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Super Bowl XLVIII and NFL Thread: Sherman's March to Jersey

Re: Super Bowl XLVIII and NFL Thread: Sherman's March to Jersey

There was talk that Pete Carroll joined Barry Switzer and Jimmy Johnson as the only coach to win an NCAA and NFL title. But, if USC's title was #vacated, does it count for the coach?

Pete Carroll is drip slime for what he did at USC and then had the gall to leave as sanctions were handed down. He's scum.
 
Re: Super Bowl XLVIII and NFL Thread: Sherman's March to Jersey

Speaking of Twatters, I'm amazed at how many morons suddenly added a spammer account on the promise of Esurances $1.5 Million. All people needed to do was use a hashtag. They didn't need to follow spammers.

I'm hoping that the parody accounts are secretly being run by Esurance to disqualify anyone who follows or retweets those accounts, because if they're stupid enough to get fooled by Twitter they're stupid enough to blow $1.5 million without doing anything useful with it.

As for the Coke commercial, I think Spanish is the first language in it. If it's not, it's what drew me to the commercial and I immediately knew it was going to cause outrage because "Those danged illegals are takin' our jobs and now they're takin' our Coke and 'Murica too!!!111!" Sadly, I cannot tell between people who are serious and people who are trolling on Twitter and Facebook because the trolls are even having a hard time matching the extremes of the bigots viewpoints.
 
Re: Super Bowl XLVIII and NFL Thread: Sherman's March to Jersey

I believe only one of Carroll's USC wins was vacated.

Other two time SB winning QB's were Plunkett and Staubach I believe.

Plunkett beat a one shot wonder Eagles team (who I was rooting heavily for) and a very good Redskins team.

Staubach beat....a one shot wonder Denver team and maybe Miami??? earlier on which was a great team. He lost twice to the best team of the SB era, the 70's Steelers.

So...if I had to rank the multiple SB winners in order of toughest competition, I'd say:

1) Bradshaw
2) Staubach
3) Brady
4) Montana
5) Elway
6) E Manning
7) Plunkett
8) Aikman
9) Rothlisberger

Mind you, this isn't who's the best QB. Just who had the toughest competition in the SB. I put Brady on top of Montana because as great as SF was, they never faced a team as good as the Rams team the Pats beat.
 
Re: Super Bowl XLVIII and NFL Thread: Sherman's March to Jersey

Mind you, this isn't who's the best QB. Just who had the toughest competition in the SB. I put Brady on top of Montana because as great as SF was, they never faced a team as good as the Rams team the Pats beat.
On the other hand, Brady was a passenger when the Pats beat the Rams. The MVP of that game should've been "getting away with defensive pass interference," or, more realistically, Antowain Smith.
 
Re: Super Bowl XLVIII and NFL Thread: Sherman's March to Jersey

I was thinking before the game that Peyton's legacy should be fine regardless of the outcome. After that debacle I think his legacy should be tarnished forever. That has got to be the worse prep for a Super Bowl by a team since Minnesota played the Raiders.
I really don't understand the thought process that Manning's "legacy" depended upon the outcome of this game, or any Super Bowl. My response to anyone's argument that a quarterback's legacy is made or destroyed by Super Bowl outcomes is two words: Trent Dilfer.

Trent Dilfer was a horrible quarterback. There are probably 20 quarterbacks in the league right now that any of us would take over Dilfer, let alone comparing him to the all-time greats. He was just lucky enough to play on a team that had one of the greatest defenses of all time.

I think Jim Kelly was an outstanding quarterback. Maybe top 20 all time in the NFL. Yet who has a worse Super Bowl record than Kelly for quarterbacks?

Winning a Super Bowl is a team game, and is dependent upon so many factors outside the control of the quarterback. The Tom Brady who beat the Rams wasn't anywhere near the Tom Brady who nearly went undefeated, only to be upset by a Giants team with an outstanding defense.

You take guys like Aikman or Bradshaw. They played on teams that had outstanding defenses, at or near the top in the league. They had the best offensive lines, and hall of fame running backs.

Purely on the playing the position of quarterback none of us have seen anyone better than Manning.
 
Re: Super Bowl XLVIII and NFL Thread: Sherman's March to Jersey

Peyton Manning didn't even have that bad of a game. 2 INT, yes. One of which was his fault on an overthrow the other was a tipped pass that hung up in the air. Otherwise he had 34-49 completions (SB record) for 280 Yds and the 1 TD.

