State of D-II Hockey

[UCAlum32]

Some would prefer to be D3...I would guess we could lose a program or two in the matter. If they don't join up, they have no where to play. D2 INDY isn't an option.

Would love to see this resolved soon.

DIII isn't an option either, unless they can convince the rest of the sports to go down also.[/QUOTE]

I don't think a D3 move is whole unthinkable look at Hartford budgets for small liberal art schools are getting tighter might see this happen in a few more places.

 

[SNHUPenman]

Some of these schools, D3 may be the best place for ALL sports. OR what I think may be more likely is some may drop the sport.

I think for SNHU - either they play up in the new conference or they eliminate the program. Moving to D3 makes no sense for their entire sports platform.

 

[WIrinkrat]

You have to love coaches that always say kids are first when applying for the job but put their own interests first in front of the players and college
I understand it but don t like it
Agree , they have to something
Money and commitment are the obstacles for many
We’ll see

Perhaps they are putting their players first? See: Sanders, Deion. Would be naive to think that a team moving up to D1 would not result in a good portion of the group being replaced over the next season or two.

Or perhaps it has nothing to do at all with the fear of being replaced because many of the schools involved don't have the financial resources to all the sudden go out and hire big name coaches at 4x the salary so maybe it's just a matter of the ability to be competitive where they are and having a better feel for where they can find success as opposed to hockey administrators at these schools who quite frequently know little to nothing about the landscape of the sport

 

[JSicedog]

Some of these schools, D3 may be the best place for ALL sports. OR what I think may be more likely is some may drop the sport.

I think for SNHU - either they play up in the new conference or they eliminate the program. Moving to D3 makes no sense for their entire sports platform.

I can't imagine any of the D2s would voluntarily move their entire sports platform D3. Genuinely curious, what makes SNHU too prestigious for the D3 level?

 

[SNHUPenman]

I can't imagine any of the D2s would voluntarily move their entire sports platform D3. Genuinely curious, what makes SNHU too prestigious for the D3 level?

Oh not prestigious at all. My thinking is with the amount they have invest in athletic facilities on campus plus their ability to complete regionally it would be stunning if they moved down. I don't believe costs are an issue. But I wouldn't be shocked if Saint Mike's for example moved down. More options within D3, maybe it makes them more competitive etc...certainly about identity and fit.

 

[Scott_TG]

Didn't St. Anselm try to reclassify down and then their alumni donors threatened to pull support and they re-committed to DII?

Or am I thinking of another school? I remember that happening within the last decade and I imagine a any DII school thinking of reclassifying down has to consider that battle into the equation...

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Didn't St. Anselm try to reclassify down and then their alumni donors threatened to pull support and they re-committed to DII?

Or am I thinking of another school? I remember that happening within the last decade and I imagine a any DII school thinking of reclassifying down has to consider that battle into the equation...

Funny, I too was trying to remember today which school did that. And I was leaning towards the same choice you made.

 

[hawkhockey]

St Michael’s has been trying for years to find a D3 league
St A’s applied to the Newmac league and was not accepted
some basketball and mostly football supporters were against the move to D3 but they , especially football , were not big donors
Hockey had the biggest alumni group and were the biggest donors and were supporters of D3
it was shot down because there was not an existing league for non hockey sports

 

[hawkhockey]

Ok, there was supposed to be something about a new "D1 " league on November 1, according to DeGregorio . th consultant to this proposed new league , which would be IMO, an attempt to create a new division in D1. Think IAA football.
Is this dead ? If not, anyone know what the holdup is ? For DII, they remain in limbo with no way to go .

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Ok, there was supposed to be something about a new "D1 " league on November 1, according to DeGregorio . th consultant to this proposed new league , which would be IMO, an attempt to create a new division in D1. Think IAA football.
Is this dead ? If not, anyone know what the holdup is ? For DII, they remain in limbo with no way to go .

From what I heard, not everyone could agree enough ... for now. So, though it's still being talked about, it's still in limbo. Probably why Utica continues to not announce anything yet.

It was not going to create a new division. A) that makes no sense for such a niche sport as hockey, and b) that would just put everyone in the same state they are now with DII hockey. The new league would be a D1 league and eventually have an AQ. Just like Atlantic Hockey.

 

[hawkhockey]

What I meant was that without agreed maximum funding, they keep pointing to the NEWHA as the paradigm, the new league will be D1 in name only.
The Atlantic Hockey tried with originally 10 scholarships, then 14, and in 2016 18 allowed head count scholarships.
The women's league only caps scholarships at the NCAA max at 18 but the league allows each team to decide how many they will give which is a D2 model.
That is what I meant by a Division within a division, where a true D1 gives 18 scholarships but a conference in the Division has different rules which to me is analogous to D1 and D1 AA football.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

What I meant was that without agreed maximum funding, they keep pointing to the NEWHA as the paradigm, the new league will be D1 in name only.
The Atlantic Hockey tried with originally 10 scholarships, then 14, and in 2016 18 allowed head count scholarships.
The women's league only caps scholarships at the NCAA max at 18 but the league allows each team to decide how many they will give which is a D2 model.
That is what I meant by a Division within a division, where a true D1 gives 18 scholarships but a conference in the Division has different rules which to me is analogous to D1 and D1 AA football.

But everybody plays in the same playoff pool, unlike football. So, I keep pushing back on this concept. If they want to set different rules, fine. The Ivy League gives no scholarships at all. Like you said, Atlantic Hockey played that role as well. But they are all eligible for the same thing, unlike football.

To clarify, I understand what you are saying. I just disagree with the analogy.

 

[Fishman'81]

But everybody plays in the same playoff pool, unlike football. So, I keep pushing back on this concept. If they want to set different rules, fine. The Ivy League gives no scholarships at all. Like you said, Atlantic Hockey played that role as well. But they are all eligible for the same thing, unlike football.

To clarify, I understand what you are saying. I just disagree with the analogy.

The Ivies give scholarships, they're just disguised as "grants in aid".

 

[JSicedog]

The Ivies give scholarships, they're just disguised as "grants in aid".

Every single D3 school gives "grants in aid" too. There are many loopholes. No one pays full boat to go to school anymore.

 

[hawkhockey]

The Ivies and many NESCAC do not offer merit scholarships or athletic scholarships.
Instead they will fully fund all demonstrated financial need .
A number of years ago Chris Drury passed on a number of Ivy League schools to go to BU on a full athletic scholarship, giving the reason that his brother Ted Drury went to Harvard and his father had to take out loans to pay for his education.
Not sure what the loopholes the Ivies use but my sense is if you can afford to pay something , you pay and they make up the rest.
A lot of D3 schools use merit money as a way to narrow the gap between what a student receives in FA and what the sticker price is for the school. Most often there is still a gap between what a student qualifies for in FA and what the school can afford to give in FA. Merit can make up for some but usually not all the difference resulting in a the need for a student l.oan
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