State of D-II Hockey

[HawksHockey]

Do you think that waiting 22 tears for a solution to a problem the College created is cause for many hockey supporters Amato be a little angry ? In 2016 735 former players , parents and supporters sent a petition to the College asking them to address this hockey “ problem “ . No response !
what supporters are asking for is “ if “ the College decides to make the move to D1 in hockey that the school funds it so the program can compete . 18 full scholarships over 4 years is a more than reasonable . If AIC , Bentley, Mercyhurst, Niagara , Sacred Heart , Merrimack etc have decided to fund the appropriately, doesn t it make sense to follow suit .
Not sure where your Hockey East comment is coming from but the issue is funding at a legitimate D1 level , the league is secondary .
How does advocating adequate funding for a hockey program hurt and insult the student athletes ?
The attendance has dropped dramatically since 2015 when the started parlaying this NE-10: schedule , so it isn’t just the alumni that are not happy with the direction of the program and playing in a D1 light league against the same teams won.t help
The hockey community want the College to support the program the same way the alumni have supported it for years .
Without a commitment for 18:scholarships , they can call it D1 but it isn’t
But here is one thought to consider .
if the basketball team is given 10 scholarships ( NCAA max) to be competitive in D2 , why shouldn’t t the hockey team receive 18:to be competitive inD1 ?

I totally understand the anger and frustration. It appears as if there were several opportunities to make a move of any kind across the past 20-25 years but those weren't taken. That is certainly upsetting.

Recent comments from the alumni group in a local newspaper telling other schools to come and recruit the women's ice hockey team's top goalie via the transfer portal was disgraceful. The disgruntled alum also said that the wins against non-league teams (Maine, Dartmouth) "aren't fun" for the student-athletes due to the shot differential (did anyone ask the players if beating these two teams was fun? I bet you it was fun.).

Scholarships have only been available to NEWHA schools for literally just a few years, but the alums (and ONLY Saint Anselm alums) are making excuses for why this success (against one fully-funded scholarship program you speak of) doesn't count. The programs should be funded properly - I do agree. However, the NEWHA just recently started offering scholarships and the negative commentary is made only out of spite... real sad.

That type of rhetoric hurts the team, hurts the student-athletes and hurts the institution that these alumni claim to love.

The current NE10 schedule is bad, just like you said - totally agree. It's not great to play the same school four or five times. However, sounds like this alumni group doesn't like these new plans for a proposed league... So what's the solution, then? Add these 18 full scholarships and become one of 15 NCAA Division I independent teams? Doesn't make sense. Something has to be done, however, and it doesn't sound like ANY existing league is presently accepting ANY institution... which is where these talks for a new conference stem from.

Just because a program has 18 full scholarships, doesn't mean you're good - only five institutions have ever won a women's National Championship. It's about more than that.

If you're mentioning attendance as a measurement of alumni satisfaction, alumni not coming to games due to their anger at the school is totally unacceptable. Alums withholding support, even of the moral variety, due to their anger from 25 years ago says it all... it doesn't hurt the school, it hurts the players.

I get the anger, as I said, but the actions taken by radical alumni is malicious, self-serving, not productive and certainly NOT about supporting student-athletes, which is what it should be all about.

 

[hawkhockey]

I totally understand the anger and frustration. It appears as if there were several opportunities to make a move of any kind across the past 20-25 years but those weren't taken. That is certainly upsetting.

Recent comments from the alumni group in a local newspaper telling other schools to come and recruit the women's ice hockey team's top goalie via the transfer portal was disgraceful. The disgruntled alum also said that the wins against non-league teams (Maine, Dartmouth) "aren't fun" for the student-athletes due to the shot differential (did anyone ask the players if beating these two teams was fun? I bet you it was fun.).

Scholarships have only been available to NEWHA schools for literally just a few years, but the alums (and ONLY Saint Anselm alums) are making excuses for why this success (against these fully-funded scholarship programs you speak of) doesn't count. The programs should be funded properly - I do agree. However, the NEWHA just recently started offering scholarships and the negative commentary is made only out of spite... real sad.

That type of rhetoric hurts the team, hurts the student-athletes and hurts the institution that these alumni claim to love.