The problem was the entire team didn't play well. Defense got zero stops, special teams gave up big plays, etc. Peyton doesn't play in those 2 phases of the game, so I am not sure how he can shoulder the blame there.

There was a few dropped passes and then of course Seattle's defense played outstanding the rest of the time.
 
Re: Super Bowl XLVIII and NFL Thread: Sherman's March to Jersey

Purely on the playing the position of quarterback none of us have seen anyone better than Manning.

I guess that depends upon how old you are. I'd rate Bart Starr higher. Hard to compare across eras, but defenses were allowed much more leeway back then. His completion percentage and game management skills were exceptional. and if you count winning titles, then it's something like 5 titles out of 7 years or something ridiculous like that.

Of course, that comes with the package of having Lombardi as coach, an offensive line that could block cohesively, and a strong running game that could set up play action quite nicely.
 
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Brady didn't "inexplicably" lose twice to mediocre Giants teams that got hot at the right time. He lost twice to the Giants because he's not that good.

and the more you think about it... was only able to be a crappy panthers team and a awfulistic andy reid team by a fg!

GLA could easily be 1-4
 
Re: Super Bowl XLVIII and NFL Thread: Sherman's March to Jersey

and the more you think about it... was only able to be a crappy panthers team and a awfulistic andy reid team by a fg!

GLA could easily be 1-4

And just as easily 5-0...so what...don't forget who he destroyed on the road before he beat the Eagles.
 
Re: Super Bowl XLVIII and NFL Thread: Sherman's March to Jersey

I guess that depends upon how old you are. I'd rate Bart Starr higher. Hard to compare across eras, but defenses were allowed much more leeway back then. His completion percentage and game management skills were exceptional. and if you count winning titles, then it's something like 5 titles out of 7 years or something ridiculous like that.

Of course, that comes with the package of having Lombardi as coach, an offensive line that could block cohesively, and a strong running game that could set up play action quite nicely.

The case for Bart Starr includes:

* 5 NFL Championships (including the first two Super Bowls) in 6 trips to the title game;
* Quarterback of the ONLY team in NFL history to win three consecutive NFL titles (1965-1967);
* Postseason record of 9-1, with the only loss being in his first trip to the title game in 1960, when they simply ran out of time while driving deep into Philadelphia territory, when MVP Chuck Bednaik tackled and sat on Jim Taylor inside the 10 yard line;
* At time of his retirement, he held the best career completion percentage (57.4%);
* At time of his retirement, he was tied with Johnny Unitas for best yards per attempt (7.8);
* Played in an era where defenses DID have much more leeway, with no defensive holding, no illegal contact ("chuck rule" which came into play in the mid-70's), head-slaps were allowed for defensive linemen, intentional grounding was not codified and allowed as it is in the present, and roughing the passer calls were for VERY late hits only;
* Starr's best teams went head-to-head with Johnny U and the Baltimore Colts, who were in their prime and had already won two NFL titles ('58-'59) in the years immediately proceeding Green Bay's run ... with the last few relevant Detroit Lions teams, who also had won multiple NFL titles in the years before the Colts ... the Chicago Bears, who were George Halas' last best teams in his storied career, and won the title game in 1963, and who featured Gayle Sayers and Dick Butkus in the years that followed ... in the SAME 7 team division, where only the winner made the postseason;
* Starr's last two title teams would also have to overcome emerging teams like the Dallas Cowboys and the LA Rams, who featured the two dominant defenses of their time (what would become the "Doomsday Defense" and the "Fearsome Foursome" respectively) in the NFL playoffs, before going on to overmatch the AFL champions in the first two Super Bowls;
* Starr's postseason stats included 15 TD's vs. 3 INT's, a 61.0% completion percentage, and 8.23 yards per attempt - ALL off the charts great for any era, but even more so for the era in which he played.

But since it all happened before the advent of ESPN, of course, none of this counts ... :rolleyes: :mad:
 
Re: Super Bowl XLVIII and NFL Thread: Sherman's March to Jersey

Quarterback is an extremely hard position to compare, especially between eras. You have a guy like Dan Fouts, who was just insane with the Chargers for many years, but they never had much of a defense, so he didn't see the playoff success that some lesser quarterbacks did. Similar with Marino. Or go back to a guy like Otto Graham, who was amazing in the 50s. I don't know how you really differentiate those guys in the very top tier. Quarterback is both the most important position in regard to team success and the position where stats and success is the most dependent on the surrounding cast.
 
Re: Super Bowl XLVIII and NFL Thread: Sherman's March to Jersey

As a Packer fan, I appreciate you efforts regarding Starr. Of course, being born in 69, I never saw him play and only remember him as an ineffective head coach from when I was first following the Pack.

