St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

[Muskieman]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Brian, I don't think this is the case at all. What is behind Union's rise to prominence is the same thing that was behind our rise in the late 80's....recruiting. In the late 80's when Joe was recruiting the classes of 88 and 89 which were truly the most dominating classes with five All-American's and Bakes being a sure fire sixth one if not injured, was just working his *** off to find and get great talent in. It's the same at Union. I have gone to a bunch of junior games in New England and very frequently I would see a smattering of assistant coaches at the games and then I would see Union / Providence head coach Nate Leaman there on Sunday's after weekend games, there on weekdays. I think their success is in large part due to him working his butt off and having an eye what to recruit for. His ability to get guys like Ghost, Carr, Bodie, etc. is a tribute to him. Ghost came out of prep and I don't know that very many people went after him but I'm sure they all wish they did now. What remains to be seen is if Union can stay on top with Bennett as the head coach. I think they will be good, but will drop off. That is the normal cycle in the ECAC where you see teams dominate for 2-4 years and then fade and get replaced by someone else.

Obviously, recruiting suffered at SLU in Joe's last two years with his health and Carvy / Hurley having to coach the team. Also, I think Bob Prier went after a different type of player than Carvy would. Bob P likes size a lot more. I don't know yet how to characterize Carvy's prototypical player but there seems to be an emphasis on puck moving, skilled defensemen and speedy, skilled forwards. I also think goaltending is a big factor and we really have not had a lights out goalie since Gusty. We have had guys that were good and stole big games, but a really consistent winner the game alone goalie...its been a while. Ackley was probably closest and he stole some games such as UNH and, I think, Wisco. You know it its also pure BS that we lost guys like Sexton and Nick Lappin to Clarkson and Brown. I can't explain their bad judgement!

Carvy's first class was last year. That was a very good class. There are 7-8 more coming in next year and Lough, Horn, Gluchowski, Hayton, Purmal are all going to be impact players. Last year was frustrating. We won big games. We had talent. I think the team lacked chemistry and I think there were a couple of guys who deserve the blame and they are gone. I am very optimistic about what I think our staff will be able to do. You won't find classier guys anywhere than Carvy, Hurley and Mayo. It's a tough landscape....you have schools like Yale and Harvard (although Harvard has had a rash of de-commits) that are doing an exceptional job recruiting. Q-Suck has got some key guys lined up such as Petruzulli and Smith, but at the same time, I strongly question Peckernold's ability to keep guys playing for him and some other dynamics. Right now, we have to solve Colgate who has put together a solid squad too.

I think it is time to be patient. There is coaching talent. The fact we had the #1 PP in the nation pretty much all year last year without a single drafted player on the roster is a tribute to coaching. Granted Greg Carey was a unique player thanks to his scoring ability, but what made the PP work was every bit as much a tribute to Bayreuther, Baker and Wick and Sweetman on the 2nd unit.

I was there with Carvy and Hurley. Carvy has an enormous brain and he knows how to sell Canton. Hurley is such a hard-worker and classy guy and has Joe Marsh like integrity. I am encouraged. Last season ****ed me off, but I think it was probably a learning experience for Carvy about how to deal with a certain type of player who is selfish and destroys chemistry. I think the process is there for us to improve and there are a lot of promising signs.

Finally, on Union, I really have no idea about their academic backgrounds, etc. I just think they worked hard at recruiting, found a few diamonds in the rough, and Bennett knows how to coach. They are effective in every zone, solid in every position, and are very well coached. I hope they slay both teams in Philly and keep the trophy with the newly emergent ECAC.

Agree 100% on the coaches...........we have a great staff. And, there are a lot of promising signs although my gut tells me #7 gets drafted in the 3rd or 4th round and leaves in June. Hope my gut is very wrong.

Truth be told, it always has been - and always will be - recruiting, recruiting, recruiting in any sport. I guess my question is - to which I'll never be able to get an answer - How does our recruiting budget stack up against our competition? Which leads to a second question - Are the SLU Board of Trustees, President, and AD (collectively, I'll refer to here as the "Culture") truly committed to fielding top-notch M & W Hockey teams year-after-year. The results on the scoreboard of late would indicate otherwise. My spin over 45 yrs. is that the Culture (as noted here), for the most part, is just happy that we are D-1. Just my honest opinion.