The current NE10 schedule is bad, just like you said - totally agree. It's not great to play the same school four or five times. However, sounds like this alumni group doesn't like these new plans for a proposed league... So what's the solution, then? Add these 18 full scholarships and become one of 15 NCAA Division I independent teams? Doesn't make sense. Something has to be done, however, and it doesn't sound like ANY existing league is presently accepting ANY institution... which is where these talks for a new conference stem from.

Just because a program has 18 full scholarships, doesn't mean you're good - only five institutions have ever won a women's National Championship. It's about more than that.

If you're mentioning attendance as a measurement of alumni satisfaction, alumni not coming to games due to their anger at the school is totally unacceptable. Alums withholding support, even of the moral variety, due to their anger from 25 years ago says it all... it doesn't hurt the school, it hurts the players.

I get the anger, as I said, but the actions taken by radical alumni is malicious, self-serving, not productive and certainly NOT about supporting student-athletes, which is what it should be all about.

Ok, let's clear up a couple of points so we are on that same page with the same information
1 I read the article . The alumnus did not advocate that any team poach the Saint Anselm goalie. Remember , she is good but also a transfer from Quinnipiac. He was trying to point out that a fully funded program could wait on a player to see how they did on a NEWHA team and THEN offer the woman a full scholarship.

2 The wins aginst the three D1 teams was interesting and just showed how a really good goalie can influence a game. In all games they were outshot 2-1 and two of the teams do not offer scholarships. as to the fun aspect , beating a 5 handicap golfer wjhen you are a 18 is fun , but it is not going to happen all the time and then it isn't exactly fun.
Actually, the "fun" comment came from a former StA's goalie that had played at Ohio State.

3 May be the fact that only StA's is complaining is really due to the fact that they are the only ones that care.

4 We want to be in a league but one that is able to compete against the best . 5 partial scholarships won't allow that.

5 Unrequited love is not what this is all about. The college wants to say" hey we are now D1, what's the big deal ?" Sorry it doesn't t work that way.

6 5 teams have won the NCAA's in women's hockey. all are fully funded with 18 scholarships

7 The "anger" is not anger per see but disappointment and not willing to be ignored except for fundraising , which is what the college only appears to be interested in.

8 The alumni are supporting the team and the kids by advocating for them and the program.
If withholding money gets peoples attention , then so be it . As to attending games , would you drive , pay and attend a UNH game if they were playing Endicott College, as an example ?
Alumni attended the Bowdoin, Norwich, Middlebury games when we played them, no scholarships vs no scholarships . Who's fault is it they don't want to see StA's play Pierce of Post 3x ?
The alumni ?

 

[hawkhockey]

Sorry for the diatribe about Saint Anselm. as to discuss their particular position and issues was not my intent in my original post,
The question I had is are there any D1 hockey teams that are successful and competitive on a national basis that does not offer 18 full non need athletic scholarships ?
I get the Harvards and the occasional Union type successes, but are they anomalies? My sense they are are and Harvard, Yale are a little different than most D1 programs.
The AHA went to 18 in in 2016 and this year Union and RIT were given a waiver to give athletic scholarships in hockey and can remain a D3 in all other sports.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Sorry for the diatribe about Saint Anselm. as to discuss their particular position and issues was not my intent in my original post,
The question I had is are there any D1 hockey teams that are successful and competitive on a national basis that does not offer 18 full non need athletic scholarships ?
I get the Harvards and the occasional Union type successes, but are they anomalies? My sense they are are and Harvard, Yale are a little different than most D1 programs.
The AHA went to 18 in in 2016 and this year Union and RIT were given a waiver to give athletic scholarships in hockey and can remain a D3 in all other sports.

Obviously, like you state, the Ivy League schools are a different circumstance, so I wouldn't consider them as an answer to your question.

Therefore, just Union, which won a national title. I definitely would consider that an anomoly. There may be others in other sports, but I don't know about them. Bottom line is, it is rare.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Being reported on Hoopsville that sources are saying Nichols is applying to move up to Division II as well as applying to join the Northeast-10. They also mention Nichols joins Utica in these moves. Will be interesting to see what that means for Nichols' hockey team.