I just don't put any stock into GOAT arguments even when a player for one of my teams may be up for consideration. I'm not sure why so many feel obliged to rank everything and everyone. How about... "He's one of the best ever and here's what he accomplished..."

There's just too many that have had great careers in their own right for me to ever pick one over another.


I do wonder if there are any teams with as many of the all time greats as the Packers will have if Rodgers continues on his current trajectory though. We've been fortunate.
 
Re: Super Bowl XLVIII and NFL Thread: Sherman's March to Jersey

I do wonder if there are any teams with as many of the all time greats as the Packers will have if Rodgers continues on his current trajectory though. We've been fortunate.

I wonder how much (if at all) their long-time success is tied to their unique ownership structure. They are one of the few teams that do not have to "maximize" their "short-term financial profit" and so can take a longer, more holistic view toward constructing teams.
 
Re: Super Bowl XLVIII and NFL Thread: Sherman's March to Jersey

I wonder how much (if at all) their long-time success is tied to their unique ownership structure. They are one of the few teams that do not have to "maximize" their "short-term financial profit" and so can take a longer, more holistic view toward constructing teams.


Maybe so now, but the 70s & 80s were a horrible, horrible time. Lynn Dickey put up some good numbers for a bit though when we had no defense whatsoever to help out.

To be honest, I think they just caught lightning twice with Favre and Rodgers. There's no question that Holmgren could develop QBs and McCarthy seems to be good at it too, but they both had some pretty talented students to groom. It's not like Favre or Rodgers are/were system quarterbacks.
 
Re: Super Bowl XLVIII and NFL Thread: Sherman's March to Jersey

Sorry but I'm not buying this Peyton Manning best ever stuff. At the end of the day, winning matters which I feel is a concept lost on Statsnerd Nation.

Look, this affects Brady as well. You can run up stats as a QB against bad teams all day. Its what you do against good teams in the playoffs that matter.

Bradshaw is a great example. Career stats are okay, only made one Pro-Bowl I believe. I saw him play towards the tail end of his career. What I remember of him is that while he could be handing off to Franco Harris all day, when you needed him to make a play to win the game he would. You can't say that about a lot of his peers. In fact he took a concusion on the play where he threw the game winning TD against Dallas in one Super Bowl.

Another one is Montana. Playing in two close Super Bowls, he didn't screw up. You can't say that about Brady or Manning in their SB's. Brady and Manning may throw for more yards and TD's than Montana, but they simply weren't as good. Blowing opportunities on the biggest stage counts against you, while being almost flawless counts in your favor. Manning's media overexposure gets him maybe a bit more scorn than he deserves but he does have to face the music on his post season record.
 
Re: Super Bowl XLVIII and NFL Thread: Sherman's March to Jersey

So we have canned jingoism xenophobia and racism? Outstanding. Thanks, internet. Unfortunately these idiots have made enough of an impression that they have some voice in society.

What I was suggesting is one way to 'support' one party would be to go on and 'support' the other's most radical views.

There are idiots, and they have some of the most repulsive views...the way to capitalize on that is to make sure they aren't represented on only .001% of the tweets.

Let's say you support the tuck rule and I don't...what I do is insert the pro-tuck rule voice into sensitive matters such as pro-tuck rule people think the DC firefighters shouldn't have helped the guy dying on the street. Or, pro-tuck rule people want someone to graft the head of a doberman on a chihuahua.

And everytime I go out and do that, 5 of my team go out and make sure "everybody" sees the repulsive tweet and how bad the pro-tuck rule people are.
 
Re: Super Bowl XLVIII and NFL Thread: Sherman's March to Jersey

Sorry but I'm not buying this Peyton Manning best ever stuff. At the end of the day, winning matters which I feel is a concept lost on Statsnerd Nation.

Look, this affects Brady as well. You can run up stats as a QB against bad teams all day. Its what you do against good teams in the playoffs that matter.

Bradshaw is a great example. Career stats are okay, only made one Pro-Bowl I believe. I saw him play towards the tail end of his career. What I remember of him is that while he could be handing off to Franco Harris all day, when you needed him to make a play to win the game he would. You can't say that about a lot of his peers. In fact he took a concusion on the play where he threw the game winning TD against Dallas in one Super Bowl.