Great ideas being discussed here. I'd suggest that we partner somehow with Ft. Drum for any events in Watertown. Really like the "Drop the Puck" idea.

Last season ******Ed me off like no other. Bottom line IMO is that a chemistry issue(s) killed us. We had a Hobey Hat Trick finalist and a league Co-Rookie of the Year, but went 9-17-2 in our last 28 games with a very healthy roster. Something was missing and it was simple IMO - too many guys worried about their stats. which resulted in very weak puck support (see PK, or lack thereof) and losses. The coaches will fix that in a hurry.

GO UNION - BEAT BC!

 

[Muskieman]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Nice article on Union. I hope they win it all:


Union Hockey Team Disdains Underdog Tag Even With Financial Gap


By Eben Novy-Williams Apr 10, 2014 12:37 PM ET


Union College hockey coach Rick Bennett said he doesn’t think the third smallest school in college hockey’s top division is an underdog as it enters its second Frozen Four in the past three years.

So when choosing a movie to show on Union’s four-hour bus ride to today’s national semifinals, Bennett skipped the longshot narrative offered by “Rocky,” in which an unknown boxer goes toe-to-toe with the champion, content to have avoided a knockout. Instead Bennett screened “Rocky II,” where the boxer meets the same opponent on more equal footing. And wins.

“This team embodies that,” Bennett said yesterday of the movie choice. “It has a lot of heart.”

Union is hoping to follow a similar script in its own Frozen Four sequel. Two years after the upstart Dutchmen lost to Ferris State of Michigan in their first semifinals appearance, Union enters today’s meeting against Boston College -- in Rocky’s hometown of Philadelphia -- riding a 15-game unbeaten streak, alone atop the USCHO.com national rankings.

Historically and financially, the gap between the two programs is wide. The Eagles have almost three times as many Frozen Four appearances (24) as Union has winning seasons in college hockey’s top division (nine).

Union spends about $676,000 annually on its men’s hockey team, Athletic Director Jim McLaughlin said. In the fiscal year ended June 2013, the three other semifinalists spent $3.25 million (BC), $2.68 million (North Dakota), and $2.31 million (Minnesota), according to the U.S. Department of Education.

“I knew that we had a great opportunity with hockey with the coaches we had in place,” McLaughlin said in a telephone interview. “If we could just get additional resources and support for the program, I knew we could be successful.”

More Wins

In the past five years, as Union steadily increased its win total, revenue from ticket sales at the Schenectady, New York, school’s 2,054-seat Messa Rink rose more than 75 percent, to $180,614. Marketing and sponsorship revenue from the program increased 82 percent, to $86,490.

The liberal arts school has an undergraduate enrollment of about 2,200, third lowest of the 59 schools in hockey’s Division I. Similar to Ivy League athletic programs, Union offers no athletic scholarships, only need-based financial aid.

McLaughlin, who has worked in the athletic departments at both Princeton and Brown universities, said another part of the program’s financial growth came from the Garnet Blades, a fundraising group comprised of former players and fans formed during the 2000-01 season. The group donated just under $10,000 in its inaugural year following a golf event, and is now raising around $175,000 annually.

Boosters President

Garnet Blades president Tim Meigher, a 1975 Union graduate, said in a telephone interview that membership has more than tripled to 220 members, in the past five years.

“Every year we just seem to find a way to make the golf event a little bigger, and we’ve solicited non-golfers to become members and support the program,” Meigher, who lives near Albany, New York, said in a telephone interview. “It’s an effort to supplement what the school can do and give the coaches a little cushion to do some things that they couldn’t always get budgeted for.”

The group’s growth has enabled the Dutchmen to travel more often to road games in the Midwest. It’s also increased their recruiting presence in those same areas, home of elite high school and junior league talent.

Unlike men’s hockey programs at bigger schools such as Minnesota -- whose arena could hold the entire Union student body almost five times over -- the Dutchmen do not produce revenue that can be used for Union’s other 25 programs, which outside of women’s hockey all compete at the Division III level. McLaughlin said the athletic department receives about $4 million in support from the school, about three percent of the total college budget, to meet its $5 million in expenses.

Conditioning Facility

The hockey team’s increased ticket sales, sponsorships and donations have helped the rest of the department in other ways. On the back of that revenue growth the school in the past few years has spent about $750,000 on a new strength and conditioning facility at Messa and the athletic department’s first full-time strength coach. McLaughlin said all the other sports programs use the facilities.

