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St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

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Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Now that we are in the off season and can't talk about weekend games, let's try to rack our brains on another subject... It's been my observation over the last ten years that there has been a slow decline of attendance at Appleton Arena. With the rise of the internet and other entertainment options for people, St. Lawrence isn't the only entity facing this issue. Winning and losing also play a role as well, as there is no better way to increase attendance than winning.

My question to readers here, what are some of your ideas to market the hockey program to increase the fan base? With the many readers here, I'm sure there might be a few worth while ideas for people to suggest. So what are your out of the box, low cost or no cost ideas?

If schedules permit, I'd go with an extra OOC game or two against Clarkson each season with either or both game played on a weekend(s) and the venue rotated between Appleton and Cheel each season if only 1 OOC game is played. Also, I'd consult Union and find out what steps they've taken the past ten or so years to become a powerhouse and now are filling their rink to capacity. Other ideas I have are not low or no cost - but include paving the parking lot to the west of Appleton and installing a 4- way and HD scoreboard with replay capabilities. I think that the latter may already be planned.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Now that we are in the off season and can't talk about weekend games, let's try to rack our brains on another subject... It's been my observation over the last ten years that there has been a slow decline of attendance at Appleton Arena. With the rise of the internet and other entertainment options for people, St. Lawrence isn't the only entity facing this issue. Winning and losing also play a role as well, as there is no better way to increase attendance than winning.

My question to readers here, what are some of your ideas to market the hockey program to increase the fan base? With the many readers here, I'm sure there might be a few worth while ideas for people to suggest. So what are your out of the box, low cost or no cost ideas?

Well, I think the #1 think is the simplest one but also the hardest one....Which is scheduling home games for when students are there and not on break or tied up in rush / pledge activities. It may be as simple of a tweak as just scheduling some weeknight OOC games, or trying to schedule Oct Games at home and December / January games on the road. I am not in favor of certain other things other than building a championship team that people want to watch. Attendance in 1987-1988 was a priority for everyone because it was fun, and we won all the time. Cripes, last year we seemed to lose at home all the time too...that has to change. How did Union get so good....recruiting. Period. Nate Leaman is a great coach. He built Union and recruited their Junior and Senior classes which are excellent. He went to Providence and built a winner there and schooled Peckernold and Q-Peck in the NCAA's with a team that probably had inferior talent. Carvy will get us there. It will take time. So, I guess the number 1 and 2 things that can be done are be patient and win at home.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Well, I think the #1 think is the simplest one but also the hardest one....Which is scheduling home games for when students are there and not on break or tied up in rush / pledge activities. It may be as simple of a tweak as just scheduling some weeknight OOC games, or trying to schedule Oct Games at home and December / January games on the road. I am not in favor of certain other things other than building a championship team that people want to watch. Attendance in 1987-1988 was a priority for everyone because it was fun, and we won all the time. Cripes, last year we seemed to lose at home all the time too...that has to change. How did Union get so good....recruiting. Period. Nate Leaman is a great coach. He built Union and recruited their Junior and Senior classes which are excellent. He went to Providence and built a winner there and schooled Peckernold and Q-Peck in the NCAA's with a team that probably had inferior talent. Carvy will get us there. It will take time. So, I guess the number 1 and 2 things that can be done are be patient and win at home.

Great post, lmao @ Peckernold :D
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

I believe that the Union Board of Trustees, about 7 or so years ago, adopted a policy where "free rides" were/are made available to academically gifted students residing in a foreign country. A quick check of Union's current roster shows nearly ten players from Canada. Much as this would ruffle the feathers of our old buddies John McCardell and Roger Hull, I'm left to wonder if some or all of the Canadian players are from well-to-do families and nonetheless got "free rides" anyways. The timing of Union's rise to prominence corresponds with my belief. So, when ESPN says Union doesn't give scholarships, I think otherwise. If my belief is true, a D-3 "playup" school sure got creative and the results of late bear that out.