Another one is Montana. Playing in two close Super Bowls, he didn't screw up. You can't say that about Brady or Manning in their SB's. Brady and Manning may throw for more yards and TD's than Montana, but they simply weren't as good. Blowing opportunities on the biggest stage counts against you, while being almost flawless counts in your favor. Manning's media overexposure gets him maybe a bit more scorn than he deserves but he does have to face the music on his post season record.

Trent Dilfer didnt screw up either, does that make him better than Brady or Manning? Rob Johnson? It is too much of a team sport to hang that on the QB. Maybe those guys didn't make mistakes because they didnt have to take as many risks. Doesn't saying that Bradshaw could hand off all day and only need to make a play here and there kind of defeat your own argument? If Manning just handed off all day and made a play here or there do you think the Broncos are in the Superbowl?
 
Re: Super Bowl XLVIII and NFL Thread: Sherman's March to Jersey

Sorry but I'm not buying this Peyton Manning best ever stuff. At the end of the day, winning matters which I feel is a concept lost on Statsnerd Nation.

Look, this affects Brady as well. You can run up stats as a QB against bad teams all day. Its what you do against good teams in the playoffs that matter.

As that noted football philosopher Herm Edwards once said ... "You play to win the game". NOT "you play to fill out your stat sheet so someone can win their fantasy league". :rolleyes:

Bradshaw is a great example. Career stats are okay, only made one Pro-Bowl I believe. I saw him play towards the tail end of his career. What I remember of him is that while he could be handing off to Franco Harris all day, when you needed him to make a play to win the game he would. You can't say that about a lot of his peers. In fact he took a concusion on the play where he threw the game winning TD against Dallas in one Super Bowl.

Another one is Montana. Playing in two close Super Bowls, he didn't screw up. You can't say that about Brady or Manning in their SB's. Brady and Manning may throw for more yards and TD's than Montana, but they simply weren't as good. Blowing opportunities on the biggest stage counts against you, while being almost flawless counts in your favor. Manning's media overexposure gets him maybe a bit more scorn than he deserves but he does have to face the music on his post season record.

Bradshaw and Joe Namath - another guy who gets unjust criticism when introduced into these discussions by folks who never saw him play - are two guys who threw the best deep balls I've ever seen in my 45+ years of watching football. Because both of these guys (more so Namath), and the likes of Starr and Unitas did NOT have the benefit of the evolving rules that encouraged a shorter passing game, there used to be a LOT more downfield throws then as opposed to now, and a lot more INT's and less TD's too. The short TD pass has padded a LOT of guys' stats since the 1980's too ... keep in mind, before that, there was no 5 yard limitation on contact, and virtually no defensive holding either. So defenders could stay in contact with receivers in the end zone in red zone situations, where that's something you simply can't do anymore. And PI is called WAY more frequently now than in the past.

The fact Johnny Unitas' consecutive games with a passing TD stood for 52 years speaks volumes to the level of that accomplishment and that he won two NFL titles during that stretch validates it further. Unitas is also the guy who had the biggest gap between his 3 NFL titles (11 years between 1959 and SB V in 1970), which is something the pro-Brady faction should be targeting in a year or two.

Unitas and Starr were Manning and Brady before those two were even born ... and Unitas and Starr called their own plays too, so when the ESPN talking heads say "Manning revolutionized the game by calling his plays at the line" let's not get too carried away with that. :)
 
Re: Super Bowl XLVIII and NFL Thread: Sherman's March to Jersey

Trent Dilfer didnt screw up either, does that make him better than Brady or Manning? Rob Johnson? It is too much of a team sport to hang that on the QB. Maybe those guys didn't make mistakes because they didnt have to take as many risks. Doesn't saying that Bradshaw could hand off all day and only need to make a play here and there kind of defeat your own argument? If Manning just handed off all day and made a play here or there do you think the Broncos are in the Superbowl?

You're subscribing to the exception proves the rule argument. Trent Dilfer, like Rob Johnson, is an anomaly. I'd say Joe Flacco is too. Now look at the SB winners who are HoF'ers (or will be). Starr, Bradshaw, Staubach, Montana, Young, Favre, Brady, Elway, etc etc.

Manning has an inability to take over a game against good teams. His only Super Bowl victory was against one of the worst teams to ever make it that far. Also his teams in Indy were far more complete than his supporters like to remember. They had a great pass rush and the safety won defensive player of the year one year. He also had a good running game to back him up. Manning's problem is ill advised picks. That's by and large his fault, much like he never should have heaved that pass with someone in his face that got run back for a Pick 6 in this SB. He's basically Dan Marino only if Marino got to play a tomato can like the '06 Chicago Bears in the Super Bowl instead of going up against a dynasty in SF.
 
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