“That has been a difference-maker,” he said. “It’s not necessarily the norm in the Division III world to have full-time strength and conditioning staff and facility dedicated solely to the varsity athletes”.

Division I

Union began competing as a Division-I hockey program in 1991 (MY NOTE: Not true, see Ned Harkness), and had a winning record in two of its first 16 seasons. The program has advanced to the past four NCAA tournaments, including that semifinals loss in 2012.

The team is led by forward Daniel Carr and defenseman Shayne Gostisbehere, a finalist for the Hobey Baker Award as college hockey’s top player and a 2012 draft pick of the National Hockey League’s Philadelphia Flyers. Gostisbehere is the only NHL draft pick on the Union team; Boston College has 10.

Those numbers show the “Rocky” narrative, not coach Bennett’s preferred script from “Rocky II.”

“Our first time to the Frozen Four we were just happy to be there,” Gostisbehere said yesterday. “It didn’t end up our way, but this year’s more of a business approach here. We’re just looking to do some damage better than we did.

 

[Spaceman]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Nice article on Union. I hope they win it all:

Union Hockey Team Disdains Underdog Tag Even With Financial Gap

No reason this can't be SLU's future either. In fact, we were on the cusp of this in the early 2000's.

 

[Kepler]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Union began competing as a Division-I hockey program in 1991 (MY NOTE: Not true, see Ned Harkness)

It actually is true. Here are the only seasons where Union is officially recognized as playing D-1 (or its predecessor) hockey. The Harkness-coached teams of 1975-76 through 1977-78 were D-3 NESCAC.

 

[Spaceman]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Congrats to Matt Carey for scoring his first NHL goal tonight in only his second career game. Do the Saints proud in the Big Show!

 

[critsports]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Congrats to Matt Carey for scoring his first NHL goal tonight in only his second career game. Do the Saints proud in the Big Show!

You mean........ "Matt we hardly knew ye Carey?"

 

[Spaceman]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

So back to marketing talk...

A few additional thoughts I had would be for the school to survey season ticket holders, students and general admission purchasers. It's important to know what the fans like and dislike and see how you can improve the overall experience. This can be done pretty easily online. Along those lines, I would think the team could offer partial season ticket and flex packages as well. The more flexible you are for folks, the more people you can rope into games.

While professional teams have been doing the above suggestions for years now, you are starting to see it at the college level as well.

Any additional thoughts?

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

So back to marketing talk...

A few additional thoughts I had would be for the school to survey season ticket holders, students and general admission purchasers. It's important to know what the fans like and dislike and see how you can improve the overall experience. This can be done pretty easily online. Along those lines, I would think the team could offer partial season ticket and flex packages as well. The more flexible you are for folks, the more people you can rope into games.

While professional teams have been doing the above suggestions for years now, you are starting to see it at the college level as well.

Any additional thoughts?

I think we can solve attendance woes by selling booze and firing Tom Budd. Seriously, booze can't hurt. Considering students, faculty and staff all get in free, I really don't think the issue is ticket packages. You know, one of the best yearly home advantages is when we play at Harvard. I really think SLU should push for more NC games in Boston and NYC area. I think short of having a championship team, there are too many factors against large home crowds.

 

[Spaceman]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

I think we can solve attendance woes by selling booze and firing Tom Budd.

What's the issue with Tom Budd???

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

What's the issue with Tom Budd???

He totally sucks energy from the building and only does the announcing because his voice double Ned Flanders is too buys making episodes of the Simpsons. Also, he still can't get names right for SLU players that have been there for four years. I almost wanted Gostisbehere to score on us so it would give him a siezure. No, I mean he is a nice enough guy, but I really can't stand all of the announcements about crowd control and behavior modification. Go to a USHL game in Lincoln, Nebraska some time....they are crazy. The fans are having fun, they are hanging over the boards, etc. Granted they serve beer, there is fighting and concessions rock it with BBQ and all kinds of good things to eat, but there has to be more to get the fans involved in the game even if it is rude, expletive laced chants, rubber chickens, or whatever it takes. SLU hockey games are SOOO tame it feels more like Sunday church than a hockey game at times. I am not saying don't keep it classy, but I am saying we need more than a 50/50, a puck toss, and any excitement coming from the visitors section. Appleton is NOT intimidating and one reason why is Ned Flanders giving the "don't yell at refs shpiel....PA announcers should get people fired up, not throw a damp towel along with a butchered player name every five minutes.