Although we offer scholarships for hockey, I question whether SLU should consider a similar "foreign" policy. Adoption of such might improve our recruiting talent-wise for those not offered a hockey scholarship, and thereby bring more balance throughout our 26 or so person roster. I know that Spaceman is looking for low or no cost ideas, but wanted to throw this out for discussion. Would a "foreign" scholarship policy for the entire student body be of benefit to SLU? I think it would bring more diversity to SLU and would also benefit our hockey programs.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

I believe that the Union Board of Trustees, about 7 or so years ago, adopted a policy where "free rides" were/are made available to academically gifted students residing in a foreign country. A quick check of Union's current roster shows nearly ten players from Canada. Much as this would ruffle the feathers of our old buddies John McCardell and Roger Hull, I'm left to wonder if some or all of the Canadian players are from well-to-do families and nonetheless got "free rides" anyways. The timing of Union's rise to prominence corresponds with my belief. So, when ESPN says Union doesn't give scholarships, I think otherwise. If my belief is true, a D-3 "playup" school sure got creative and the results of late bear that out.

Although we offer scholarships for hockey, I question whether SLU should consider a similar "foreign" policy. Adoption of such might improve our recruiting talent-wise for those not offered a hockey scholarship, and thereby bring more balance throughout our 26 or so person roster. I know that Spaceman is looking for low or no cost ideas, but wanted to throw this out for discussion. Would a "foreign" scholarship policy for the entire student body be of benefit to SLU? I think it would bring more diversity to SLU and would also benefit our hockey programs.

Brian, I don't think this is the case at all. What is behind Union's rise to prominence is the same thing that was behind our rise in the late 80's....recruiting. In the late 80's when Joe was recruiting the classes of 88 and 89 which were truly the most dominating classes with five All-American's and Bakes being a sure fire sixth one if not injured, was just working his *** off to find and get great talent in. It's the same at Union. I have gone to a bunch of junior games in New England and very frequently I would see a smattering of assistant coaches at the games and then I would see Union / Providence head coach Nate Leaman there on Sunday's after weekend games, there on weekdays. I think their success is in large part due to him working his butt off and having an eye what to recruit for. His ability to get guys like Ghost, Carr, Bodie, etc. is a tribute to him. Ghost came out of prep and I don't know that very many people went after him but I'm sure they all wish they did now. What remains to be seen is if Union can stay on top with Bennett as the head coach. I think they will be good, but will drop off. That is the normal cycle in the ECAC where you see teams dominate for 2-4 years and then fade and get replaced by someone else.

Obviously, recruiting suffered at SLU in Joe's last two years with his health and Carvy / Hurley having to coach the team. Also, I think Bob Prier went after a different type of player than Carvy would. Bob P likes size a lot more. I don't know yet how to characterize Carvy's prototypical player but there seems to be an emphasis on puck moving, skilled defensemen and speedy, skilled forwards. I also think goaltending is a big factor and we really have not had a lights out goalie since Gusty. We have had guys that were good and stole big games, but a really consistent winner the game alone goalie...its been a while. Ackley was probably closest and he stole some games such as UNH and, I think, Wisco. You know it its also pure BS that we lost guys like Sexton and Nick Lappin to Clarkson and Brown. I can't explain their bad judgement!

Carvy's first class was last year. That was a very good class. There are 7-8 more coming in next year and Lough, Horn, Gluchowski, Hayton, Purmal are all going to be impact players. Last year was frustrating. We won big games. We had talent. I think the team lacked chemistry and I think there were a couple of guys who deserve the blame and they are gone. I am very optimistic about what I think our staff will be able to do. You won't find classier guys anywhere than Carvy, Hurley and Mayo. It's a tough landscape....you have schools like Yale and Harvard (although Harvard has had a rash of de-commits) that are doing an exceptional job recruiting. Q-Suck has got some key guys lined up such as Petruzulli and Smith, but at the same time, I strongly question Peckernold's ability to keep guys playing for him and some other dynamics. Right now, we have to solve Colgate who has put together a solid squad too.

I think it is time to be patient. There is coaching talent. The fact we had the #1 PP in the nation pretty much all year last year without a single drafted player on the roster is a tribute to coaching. Granted Greg Carey was a unique player thanks to his scoring ability, but what made the PP work was every bit as much a tribute to Bayreuther, Baker and Wick and Sweetman on the 2nd unit.