 

[SNHUPenman]

Being reported on Hoopsville that sources are saying Nichols is applying to move up to Division II as well as applying to join the Northeast-10. They also mention Nichols joins Utica in these moves. Will be interesting to see what that means for Nichols' hockey team.

That is super interesting. So, it would be presumed then that Nichols would be looking to elevate hockey to DI - possibly in this new rumored conference that Utica has been linked to as well? Good get for the NE10 otherwise. But the hockey piece is certainly the biggest hurdle.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

That is super interesting. So, it would be presumed then that Nichols would be looking to elevate hockey to DI - possibly in this new rumored conference that Utica has been linked to as well? Good get for the NE10 otherwise. But the hockey piece is certainly the biggest hurdle.

Assuming they even keep hockey. I have no idea how hockey fits into the Nichols sports/student body culture.

 

[JSicedog]

Nichols home arena is 45 minutes from their campus. A new rink would be a start.

 

[SNHUPenman]

This was from an interview over at CHN w/ Bob DeGregorio:

CHN: You touched upon this a bit earlier, but you recently met with several schools such as Utica, Southern New Hampshire, Stonehill about forming their own D-I conference. I know you said what your hope is, but how do you see that playing out in say the next five years?

DeGregorio: We’ve had a couple of calls. Our goal ideally would be to start in 2023-24 if we can do that. If we can’t because we can’t get enough schools to commit, it will be 2024-25. We need a minimum of six to do that and we’re dealing with 10 or 11 right now that have expressed interest. We’re going to be making a decision no later than November 1st. But our goal is to form a new league and here we go again talking about the growth. All of a sudden if you add eight or 10 more schools, and can jump to 70, 75 schools that would be our goal. I’ve agreed to work with them in the next two to three years to help them move this league forward and hopefully we’ll be able to get to the six. Would be great if we could start next year, but even if we don’t we may pull those four teams together and put together a schedule to help them with their scheduling which would be very important moving forward and then work together to get two to four more ready to play by 2024-25. Once they come together as a league, they play against each other for two years in a round-robin setting, have a league championship to go for and they would all be eligible for an at-large bid in the NCAA Tournament. After two years, we should be qualified for the NCAA Tournament.

So, if this holds true. There should be SOME news within a month now.

 

[SNHUPenman]

This was from an interview over at CHN w/ Bob DeGregorio:

CHN: You touched upon this a bit earlier, but you recently met with several schools such as Utica, Southern New Hampshire, Stonehill about forming their own D-I conference. I know you said what your hope is, but how do you see that playing out in say the next five years?

DeGregorio: We’ve had a couple of calls. Our goal ideally would be to start in 2023-24 if we can do that. If we can’t because we can’t get enough schools to commit, it will be 2024-25. We need a minimum of six to do that and we’re dealing with 10 or 11 right now that have expressed interest. We’re going to be making a decision no later than November 1st. But our goal is to form a new league and here we go again talking about the growth. All of a sudden if you add eight or 10 more schools, and can jump to 70, 75 schools that would be our goal. I’ve agreed to work with them in the next two to three years to help them move this league forward and hopefully we’ll be able to get to the six. Would be great if we could start next year, but even if we don’t we may pull those four teams together and put together a schedule to help them with their scheduling which would be very important moving forward and then work together to get two to four more ready to play by 2024-25. Once they come together as a league, they play against each other for two years in a round-robin setting, have a league championship to go for and they would all be eligible for an at-large bid in the NCAA Tournament. After two years, we should be qualified for the NCAA Tournament.

So, if this holds true. There should be SOME news within a month now.

No news...

 

[Fishman'81]

Being reported on Hoopsville that sources are saying Nichols is applying to move up to Division II as well as applying to join the Northeast-10. They also mention Nichols joins Utica in these moves. Will be interesting to see what that means for Nichols' hockey team.

Russ, how would this benefit either Nichols or Utica? I don't see the up-side for either school.

Looked at the D-1 PW today, and is it really true that Stonehill is in the mix? That program was awful in D-3, and it's dead-last in D-1.

Guess I'm missing something here.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Russ, how would this benefit either Nichols or Utica? I don't see the up-side for either school.

Looked at the D-1 PW today, and is it really true that Stonehill is in the mix? That program was awful in D-3, and it's dead-last in D-1.

Guess I'm missing something here.