Starting for the Saints, from lub-lay-ahn-ee, Slah-veeen-ia, Zeeeeeeeeega Peeeeetaaaack. When the lineup chart says Geeega Petaaaach

 

[Kepler]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Appleton is NOT intimidating and one reason why is Ned Flanders giving the "don't yell at refs shpiel....PA announcers should get people fired up, not throw a damp towel

I couldn't disagree more. Lynah is intimidating and it doesn't come from a forced WWF PA style. Starr does that and it's not intimidating, it makes the place seem like Chuck E. Cheese.

Please don't turn Appleton into a clown show.

The way the fans are enforced is a school decision, and it can definitely go overboard. We have had cycles of fascism and anarchy over the years, as the administration responds to successive calls for "Won't Somebody Think of the Children?!" followed by "The Ushers Are Waterboarding Entire Rows." There's a happy medium where the students can fight for their right to party and Betty Sue Townie's precious 4-year old isn't yelling "the ref fucks sheep" at Thanksgiving dinner.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

I couldn't disagree more. Lynah is intimidating and it doesn't come from a forced WWF PA style. Starr does that and it's not intimidating, it makes the place seem like Chuck E. Cheese.

Please don't turn Appleton into a clown show.

The way the fans are enforced is a school decision, and it can definitely go overboard. We have had cycles of fascism and anarchy over the years, as the administration responds to successive calls for "Won't Somebody Think of the Children?!" followed by "The Ushers Are Waterboarding Entire Rows." There's a happy medium where the students can fight for their right to party and Betty Sue Townie's precious 4-year old isn't yelling "the ref fucks sheep" at Thanksgiving dinner.

Lol. How many times at Cornell do they make announcements about throwing Newspaper on the ice. I was half joking when I brought this up, but Appleton is way too extreme. It's like Lawrence Welk. I think SLU needs to be looking for some classy ways to add energy. The only games where that energy consistently is present are Clarkson games and, honestly, more than half comes from their band and fans.

Of course, the one lasting memory I have of it being too far the other way was Don Vaughan yelling down from the press box in 85-86 in a 6-5 OT win against Clarkson after Mike Hurlbut took a retaliation penalty in the third. The look on the faces of the folks in the President's contingent still make me laugh to this day. It was just so wrong, it was right.

 

[Muskieman]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

I believe the Men's Banquet was held 4/5 and the Women's Banquet was held on 4/12. Any updates about both events would be appreciated.

As for Appleton, one change that should be made is to place opposing teams' bands as far away from our Student Section as possible. Yeah, it's nice to be an accommodating host - BUT giving said bands some of the best seats in the house and allowing them to completely drown out our Student Section is just plain stupid. Duh?

 

[Muskieman]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

It actually is true. Here are the only seasons where Union is officially recognized as playing D-1 (or its predecessor) hockey. The Harkness-coached teams of 1975-76 through 1977-78 were D-3 NESCAC.

You are correct on this.

As an aside, Union is now 7-2 in NCAA D-1 games; SLU is 5-26. That just isn't fair - in particular for us SLU fans who are older farts.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

I believe the Men's Banquet was held 4/5 and the Women's Banquet was held on 4/12. Any updates about both events would be appreciated.

As for Appleton, one change that should be made is to place opposing teams' bands as far away from our Student Section as possible. Yeah, it's nice to be an accommodating host - BUT giving said bands some of the best seats in the house and allowing them to completely drown out our Student Section is just plain stupid. Duh?

Look here Brian for the Men:

http://www.saintsathletics.com/news/2014/4/7/MHOCKEY_0407145258.aspx

No real surprises...

MVP - Greg Carey
Jinx Doyle - Essery
Coaches Award - Wick
McGeough Award - Baker
Rookie - Bayreuther
Perserverence - Austin & Wenny
7th Player - Bruckel
Most Improved - Hagen
Brian McFarlane Award - Raley

I think these were all pretty obvious choices.

No mention of who the other captains are other than Hughes, but with such a small class for the Juniors and Sophomores I'm guessing Martin, Doherty and / or ......

I have to say, I am sorry to see Matt Raley go. To me, these guys are what it is all about. Walk-ons who both earned scholie money I believe, and both excellent students and hard working kids. What they lack in talent, they make up for in other ways.

