should look at joining DIII after the moratorium is lifted

You are right on about the Title IX influence, the NCAA's "Sports Requirements for the Division III Membership" can be seen here, and as evidenced, an EQUAL number of Men and Women's teams must be fielded (*Not required to have a team sport each season - but must be balanced on an annual basis).

Just a technical comment (doesn't mean that it doesn't have an effect on the decision process.) It's not title IX, but rather a DIII rule - the title IX rules are about expenditures of funds and participation opportunities (with a broad enough exception to not squeeze football too much, since no women's sport can provide the 80 participation opportunities that FB does, or cost as much as FB). This rule from the NCAA is about the number of teams, which is a different metric. You can fail to comply with Title IX even though the number of teams you have "balance."

DII does not have these kind of rules.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Teams that should look at joining DIII after the moratorium is lifted

Just a technical comment (doesn't mean that it doesn't have an effect on the decision process.) It's not title IX, but rather a DIII rule - the title IX rules are about expenditures of funds and participation opportunities (with a broad enough exception to not squeeze football too much, since no women's sport can provide the 80 participation opportunities that FB does, or cost as much as FB). This rule from the NCAA is about the number of teams, which is a different metric. You can fail to comply with Title IX even though the number of teams you have "balance."

DII does not have these kind of rules.

Yes, which is why I worded it as "Title IX influence", as noted it is a DIII rule.

 

[elbojpb]

I'd nominate Union

I'd nominate Union

Historically they've struggled at D1 for lack of scholarships, but primarily to have the Union poster UnionHockeyManiac who started a war on the D1 boards in a thread called Never Won vs Never Been or something like that.

I'ts a great read if you're bummed and have a couple of hours.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Teams that should look at joining DIII after the moratorium is lifted

Bates - on campus rink already exists
Montclair - on campus rink already exists
Scranton former DIII program
U mich dearborn -they might be a DI school though in other sports
UW platteville
Canton on campus rink, great tradition
Winona State-natural rivalry for St. Marys
We need new regions too
States like WA,MT,OH, PA and MI need to get more on board

There is a massive amount of confusion here, propagated by Preze's post right after yours.

Many of the schools you and Prez list are already NCAA DIII members.

There is no moratorium against those schools adding teams in any sport they see fit.

The moratorium is against schools joining the NCAA (like Canton). Not schools who are already members of the NCAA, unless they want to move down to DIII (which Winona would have to do, but they certainly don't have any desire to).

Ithaca (which has never shown any interest in creating a hockey team), Montclair, Bates, Rochester (they do have a club team, and will not go varsity in hockey), St. John Fisher, Scranton (which certainly will not go back to attempt hockey after the colossal failure the last time around when the school never cared about the sport) can all form a DIII hockey team at any time if they so desire.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Teams that should look at joining DIII after the moratorium is lifted

Canton also played Potsdam earlier this year and lost just 3-1 so they certainly already have a quality program that could make a transition to D-III much easier than Morrisville did.

Potsdam outshot Canton, 48-18, and from the middle of the first period, the game was essentially played entirely in Canton's zone. The only thing that kept the game close was Canton's goaltender who was making one outstanding save after another.

I wouldn't put Canton into the quality program category, and quite frankly, I doubt Morrisville would have a tough time beating Canton.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Teams that should look at joining DIII after the moratorium is lifted

How about bringing UConn back to DIII, that was an embarrassing display of hockey in Rochester this weekend (take nothing away from RIT). 2-6, 0-7 loses.