I don't pretend to get into the minds of school adminstrators...

I don't understand about Stonehill. They are not playing enough D1 opponents to be considered having a D1 schedule. I think they did declare as D1 (being one of those D2 limbo teams), but I still thought you first have to play a D1 schedule before you "count." The women are definitely playing a D1 schedule, so they're fine. I'll have to ask around.

 

[Jensen35]

I don't pretend to get into the minds of school adminstrators...

I don't understand about Stonehill. They are not playing enough D1 opponents to be considered having a D1 schedule. I think they did declare as D1 (being one of those D2 limbo teams), but I still thought you first have to play a D1 schedule before you "count." The women are definitely playing a D1 schedule, so they're fine. I'll have to ask around.

I would think the issue is they declared so late in the summer most other DI schools had their schedules already set so they are playing the same they did last year with some DI's added in at the front and back side of the schedule.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

I would think the issue is they declared so late in the summer most other DI schools had their schedules already set so they are playing the same they did last year with some DI's added in at the front and back side of the schedule.

I know. But you have to play a minimum number of D1 opponents to be considered to have a D1 schedule and thus to have those games count on the opponents D1 schedule. Just making a declaration doesn’t mean anything.

 

[Jensen35]

I know. But you have to play a minimum number of D1 opponents to be considered to have a D1 schedule and thus to have those games count on the opponents D1 schedule. Just making a declaration doesn’t mean anything.

what is that minimum? I see they have 5 games with DI's on their schedule. I would tend to think this is not enough, but the NCAA never disappoints with its rules. LOL.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

what is that minimum? I see they have 5 games with DI's on their schedule. I would tend to think this is not enough, but the NCAA never disappoints with its rules. LOL.

Way more than five.

Some of those D2 games may actually count.

You're allowed 34 games for a D1 schedule, so I think it’s either 2/3 or 3/4 of that has to be against D1 teams.

 

[hawkhockey]

Any update on the new D1 League ? I thought I read there was going to be some news by Nov.1. Keep hearing that one of the big hangups is the number of scholarships and head count vs equivalencies that would be allowed to be a member . A couple of teams want equivalencies ( the D2 model in most of their sports), and a few want head count . The issue with head count is how many up to the NCAA max.? Degregorio seems to be silent on the number needed to be competitive, dancing around the question. He has said he would leave it up to the members to decide how many . This is odd as it would have a league with an " interesting " funding disparity that could result in lopsided games and coming from him he is on record as saying the Atlantic Hockey needed 18 head count ( up from the original 10/11) to be competitive nationally.

 

[SNHUPenman]

Any update on the new D1 League ? I thought I read there was going to be some news by Nov.1. Keep hearing that one of the big hangups is the number of scholarships and head count vs equivalencies that would be allowed to be a member . A couple of teams want equivalencies ( the D2 model in most of their sports), and a few want head count . The issue with head count is how many up to the NCAA max.? Degregorio seems to be silent on the number needed to be competitive, dancing around the question. He has said he would leave it up to the members to decide how many . This is odd as it would have a league with an " interesting " funding disparity that could result in lopsided games and coming from him he is on record as saying the Atlantic Hockey needed 18 head count ( up from the original 10/11) to be competitive nationally.

I haven't heard anything either. Silence. DeGregorio mentioned 11/1 - so we are 50 days past that target.

Speaking with a D3 Assistant Coach, he had heard things are very rocky amongst the schools in question with how they want to proceed. Some head coaches from D2 don't want to form the league because they are aware they will likely be our a job once that D1 build up begins. Some would prefer to be D3...I would guess we could lose a program or two in the matter. If they don't join up, they have no where to play. D2 INDY isn't an option.

Would love to see this resolved soon.

 

[hawkhockey]

You have to love coaches that always say kids are first when applying for the job but put their own interests first in front of the players and college
I understand it but don t like it
Agree , they have to something
Money and commitment are the obstacles for many
We’ll see

 

[jerrynu26]

Some would prefer to be D3...I would guess we could lose a program or two in the matter. If they don't join up, they have no where to play. D2 INDY isn't an option.

Would love to see this resolved soon. [/QUOTE]

DIII isn't an option either, unless they can convince the rest of the sports to go down also.