Don't know when the schedule will be released but it is a good one.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

I believe the Men's Banquet was held 4/5 and the Women's Banquet was held on 4/12. Any updates about both events would be appreciated.

As for Appleton, one change that should be made is to place opposing teams' bands as far away from our Student Section as possible. Yeah, it's nice to be an accommodating host - BUT giving said bands some of the best seats in the house and allowing them to completely drown out our Student Section is just plain stupid. Duh?

Yeah, I'd personally stick them in the stairwell to the northwest corner of Appleton. If they have to have seats, put them in the end section down low or up high above the entrance to Appleton. I'd put visiting compts in the few rows behind the visitors bench and expand the student section to the top rows behind the bench. Hospitable / Smospitable!! Cornell puts visitors in the crappiest 'O' section, RPI puts them behind beams, Harvard is generally similar to SLU, it does bother me that some of the best seats at Appleton are off limits to students and general admission.

 

[drshoen]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Yeah, I'd personally stick them in the stairwell to the northwest corner of Appleton. If they have to have seats, put them in the end section down low or up high above the entrance to Appleton. I'd put visiting compts in the few rows behind the visitors bench and expand the student section to the top rows behind the bench. Hospitable / Smospitable!! Cornell puts visitors in the crappiest 'O' section, RPI puts them behind beams, Harvard is generally similar to SLU, it does bother me that some of the best seats at Appleton are off limits to students and general admission.

In the late 80's, this is where opposing bands used to be at Appleton. I remember being crammed into the top two rows in the corner to the goalie's left. I also remember Marty D'Orsonnes scoring for Clarkson with :03 on the clock to win 4-3, but that's a story for a different thread.

 

[Saints#1]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Lol. How many times at Cornell do they make announcements about throwing Newspaper on the ice. I was half joking when I brought this up, but Appleton is way too extreme. It's like Lawrence Welk. I think SLU needs to be looking for some classy ways to add energy. The only games where that energy consistently is present are Clarkson games and, honestly, more than half comes from their band and fans.

Of course, the one lasting memory I have of it being too far the other way was Don Vaughan yelling down from the press box in 85-86 in a 6-5 OT win against Clarkson after Mike Hurlbut took a retaliation penalty in the third. The look on the faces of the folks in the President's contingent still make me laugh to this day. It was just so wrong, it was right.

Got6, I almost always agree with you on everything, but this subject I couldn't disagree more! When is the last time you have actually been to Appleton??? You're making it sound like the late 90's, when the team was struggling and so was the fan base. Your statement that the Clarkson band and fans bringing more than half of the energy leads me to believe you haven't frequented the SLU/Clarkson games at Appleton in years. SLU has restricted the number of members the Clarkson pep band are allowed to bring to 25 and it has made them irrelevant at Appleton ever since, which was much needed since those days back in the 90's. Plus, my opinion on this subject isn't just from being a homer fan, but from someone who has been to every single game since the early 90's. I have seen the ups and downs and the many changes to Appleton. Sometimes the energy is lacking a bit, but it's nowhere near the extreme that you made it appear here and 100% completely opposite of how you described the SLU/Clarkson games at Appleton.

 

[drshoen]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Got6, I almost always agree with you on everything, but this subject I couldn't disagree more! When is the last time you have actually been to Appleton??? You're making it sound like the late 90's, when the team was struggling and so was the fan base. Your statement that the Clarkson band and fans bringing more than half of the energy leads me to believe you haven't frequented the SLU/Clarkson games at Appleton in years. SLU has restricted the number of members the Clarkson pep band are allowed to bring to 25 and it has made them irrelevant at Appleton ever since, which was much needed since those days back in the 90's. Plus, my opinion on this subject isn't just from being a homer fan, but from someone who has been to every single game since the early 90's. I have seen the ups and downs and the many changes to Appleton. Sometimes the energy is lacking a bit, but it's nowhere near the extreme that you made it appear here and 100% completely opposite of how you described the SLU/Clarkson games at Appleton.

IIRC, the 25-person limit for the opposing band has been in place longer than the 90s; the 1989 game (the game I described earlier today) was limited to 25.

 

[hockeyplayer1015]

IIRC, the 25-person limit for the opposing band has been in place longer than the 90s; the 1989 game (the game I described earlier today) was limited to 25.

Yep, pretty sure that's a standard rule either by NCAA or ECAC.