I was there with Carvy and Hurley. Carvy has an enormous brain and he knows how to sell Canton. Hurley is such a hard-worker and classy guy and has Joe Marsh like integrity. I am encouraged. Last season ****ed me off, but I think it was probably a learning experience for Carvy about how to deal with a certain type of player who is selfish and destroys chemistry. I think the process is there for us to improve and there are a lot of promising signs.

Finally, on Union, I really have no idea about their academic backgrounds, etc. I just think they worked hard at recruiting, found a few diamonds in the rough, and Bennett knows how to coach. They are effective in every zone, solid in every position, and are very well coached. I hope they slay both teams in Philly and keep the trophy with the newly emergent ECAC.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

For Union College hockey, success on the ice is translating to ticket sales
by Megan Rogers
Albany Business Review

The men's hockey team at Union College has been increasingly successful in the past few years, whether it's on the ice or in the growing revenue from ticket sales, marketing and sponsorships.
The men’s ice hockey team at Union College is the top seed in the NCAA East Regional tournament, which begins this afternoon. The team recently won its third-straight ECAC hockey tournament title and is making its fourth-straight NCAA tournament appearance. Revenue from ticket sales, marketing and sponsorships increased by more than $100,000 between the 2010-11 season and the 2013-14 season.
The total revenue for the current season is $267,106, though that number is expected to increase before the end of the season.

http://www.bizjournals.com/albany/n...ion-college-hockey-success-on-the-ice-is.html
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Gavin Bayreuther has moved up to #48 for North American skaters in the final NHL CS rankings. I believe he was around #115 in December. Very impressive jump.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Yes, and the link is here: http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftprospectbrowse.htm

So that should get him drafted this summer in the 3rd or 4th round correct?

Well, hard to tell because you have the Euros as well, and I certainly don't know how well their ranked skaters match up with the NA skaters. Is Euro skater #40 comparable to NA skater #40? Better, or worse?

I'll go out on a limb and say he gets drafted in the 3rd round. Hopefully to Detroit ;)
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Well, hard to tell because you have the Euros as well, and I certainly don't know how well their ranked skaters match up with the NA skaters. Is Euro skater #40 comparable to NA skater #40? Better, or worse?

I'll go out on a limb and say he gets drafted in the 3rd round. Hopefully to BOSTON ;)

Fixed your post so I can hold down my lunch.

It's between 2nd and 4th, likely 3rd assuming someone doesn't blow off the rankings and snatch him earlier. I'd say he fits with a team like Chicago or a Western team the best, but who knows.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Having grown up in Canton and living in Canton for the better part of the past 30+ years, I can tell you one thing for certain...Canton supports winners, this goes for SLU, Canton Tech and the high school athletic teams. If you are winning people will come out in droves to support the teams, but if you are losing you aren't gonna have support from the local community. Appleton crowds easily show this from no crowds in the early 80's to a full house every night from the mid 80's-early 90's. Once SLU had a down swing in the mid 90's crowds disappeared again. The late 90's-early 00's run saw the crowds reappear. Sad fact is SLU just hasn't won enough in a long time now to pack Appleton on a nightly basis.

Easy fix as far as attendance at Appleton is win more games and put a much better product on the ice. Much, much harder fix as far as winning more games and putting a better product on the ice is up to the coaches and administration at SLU.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

I completely agree about winning have the biggest impact on attendance and that we have the coaching staff to get that done.

One thing that Got 6 has mentioned before is how he hated to see non-conference games in late December and early January compared to playing in a tournament. Taking a quick look at SLU's non-conference home games over the last few year's in early January, when the students are gone, does show a significant attendance drop off.

DateOpponentAttendence
1/7/2014
Vermont851
1/5/2013
RIT1,046
1/4/2013RIT1,126
1/7/2012MNS1,182
1/6/2012MNS1,042

I believe Got 6 advocated playing in a holiday tournament if possible during this time frame.

Another thought I had, was try to expand the fan base and brand of St. Lawrence hockey during this time. Since Appleton will be at least half empty or more so with a non-conference games in early January, where could or what could we do if we are not in a holiday tourney?

One thought I had was to play a non-conference game, during this period, at Watertown's Municipal Arena. The place seats 2,000 people and is the largest city in the North Country. Have a major sponsor for the game such as the Watertown Daily Times or WWNY-TV. The game would sell out as there are many SLU alumni around Watertown and frankly you could pick up additional fans who would begin to make the drive to Canton for some games, which is only an hour away.

It seems like a win-win to me. You could make more money, have and alumni event and push SLU hockey as the North Country's team.

I have a few other ideas, but let me roll them out one at a time and get people's feed back. Who knows if we have a good one, maybe the school will look into it.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

I just read where Ray Shero's son has committed to BC. Son of a gun, why aren't we getting Alum's kids????
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15


These kinds of things are truly disappointing. Why is SLU good enough for the fathers but not the son's? We know Ray is a big supporter of our program and he helps in many ways with the resources he has both from the Pens and himself. Were we even on his son's radar? Is it a situation like Lappin where we really didn't recruit him hard?

As to all the marketing ideas I think Tayt has some good one's and I like the Watertown idea. But you can't compare what SLU or Clarkson or Colgate can and should do compared to a Union or Quinnipiac or Brown. Good on Q and U for filling up their arenas and shame on Brown for not doing so. But the first thing about marketing and sales is to know your audience (market). Relatively speaking...there is no market in Canton, Potsdam or Hamilton when you compare it to a Schenectady/Albany, Hamden/New Haven or Providence. You are talking major metro area's and comparing it to the North Country where there is little to no population density. A different challenge altogether.

Winning and winning at home will fix most of the ills.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

These kinds of things are truly disappointing. Why is SLU good enough for the fathers but not the son's? We know Ray is a big supporter of our program and he helps in many ways with the resources he has both from the Pens and himself. Were we even on his son's radar? Is it a situation like Lappin where we really didn't recruit him hard?

As to all the marketing ideas I think Tayt has some good one's and I like the Watertown idea. But you can't compare what SLU or Clarkson or Colgate can and should do compared to a Union or Quinnipiac or Brown. Good on Q and U for filling up their arenas and shame on Brown for not doing so. But the first thing about marketing and sales is to know your audience (market). Relatively speaking...there is no market in Canton, Potsdam or Hamilton when you compare it to a Schenectady/Albany, Hamden/New Haven or Providence. You are talking major metro area's and comparing it to the North Country where there is little to no population density. A different challenge altogether.

Winning and winning at home will fix most of the ills.

Agree with all of this. Yes, it's extremely disappointing. I don't know the story behind what happened here. Maybe Ray working with Randy Sexton as his assistant GM rubbed off on him. We aren't going to win every alum's kids. Some want to be in cities, or go to big schools or pursue a specific degree that SLU doesn't offer. Maybe he wants to be a nurse? BUT, we shouldn't lose all of them either. This is one where Ray might have leaned on his son more if Joe was still coach. Ray and Joe were tight going back to New Hampton days. At least I can understand this one. If he goes to BC he has a good shot of going to a Frozen Four at least once and maybe winning it. It's not like going to Brown as Lappin did where there is a better chance of lasting Israeli / Iranian peace or Sexton going to our rival school. On the other hand, York has got to be considering retirement and who knows after that. I am not sure what BU's future really is now with Jack Parker gone.

I like Tayt's idea of a game in Watertown or Syracuse but especially Watertown because of the Fort Drum population. It can't hurt. Other options are 1000 Islands and/or going back to Lake Placid for NC or Tourney games. I wonder if SLU shouldn't look at busses between Ft. Drum and Canton for some games. But alas, I agree with Goldenbear that the #1 thing that will fill Appleton is a winner. When even the die hard regulars on USCHO couldn't stand to watch some of the games this season, how can any of us blame people around Canton for not going. On the other hand, what bothers me is for a number of years Clarkson was below us but still got bigger crowds (apparently) at Cheel than we did. Yes, Potsdam is a bit bigger but who the **** wants to watch Clarkson! :eek::p
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

I like Tayt's idea of a game in Watertown or Syracuse but especially Watertown because of the Fort Drum population. It can't hurt. Other options are 1000 Islands and/or going back to Lake Placid for NC or Tourney games. I wonder if SLU shouldn't look at busses between Ft. Drum and Canton for some games. But alas, I agree with Goldenbear that the #1 thing that will fill Appleton is a winner. When even the die hard regulars on USCHO couldn't stand to watch some of the games this season, how can any of us blame people around Canton for not going. On the other hand, what bothers me is for a number of years Clarkson was below us but still got bigger crowds (apparently) at Cheel than we did. Yes, Potsdam is a bit bigger but who the **** wants to watch Clarkson! :eek::p

That's not very nice! :p
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

I just read where Ray Shero's son has committed to BC. Son of a gun, why aren't we getting Alum's kids????

On second thought, after surfing the web a bit, I am not convinced Chris Shero can help us or that he will play at BC. He had 15 points in 37 games. KUA had a player with 4 times that and he was one of the older kids too with a 95 birth date. On a team like that, you should be, at least, a point per game guy or be a role player like Burmaster will be for us. There are several guys at KUA on the NHL CSB radar but Shero is not one of them. Moreover, he is not that big at 5'10". Maybe it's as simple as he was trying to figure out where to go to school and preferred BC. Maybe York did Ray a favor after Ray has taken a bunch of touchholes from BC into the Penguins organizations! But after taking a closer look I can't believe this is a loss for SLU. True the name is nice and the loyalty is nice and Ray continues to be a very loyal SLU alum and a true class guy, but heaven forbid we go after a kid that has delusions of grandeur without the credentials to back it up.

Don't know what happened with this one, and don't care as I like all the guys we have for 2014, 2015 and 2016 lined up better. I am pretty sure Bailey Conger is about a point per game guy at Cushing as a 97 or 98 sophomore....that's the kid of kid we want. Ditto for Corriveau at Westminster.
 
Re: St. Lawrence Universckity: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Re: St. Lawrence Universckity: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Now that we are in the off season and can't talk about weekend games, let's try to rack our brains on another subject... It's been my observation over the last ten years that there has been a slow decline of attendance at Appleton Arena. With the rise of the internet and other entertainment options for people, St. Lawrence isn't the only entity facing this issue. Winning and losing also play a role as well, as there is no better way to increase attendance than winning.

My question to readers here, what are some of your ideas to market the hockey program to increase the fan base? With the many readers here, I'm sure there might be a few worth while ideas for people to suggest. So what are your out of the box, low cost or no cost ideas?

Every year my wife and I plus 2 other couples try to get to Canton for a hockey weekend. I have often thought it would be great to have a weekend devoted to the program, ie "Drop the Puck" weekend. Should be early in the season for good weather for those of us who have to travel distances, might include block of rooms a local motel, luncheon attended by the coaching staff and team, "behind the scene' tour of Appleton, presentation of the history of hockey at SLU, game tickets and post game reception - all to promote SLU hockey. Should not cost much just time and some imagination. GO SAINTS!
 
Re: St. Lawrence Universckity: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Re: St. Lawrence Universckity: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Every year my wife and I plus 2 other couples try to get to Canton for a hockey weekend. I have often thought it would be great to have a weekend devoted to the program, ie "Drop the Puck" weekend. Should be early in the season for good weather for those of us who have to travel distances, might include block of rooms a local motel, luncheon attended by the coaching staff and team, "behind the scene' tour of Appleton, presentation of the history of hockey at SLU, game tickets and post game reception - all to promote SLU hockey. Should not cost much just time and some imagination. GO SAINTS!

You know you actually raise a very salient point! The reason I don't go to more SLU games in Canton and tend to go watch the team on the road a lot more often is because rooms are so hard to come by in Canton. When you have both teams at the BW, or its football season, or there are other teams playing, its really hard to get a room. I used to try to get the schedule early and book rooms in advance but even then I didn't have complete success. I am not about to go to a game, have a few pops and then drive to Ogdensburg. Obviously, that issue is not going away anytime soon but its an issue. I propose we put opposing teams in Appleton Riding Arena or in revolutionary war style tents on the golf course, and leave the rooms for the alums and fans.
 
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